Normally I would agree, but this avenue to remove it by a local vote was preempted by state government, so I think the way it went down was appropriate civil disobedience.While I understand the emotion here, mob rule isn't the way to go about it and not how this should be handled. Decommission the statues and move them to a museum where their history can be appropriately contrasted to their oppression.
State lawmakers passed Senate Bill 22 in 2015. It stops the removal of monuments, including Confederate monuments, without the approval of the State Historical Commission.
Yeah, god forbid different groups of people in this country live under separate rules.
Do we need to do this? He's not stating his lack of concern about neo-Nazis, and the connection between statues to people being murdered is a pretty weak one (I had forgotten entirely that Charlottesville was originally about a statue). We can discuss things better when we're not making up each other's arguments for them.Remember that very fine Nazi that murdered a girl last year because he was angry that she wanted to take away his lovely statue?
Remember that?
Also, this statue in Chapel Hill was specifically erected on the spot where the sponsor pridefully whipped a black woman into a bloody mess. It was there for that exact reason.
Why doesn't any of this actually concern you?
Local ordinance were foreclosed by state law passed by Republicans to keep these statues in place. This kind of anarchy is the direct result. Of course it would be better if this was done properly and the statue, which does have historical and artistic value of commemorating a student who gave up his books to become cannon fodder in the fight for slavery. But this avenue was effectively blocked by state lawmakers.So...favoritism for causes you support then?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a dyed-in-the-wool “damned yankee” and proud of it...I don’t like or support what these statues represent, but this kind of anarchy is just the wrong way to deal with it. Petition to have them removed, pass local ordinances to get them moved, whatever...this shit was just wrong.
The statue had to come down. North Carolina Republicans in the state house decided how that was going to happen.The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head.
Local ordinance were foreclosed by state law passed by Republicans to keep these statues in place. This kind of anarchy is the direct result. Of course it would be better if this was done properly and the statue, which does have historical and artistic value of commemorating a student who gave up his books to become cannon fodder in the fight for slavery. But this avenue was effectively blocked by state lawmakers.
BTW, if there is any doubt for what purpose this statue was placed there, here is the dedication speech:
http://hgreen.people.ua.edu/transcription-carr-speech.html
The statue had to come down. North Carolina Republicans in the state house decided how that was going to happen.
As far as voting them out, Republicans foreclosed that one too with gerrymandering, and a Republican SCOTUS did nothing, so really hard to blame the students for bypassing this Republican BS and taking matters into their own hands.
And hopefully enough decent people are on juries to nullify all the charges in such cases. I know I would. When the state is in a moral hole it should stop digging.Hopefully they’re all prosecuted for the maximum number and severity crimes the state can find. If they feel so stronly about it, they should be willing to go to jail for their convictions.
Hopefully next is the gerrymandered Republican legislature gets some brains, repeals its idiotic law, and leaves it up to the local communities that have to live with these statues, instead of inflicting Jim Crow era statues of traitors who fought for slavery on communities who don't want them. Then hopefully these statues can be relocated to appropriate sites like Confederate cemeteries and museums. How does that sound?What’s next? Statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
I don't support mob rule generally, but this is really a ridiculous comparison.What’s next? Statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
Not a lot of tears were shed when the statue of Mussolini in Italy was toppled and I didn't hear you whinging that the statue of Saddam that was ripped down in Baghdad was not decommissioned and moved to a museum. So maybe you need to look inward and determine why your feelings about a confederate statue are different than your feelings for Mussolini or Saddam.
What’s next? Statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
This gets glossed over every time. I'll go out on a limb and say that exactly none of the people who are arguing that statues are history and history shouldn't be destroyed complained about the statues of Saddam being pulled down.
So...favoritism for causes you support then?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a dyed-in-the-wool “damned yankee” and proud of it...I don’t like or support what these statues represent, but this kind of anarchy is just the wrong way to deal with it. Petition to have them removed, pass local ordinances to get them moved, if state law prevents. Local ordinances, vote new state legislatures, whatever...this shit was just wrong.
I love everyone here who thinks this is acceptable. They find this behavior acceptable because these protests aren't near their house. If it were - they would be up in arms with the NIMBY.
This is simply uncivilized behavior that should never be encouraged. I'm not even here to talk about a statue or defend it - I'm specifically talking about uncivilized mob mentality groups that people here are actively encouraging. And the only reason is because they are in their safe suburbs away from such mobs. I sincerely hope that these mobs expand to your safe little white flight areas some day so they can do a 180 on all your posts here.
I have liberal friends who live in the Oakland area, and all they can do is roll their eyes as mobs go by all the time destroying property, causing traffic headaches, damaging other people's vehicles, and leaving trash everywhere on the ground.
Yeah, god forbid different groups of people in this country live under separate rules.
Do we need to do this? He's not stating his lack of concern about neo-Nazis, and the connection between statues to people being murdered is a pretty weak one (I had forgotten entirely that Charlottesville was originally about a statue). We can discuss things better when we're not making up each other's arguments for them.
I support taking these statues down for the reasons you stated given the intent of their placement.I don't support mob rule generally, but this is really a ridiculous comparison.
The confederate statues were installed for the specific purpose of projecting white power over other races. The statues are of traitors that took up arms against the country to protect the racism and profits of the rich. The statues are of people that cost America over 600,000 lives, and represent the murder of thousands more through slavery and Jim Crow era abuses.
The past should not be forgotten, but it also should not be paraded around as a highlight of American history and should not continue to be used as a weapon against minorities.
Republicans in the state have blocked all normal methods for removal of these racist statues and as more and more people learn the real history of them the more people want them gone. So while I don't support vandalism, I will shed about the same amount of tears as a Hitler or Saddam statue being torn down. The heroizing of the confederacy in the south is disgusting and should no longer be tolerated 150 years after the civil war.
I am not aware of any statues of Washington or Jefferson that were installed for the specific purpose of demeaning entire races of people. It isn't just that the people depicted in the confederate statues did some bad things, it is that the entire purpose of the statues is to intimidate non-whites while glorifying a truly horrible cause and rebellion.
What’s next? Statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
What’s next? Statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
I'm sorry, please remind me when those 2 committed treason, open rebellion and warred against the United States?
Probably not. Turns out founding a country has some redeeming qualities. We've long since accepted the founding fathers various warts.
Defeat the British, write the Declaration of Independence, these are far cries from a generic tribute to racism.
And what happens if the Indians we stole the land from suddenly wind up in charge or we're re-conquered by the British?
I'm sorry, please remind me when those 2 committed treason, open rebellion and warred against the United States?