Thank you for asking this question, as it sent me off into researching how MSAA works. As it turns out, apparently MSAA literally works by performing parts of the rasterization process at a higher resolution than screen resolution, and thus appears to be rasterization rate limited:
The linear...
Isn't pixel fill rate a function of ROPs times clockspeed? I'm not sure how DSBR would affect it? Isn't the primary benefit of DSBR related to saving memory bandwidth?
True, but we do have B3D Suite results for pixel fill rate:
However, having done some research into the topic, doesn't the fact that Fiji performed relatively better at higher resolutions preclude it being ROP bound? If Vega was ROP bound, shouldn't its performance worsen relative to Pascal...
I wasn't disagreeing about their importance, I was asking whether it would be possible to evaluate if this was bottlenecking Vega's performance without front end bottlenecking issues confounding the results. Does MSAA performance not depend at all on geometry performance? If it doesn't then...
Aren't the ROPs at the back of the rendering pipeline? How can you effectively assess how much of a bottleneck having 64 ROPs is or isn't while the front end is still bottlenecked by being limited to 4 polygons per clock? Note, I'm not saying that 64 ROPs aren't a bottleneck, just that I don't...
Of course, there are a ton of other factors involved across all the games being used in benchmarking today. I'm certainly not expecting to be able to precisely correlate the geometry performance of games with their performance on Vega. Still, it strikes me as pretty suggestive that two games...
Sure, but that isn't related to the thing I'm trying to get an insight into. I'm interested in knowing the extent to which games near the bottom of the chart are very demanding of geometry performance and those near the top are not because I'm trying to investigate the extent to which Vega is...
Ignoring the continuing attempts to derail the discussion, would anyone happen to know if there is a way to tell which games that are commonly used for benchmarking are the most and least demanding of geometry performance (tessellation or otherwise)? In looking at this chart:
How many of the...
Sure, but that doesn't really address what the performance implications could be for Vega suddenly becoming much faster at polygon throughput and having tessellation performance at least on par with Pascal might be. Unigine Heaven is another benchmark that shows just how much Vega still...
Well, I can think of two games off the top of my head where Vega relatively underperforms which are known to use lots of tessellation: GTA V and Watch Dogs 2. Gameworks games in general have often been accused of deliberately using large amounts of tessellation to tank performance on AMD cards...
Well, with respect to primitive shaders that question amounts to asking what would be the performance implications for Vega of a significant increase in polygon throughput? If primitive shaders manage to achieve even half of the gains claimed in the whitepaper, you are talking about doubling...
I think this is pretty convincing evidence that Vega is severely bottlenecked at the moment, as the 8 additional CUs of Vega 64 are providing no additional performance whatsoever over Vega 56 with the same BIOS. Considering how much discussion there has been of Fiji being front end bottlenecked...
Your inability to understand that I said led them to confirm on the record, not led them to investigate, is your own issue.
It is quite obvious exactly what both you and Rifter intend to imply about the Vega whitepaper, and by extension about primitive shaders as described in the whitepaper...
I was not claiming that Ryan Smith and others looked into it as a result of seeing my posts about it it. I meant only what I said: that the discussion about it that I reignited led to finally getting some on the record confirmations of what the evidence I presented pointed to.
Excellent, so do...
Once again, do you have any evidence whatsoever to support your implicit claim that RTG is lying in the Vega whitepaper about primitive shaders existing or being capable of delivering even half of their claimed culled polygon throughput improvements? Do you have any evidence that RTG has...
Feel free to go read the thread on the Beyond 3D Forum for yourself here, where I started the argument about whether primitive shaders were or were not enabled in Vega's public drivers on page 57 that continued until Ryan Smith confirmed that they were not enabled in Vega's public drivers on...
The full text of his post reaches the exact opposite of what you assert, and you also concealed that he wasn't even aware that the feature wasn't enabled yet when he made that comment.
Interestingly enough, when RX Vega launched without substantively improved performance I started investigating...
First of all, you have selectively quoted Sebbi in such a fashion as to mislead readers of this thread as to the overall thrust of his comments, which concluded that Vega would very much benefit from improved polygon throughput, and secondly you omitted to inform anyone here that Sebbi made...
So your contention then is that RTG is simply lying in the whitepaper and that primitive shaders cannot even deliver half of the claimed improvement in culled geometry throughput? Because even half of the claimed benefits would mean literally doubling Vega's culled polygon throughput on an...
People have literally been talking about how Fiji was front end geometry bottlenecked for two years. Here is a just a small selection from this very forum:
Primitive shaders are directly and explicitly targeted at overcoming this 4 triangles per clock front end bottleneck by incorporating...
Providing good evidence that enabling NGG fast path in Vega drivers should provide a significant performance uplift is pretty straightforward: People have spent years talking about how Fiji was a fundamentally flawed GPU design that was severely front end bottlenecked, and that this is why it...
That retailer claims that AMD has increased the MSRP on the cards and that stand alone cards were only offered at launch. AMD has already stated on the record that both of those things are incorrect. AMD's first public statement about the matter confirms that they are restocking all launch SKUs...
Vega overclocks seem to do better when increasing power target and memory clocks but not increasing core clocks much. Increasing core clocks on Vega past a certain point on the current drivers starts to cause issues.
Joker Productions tested an undervolt and overclock and had his Vega 56...
From my--admittedly limited--understanding, the fact that Vega FE trades blows with a Quadro P6000 in Creo, Solidworks, and 3ds Max (according to Tom's Hardware) would seem to indicate that Vega shouldn't be geometry performance bound. Gamer's Nexus clock-for-clock Vega FE vs Fury testing also...
If RX Vega turns out to not be any faster at all than Vega FE, then pretty much the entirety of RTG needs to get fired. The scale of failure implied would be so enormous that I'm going to hold off judgement until I see actual independent benchmarks. This would also mean that the multiple reports...
I am forced to seriously question how recent the drivers in those leaked TimeSpy scores are, only because they have the air cooled Vega 64 at ~7,200 which basically identical to the 7,126 score achievable by an air cooled Vega FE. That doesn't seem to make much sense, as it would mean that the...
PCI-e's bandwidth is so much greater than the numbers being looked at here that it didn't even occur to me to consider whether the bandwidth bottleneck could lie outside the the HBM2 memory speed itself.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that in this case, unless you think it's impossible that RTG will fix the 20% memory bandwidth regression in Vega vs. Fiji as tested in Vega FE...
Now THIS is an interesting question, because it may help explain why Vega FE appears to have 20% less memory bandwidth than Fiji (!!!), and an even worse (!!!!) regression in effective texture bandwidth vs. Fiji:
I would think that it is not reasonable to suggest that RTG would have...
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