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  1. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Because there are many workloads that use a limited number of cores, it's rare to find a workload that can use 12 cores and stops there, it's more common to find a workload like games that can use 6 or 8 cores and not more, or workloads like Cinebench that can use tons of cores, like 32 for...

  2. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Yeah that would just be a renaming but the overall architecture remains the same.

  3. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Don't see much point in an Oryon-S core, keep in mind that ARM is serving many more markets, they need a super tiny core for using that in cheap TVs, Routers and what not. But it was a really bad core even in terms of efficiency, Oryon M is small enough, I see no point going lower. If they want...

  4. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Qualcomm is just pushing the M core way past its sweetspot, because its whole point is not more power efficiency but merely more MT performance in an area efficient manner. Apple E core on the other hand, and watching its architecture and area size, there is no way that it's so much slower than...

  5. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Much different performance points, though, one would have to compare power at the same performance or performance at the same power to get an idea.

  6. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Zen 5 in games was more like 3% not 5% on average. And the frequency increase doesn't scale in many games, because they are more cache and memory bound. So most likely we will have a true Zen5% instead of the current Zen5(3)%.

  7. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    In HWU testing, 7800X3D is already 20% faster than 285K, though, admittedly with RTX 4090. So unless the testing is radically different, this is really not good news for 9800X3D if these numbers are true. Many people expect like 10% gaming delta on average between 7800X3D and 9800X3D and that's...

  8. Discussion David Huang's SPEC results Intel64 vs. AMD64 vs. Apple M-series

    LPDDR is slower than non LP variants, even higher bandwidth LPDDR vs lower bandwidth DDR, close to 10%, for example 6900HS vs 7735U in laptops. So something to keep in mind when comparing M3 variants vs x86 desktop counterparts. On another note, Skymont looking really good here.

  9. Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    It's not really a TDP issue if Apple really wanted to do that, you just use a power limit and lower frequencies, just like AMD and Intel do with their Laptop parts, or does someone believe a 5800U or a 7840U can run at 4GHz in Cinebench MT if capped at 15W?

  10. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Power to performance was not the focus, it's just the only thing they can really market about them.

  11. Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    And it's a whole different product, in the sense that Strix Halo won't be a low power consumption chip in low load situations due to the use of chiplets, idle power will be bad.

  12. Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    The reason is simple, they have not touched the P core much all these years lol, not much to talk about.

  13. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    But all of that depends on how much cost HT or SMT adds? we know an E core is like 1/3 of a P core in space, how much is the area cost of HT/SMT? and the power efficiency and performance too of course. Only then it makes sense to compare. I've read it's about 5% of the P core area, though of...

  14. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I mean, there are plenty of tests out there that are not really benchmarks in the sense that only a score is shown, but tests where you can see time needed to render a video in software like Handbrake.

  15. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    You are doing the wrong comparisons, for example, you can compare Skymont with Oryon M, go check Spec2017 curves from Geekerwan. It's performing better than Skymont in both int and fp, but especially in fp the difference is huge, and it's smaller, I think Skymont is around 1.15 mm2 without L2...

  16. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    This is the first iteration of TSMC 3nm, N3B, the worst performing version of their 3nm. Please tell me what was the performance of Intel's first iteration of 14nm, 10nm, Intel 4? I mean, it sounds great seeing how high Intel chips can get to clock, until you realize how many refinements their...

  17. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    It would be nice first to know how much relative area SMT or HT has in a given core, before talking about its usefulness.

  18. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Yet Lion Cove is still bigger than a Zen 5 core! N3B is slightly better performance-power wise than N4P, at least in the low to mid curve. I've seen power numbers with Spec and yeah even at lower frequencies this thing is not good at all.

  19. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    There is a good chance that Apple E cores are heavily downclocked and way below their true potential. We don't know if they couldn't be up there with Oryon M at, say, 3.5GHz, and how bad their efficiency would get. But it's quite eye opening that Oryon M even when downclocked to match Apple E...

  20. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Yeah good luck with that in games lol

  21. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Do we know if X Elite can sustain 3.8GHz in Cinebench 2024? one thing is announced all core clock speed, another thing is if it's possible to sustain that in all workloads.

  22. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Nobody should have to tune anything in order to get good performance, at least better performance than the prior generation. You can do it, but it should never be a necessity.

  23. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    I think power would be increased more than that, look at the shape of the curve, for example in the fp test, going from 6 to 8W (33% increase) nets you 5%, maybe 6%? more performance. It's only getting worse if you overclock 5%. Of course, with binning it's another story, but as it stands, a 5%...

  24. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Much lower frequency, though. If Skymont in Lunar Lake was already less efficient than Lion Cove at the upper part of the performance power curve (Geekerwan), it is only getting worse with a 24% bump (3.7 to 4.6GHz) in E core frequency from 268v to 285K compared to a 14% frequency bump (5 to...

  25. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    I don't understand how do you guys would expect so much higher MT scores from Oryon, like >30% higher? Apple cores are more energy efficient. Apple P core is more efficient than Oryon P core, and Apple E core is more efficient than Oryon M core, when comparing both power at the same performance...

  26. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    E cores are good for stuffing many of them AND clocking them low so that efficiency is similar or slightly higher than P cores. We are talking 3-3.5GHz kind of low at maximum. Basically, they are a laptop type of core, efficient and cheap MT, coupled with at least two P core for smooth day to...

  27. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    E cores are less efficient than P cores at the upper part of the curve. Yes less efficient, not more or even equal, there is data out there that shows this, so on Desktop, they are worse for MT than P cores, another thing is that of course their much lower area allows Intel to stuff more of them.

  28. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Well, should be pretty simple, it's just not possible for Oryon to use all 8 cores at their maximum frequency or close to that, power consumption would just be insane. While Oryon M cores are much more powerful than Apple E cores, they also consume much, MUCH more power. Even when you downclock...

  29. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I've seen Geekbench 6 is roughly on par with 14900K in single core, correct? this looks at a wide range of workloads so it's more indicative of overall performance instead of Cinebench which is more of less rendering and that's it. All I miss is Spec, so I can definitely say it's barely an...

  30. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    I find the M core a bit disappointing, in terms of efficiency. Seems like P cores are much better for efficiency, I understand the main reason is for area savings but still. Even at the lower part of the curve, like at 1W, the P core is still more efficient than the M core.

  31. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    This seems to be the video:

  32. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Apparently another reviewer (S white database) got single core efficiency in Geekbench: Don't know how trustable it is, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. While Qualcomm leads in MT both in performance and efficiency, there is a discrepancy in core counts and performance of "small" cores, so...

  33. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Maybe, AMD said 25% smaller core, that's what I was basing it on: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-dishes-more-zen-5-details-compact-core-is-25-smaller-than-the-normal-core-new-soc-architecture-disclosed

  34. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Isn't Oryon-M the exact same architecture as Oryon-L? seems like being only 40% in size is a massive feat, when, for example, Zen 5c IIRC is 75% of Zen 5. What are the main differences that allow it to be so small compared to L version? is it just less L1 cache (but not even half, 128 vs 192)...

  35. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Qualcomm was probably using Geekbench 6.2 because in 6.3 Apple gets higher scores due to the use of SME in that version.

  36. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    Main thing I want to see is single core efficiency, as multi core efficiency is going to be better by simply having more cores and reducing frequency to raise efficiency.

  37. Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

    More efficient only when all cores are being used, though, and that's his point here, that almost nothing in the real world is going to leverage all these cores in mobile.

  38. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    One thing to be careful of is when leakers talk about 50% efficiency increase. They are talking about efficiency related to power consumption at the same performance, which is wayy higher and much easier to achieve than what average people assume efficiency relates to, which is performance at...

  39. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Not writing MTL off, mainly writing Redwood Cove off, P core is always the most important core, and it's just bad. Zen 5 will be an absolute bloodbath.

  40. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Geekerwan review: Seems the main issue is the P core, E core looks decent, 10% more performance at 10% lower power, maybe would be roughly 15% higher performance at same power. P core however is garbage, those last 200-300MHz are very expensive on 12th and 13th gen, equalizing performance by...
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