‘Silent Sam’ Confederate Statue

[ecogen]

As has been pointed out repeatedly those timeframes represent the 50 and 100 year anniversaries of the Civil War. They weren’t picked arbitrarily just because some white guys randomly felt extra racist at the same time.

The guy the daughters of the confederacy invited to give a speech on the unveiling of the statue was a prominent KKK supporter who included the following passage in his speech:

“I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal,” Carr said. “One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head.”

Anyone crying about this statue being taken down needs a reality check.

 

[Meghan54]

As has been pointed out repeatedly those timeframes represent the 50 and 100 year anniversaries of the Civil War. They weren’t picked arbitrarily just because some white guys randomly felt extra racist at the same time.

And incorrectly, every time. Nice diversion, though.

The first spike started in ~1898, just four years after Plessy v. Ferguson, you know, the legitimization of "separate but equal" nonsense and the rise of Jim Crow laws.

The second wave of building started well before the 100 anniversary of the war, in ~1954/5. This, interestingly, coincided with the Civil Rights movement's beginnings. Otherwise, why did the raising of Confederate monuments peter out by 1965, when the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act had both become law of the land? That's when the spike should've started, not ended.

 

[Meghan54]

Various aspects to this question.

1: Reunification. They are not "confederate" statues, as in they are not distinguishably separate from the United States. The South is part of our country, their history and honored people are ours as well. We are one nation, one people with a shared history. Those who waged that war, at the time, accepted our brothers and sisters back into the fold. And as things worked in prior generations, locality and states meant a great deal more. There was far less national character compared to local character, local history, local "heroes".

So the end of bloodshed, the reunification of the United States, means adopting it all. It means accepting the end of slavery, the end of the war, in return for peace. Part of that peace, at least back then, was letting them live and let live. To maintain whatever dignity remained. Their noses were to be rubbed in it only so far as to enact the real outcome of the war.

Today's society appears to have no love for that status quo. The agreement that ended the war is broken, now it is the forcible imposition of our national discourse over theirs. To dishonor their honor. To tear down their statues and to redefine their culture and society. To finally end the "South", not just physically and spiritually as well. To me it appears more forced than it needs be.

2: This particular statue appears to be a gross violation of our societal norms today. For who erected it, to where it was placed. For who it honors. As an "outsider" myself, I would only value historical markers for military service to our nation. Maybe the statue discussed here was of a guy elected into office. I don't know. It seems fine to remove it given its particular context.

The only noses that got rubbed in anything were the noses of the blacks of the South. The white conservatives certainly got what they wanted....Supreme Court legitimization of "separate but equal" and the corresponding Jim Crow laws that the conservative dominated SC allowed through via Andrew Johnson's admin.

 

[brianmanahan]

They are not "confederate" statues, as in they are not distinguishably separate from the United States. The South is part of our country, their history and honored people are ours as well.

in my family, most everyone still makes a distinction between the north and south. nobody has ever moved into a confederate state because you'd get crap from everyone else for being a southerner - at least from all the older people, younger ones seem to care less and are moving around more (but nobody into confederate states yet).

 

[mizzou]

And incorrectly, every time. Nice diversion, though.

The first spike started in ~1898, just four years after Plessy v. Ferguson, you know, the legitimization of "separate but equal" nonsense and the rise of Jim Crow laws.

The second wave of building started well before the 100 anniversary of the war, in ~1954/5. This, interestingly, coincided with the Civil Rights movement's beginnings. Otherwise, why did the raising of Confederate monuments peter out by 1965, when the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act had both become law of the land? That's when the spike should've started, not ended.

1898 would have also been around the time the veterans were dying off. From what I recall, even Union veterans had an immense amount of statues and monuments built in memory. Gettysburg is just littered with statues and plaques everywhere.

This was an age before the internet, tv, and mass communication. I think people must have felt it very important from a communication standpoint to build something physical that made a statement.

I think in the 50’s it’s a better argument that civil war confederate nostalgia was a response to the changing civil rights movements. But it’s also important to note the KKK was ginormous at the turn of the 19th century.

I would imagine the plethora of 1900’s memorials are a direct result of those people physically dying.

 

[Brainonska511]

It's time to place the statues commemorating the people who fought for white supremacy and slavery where they belong: in a trash heap.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

lol.
what, do you have the memory retention of a gnat? History is written, it's in books, in museums. Theses statues were put up to show the Black man his place in society.
LOL.. erase history, what a maroon. That is the argument of a feeble mind. And then the hitler comparison, jeeezus.

I'd say if that was the purpose it failed miserably. In case you forgot we just had a black President. Why take down a statue that is a work of art, and those that thought it would 'show the black man his place' were proven wrong.
BTW, colors are not capitalized in English.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol


I'd say if that was the purpose it failed miserably. In case you forgot we just had a black President. Why take down a statue that is a work of art, and those that thought it would 'show the black man his place' were proven wrong.
BTW, colors are not capitalized in English.

you've been exposed as to what you really are, and now you're attempting to do some verbal gymnastics to show that Black men and women really aren't all that persecuted, or subjected to systemic racism.
And 'art' is a subjective term. Sometimes the subject matter of the art, no matter how perfectly rendered can make it a steaming pile of shit.
And thanks for the failed grammar lesson, you closet klansman
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/language_corner_1.php

 

[senseamp]

Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol

Let it flow, we are getting to your true character.

 

[Blackjack200]

Don't you dare take away my racism statue or I'll lynch you.

 

[mizzou]

Don't you dare take away my racism statue or I'll lynch you.

Careful. I had a mod once write me up for making what I thought was obviously exaggerated comedy to poke fun at racism.

As far as I know those kind of comments are not for p&n.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Careful. I had a mod once write me up for making what I thought was obviously exaggerated comedy to poke fun at racism.

As far as I know those kind of comments are not for p&n.

I believe that this is what he was replying to:

"Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol"

What use do you think the rope is intended for?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I believe that this is what he was replying to:

"Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol"

What use do you think the rope is intended for?

Pulling down that shitty statue

 

[sportage]

I think this statue is our history and should NOT be destroyed, but INSTEAD....
Should be carefully removed, and sent to a museum for display.
Like displaying the horrors from the Nazi era at the Holocaust museum.
We all need to remember and realize THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
That freeing the slaves ended up with the death of a president, and a civil war tearing the nation apart at the seams.
Pitting brother against brother. Neighbor against neighbor.
WE MUST REMEMBER.
By saving this statue for display in a museum is the best way to remember.
Yes folks, America actually went through that era.
It was not easy getting to the point we find ourselves today as a nation.
All people and especially black people need to know that this could happen, that this did happen, and this could happen again if we ignore and forget our past.
I.e. the extreme hate, the bigotry, the war. This could happen again if we chose to ignore and forget.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Pulling down that shitty statue

In the original quote? No. It's intended for those pulling down the statute.

""Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol"

'Joke' about lynching protestors. "lol"

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

In the original quote? No. It's intended for those pulling down the statute.

""Yep and getting some rope from a hardware store is a better way to take care of those that do damage to public property too. lol"

'Joke' about lynching protestors. "lol"

well shit, I really misread that

 

[Alpha One Seven]

It's amazing how many people mistakenly think the civil war was about slavery. It was about States rights to self govern.
On the bright side the police arrested 7 of the people that were protesting the statue and removed it forcibly.
They fought the law and the law won.

Let it flow, we are getting to your true character.

Yep. It's my true nature to prosecute and incarcerate those that break the law. Shocking isn't it?
The fact that I am black has nothing to do with obeying the laws and legally changing the laws you disagree with.

 

[Victorian Gray]

well shit, I really misread that

One of those "fine people" we hear so much about.

 

[Brainonska511]

It's amazing how many people mistakenly think the civil war was about slavery. It was about States rights to self govern.

Yeah, the right to self govern so that they could continue the institution of slavery.

It's amazing how quickly some people are able to wash over the South's own words in their documents of secession when the causes of the Civil War. They explicitly call out slavery as one of the driving reasons to secede from the Union.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's amazing how many people mistakenly think the civil war was about slavery. It was about States rights to self govern.

Yeh, the right to keep slaves in particular. That's all they wanted. Everything else about the Union was fine by them.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

One reason was not the only reason. Please read this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

I suppose that since the College itself was built by slaves for the benefit of slaveholders, the entire thing should be razed to the ground.
And since the US itself once condoned slavery, the entire Nation should be dissolved.

 

[Jhhnn]

One reason was not the only reason. Please read this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

The secessionists maintained it was about slavery no matter what Lincoln or anybody else said to the contrary. That was their motivation.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

One reason was not the only reason. Please read this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2967.html

I suppose that since the College itself was built by slaves for the benefit of slaveholders, the entire thing should be razed to the ground.
And since the US itself once condoned slavery, the entire Nation should be dissolved.

Or, you know, restitution is always and option. Yours is not entirely an either/or discussion.

 

[Jhhnn]

I suppose that since the College itself was built by slaves for the benefit of slaveholders, the entire thing should be razed to the ground.
And since the US itself once condoned slavery, the entire Nation should be dissolved.

So that white supremacists can bring back slavery, right?

 

[Alpha One Seven]

I was never a slave and so I am owed no restitution. I think those that personally owned slaves should pay the slaves they owned for the wages they would have earned if they were not slaves though.
But I still think dissolving the US is a good idea.