“Project 2025”: Conservative master plan to end democracy?

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
I need your advise. I have considered people who don't vote because they are above it all to be absurd as well as those who say both sides are shit and I am too good to vote for either, But with Biden supporting Israel militarily and what they doing with that aid to the Palestinian people I don't want to vote for him for President. What do you think I should do, eat my moral outrage and vote for him anyway because of the 100% asshole? I am in a bit of a pickle regarding all this?
Who will be the least worst for the Palestinians (and billions on others on the planet, Biden or Trump? If the answer is Biden you vote for Biden.

Although Biden bear hugged Israel way too much he at least appears to have some empathy for the Palestinians. Trump couldn't care less if every one of them was killed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Who will be the least worst for the Palestinians (and billions on others on the planet, Biden or Trump? If the answer is Biden you vote for Biden.

Although Biden bear hugged Israel way too much he at least appears to have some empathy for the Palestinians. Trump couldn't care less if every one of them was killed.
He made me feel sick to be an American. Trump just makes me sick. I really do not want to give him my vote. I want to see what iRONic has to say. You are saying I should vote for Biden but he said that I should vote but that's my problem. I don't want to vote for either of them. I really don't like it when a President does shit that makes it impossible to be proud of my country. I don't want to be a citizen of a country that is funding the killing of innocent people. I believe Israel's intention of to take Palestinian land. That is the real aim in my opinion. I think Israel is in the grip of religious psychotics. I don't support a Zionist state any more than I do the killing Israeli citizens randomly by Hamas because of the evil of the people in power there.
 

compcons

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2004
2,152
1,163
136
The way elections work, you dont actually vote for the person you want to win. You vote against the person you want to lose. Apathy is the enemy.
He made me feel sick to be an American. Trump just makes me sick. I really do not want to give him my vote. I want to see what iRONic has to say. You are saying I should vote for Biden but he said that I should vote but that's my problem. I don't want to vote for either of them. I really don't like it when a President does shit that makes it impossible to be proud of my country. I don't want to be a citizen of a country that is funding the killing of innocent people. I believe Israel's intention of to take Palestinian land. That is the real aim in my opinion. I think Israel is in the grip of religious psychotics. I don't support a Zionist state any more than I do the killing Israeli citizens randomly by Hamas because of the evil of the people in power there
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
He made me feel sick to be an American. Trump just makes me sick. I really do not want to give him my vote. I want to see what iRONic has to say. You are saying I should vote for Biden but he said that I should vote but that's my problem. I don't want to vote for either of them. I really don't like it when a President does shit that makes it impossible to be proud of my country. I don't want to be a citizen of a country that is funding the killing of innocent people. I believe Israel's intention of to take Palestinian land. That is the real aim in my opinion. I think Israel is in the grip of religious psychotics. I don't support a Zionist state any more than I do the killing Israeli citizens randomly by Hamas because of the evil of the people in power there.
I agree it was a terrible policy decision, but he has also done a lot to help Ukraine and American Children. No president is all good. No person is all good.

Israel has way too big of a grip on American politics, right up there with anti-cuba policy.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,640
34,461
136
While I vehemently disagree with Biden's policy toward Israel I'll have to live with that over the unbounded risk that Trump represents to global security who will undoubtedly have an even worse policy towards Israel anyway.

Withdrawing from all our alliances wholesale that have long stabilized much of the globe is likely to mean a far greater risk of global conflict and resulting economic instability. Trump is a policy disaster on wheels in virtually every conceivable area.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
The way elections work, you dont actually vote for the person you want to win. You vote against the person you want to lose. Apathy is the enemy.
Who will be the least worst for the Palestinians (and billions on others on the planet, Biden or Trump? If the answer is Biden you vote for Biden.

Although Biden bear hugged Israel way too much he at least appears to have some empathy for the Palestinians. Trump couldn't care less if every one of them was killed.
Thank you for your opinions. The way you see things is not foreign to me. I am particularly interested in what iRONic has to say owing to what he has learned with such a unique 30 year experience. His story in my opinion qualifies as one deserving respect. I would like his advise.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
lol. if memory serves in that movie they are referring to Germanic tribes - people the Romans never successfully conquered and who eventually ended the Western Roman Empire that Russel Crowe represents.

Yes, and he also inverted the meaning of that particular piece of dialogue by failing to mention that the Maximus' response was "Would you, Quintus? Would I?" Meaning that any proud people would never consider themselves conquered, directly contrary to Gothuevos' defeatism.

Why he thinks this defeatism is in any way useful as a public message in these times is beyond me.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,260
8,192
136
His only complaint would be that we aren't charging Israel enough for the bombs.

That, and Netanyahu is a competitor in the race for the title of "most self-serving and egotistical douchebag in the world". It's a hard-fought contest, that one.


I agree it was a terrible policy decision, but he has also done a lot to help Ukraine and American Children. No president is all good. No person is all good.

Israel has way too big of a grip on American politics, right up there with anti-cuba policy.

Strikes me that a flaw in a Presidential system, specifically, is that it can degenerate into a search for just such an "all good" individual.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
That, and Netanyahu is a competitor in the race for the title of "most self-serving and egotistical douchebag in the world". It's a hard-fought contest, that one.




Strikes me that a flaw in a Presidential system, specifically, is that it can degenerate into a search for just such an "all good" individual.
Not funding another governments revenge for the killing of its innocent citizens by the killing of the innocent people locked up with the killers in a jail you created should be too much to ask in my opinion.

In my opinion Biden’s support of Israel was a conditioned response of a man on autopilot. When it comes to Israel most in our government react like Pavlov’s dog.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,640
34,461
136
In my opinion Biden’s support of Israel was a conditioned response of a man on autopilot. When it comes to Israel most in our government react like Pavlov’s dog.

Or he and the government at large accurately reflect decades of voter's positive views on Israel. Meaningfully increasing Democratic aligned voter criticism of Israel is a pretty new phenomenon.

 
Reactions: GodisanAtheist

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Yes, and he also inverted the meaning of that particular piece of dialogue by failing to mention that the Maximus' response was "Would you, Quintus? Would I?" Meaning that any proud people would never consider themselves conquered, directly contrary to Gothuevos' defeatism.

Why he thinks this defeatism is in any way useful as a public message in these times is beyond me.
The reason that defeatism is incomprehensible is because we do not want to feel our own. Self understanding which leads to the awareness of self hate is required to understand the psychological conditions that manifest as human behavior. We seek ignorance over understanding because we are in flight from our inner pain. We live in this state of defeatism. He expresses it and we hate ourselves for it. That gets projected on him.

Defeatism is of course a negative state to live in but hating it in others and not seeing why we do will not change anything. The defeatist and the defeatist hater are unconsciously in the grip of the same feelings.

Oh no, I am defeated or oh no I will never allow myself to feel my inner defeat.

Meanwhile, in an invisible world, a different way of seeing exists, perhaps.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Or he and the government at large accurately reflect decades of voter's positive views on Israel. Meaningfully increasing Democratic aligned voter criticism of Israel is a pretty new phenomenon.

View attachment 93802
The concept of a religious state and the fear of full citizenship for the Arab population of Israel from the very beginning of Israel’s establishment as a Jewish state created the conditions of inevitability we see today. We create what we fear out of self hatred projected on the other which causes it to become reflected back. I have seen Israel slowly become what it was designed to be a refuge from by people who lack understanding of how self hate operates.

The growth of hard liners that was inevitable without such understanding has created more and more tragedy on the ground. Since the Palestinians have been able to show their side of the misery on social media there plight has slowly penetrated public attention, but for anybody who has seen how the ego operates, all this could be seen as inevitable decades ago. Having sacred cows is how we create suicide.

Understand how the mind operates is what progressive politics is in my opinion. Biden has shown himself to be unaware the ground has changed right under his feet. It’s not because of his age either.
 

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,105
2,408
136
I need your advise. I have considered people who don't vote because they are above it all to be absurd as well as those who say both sides are shit and I am too good to vote for either, But with Biden supporting Israel militarily and what they doing with that aid to the Palestinian people I don't want to vote for him for President. What do you think I should do, eat my moral outrage and vote for him anyway because of the 100% asshole? I am in a bit of a pickle regarding all this?
You don't need my advice. Vote your own conscience.

My choice is driven by what is good for me and my family. I live in the United States, so those are the most important policies to me. I have posted my personal situation in other threads around here so I won't rehash those.

The Middle East problem has been an issue for centuries! It's a holy war and I can blame both sides equally in this situation! Yes it's heinous and horrifying to watch. That situation does not change my voting preferences though.

As far as someone who lives in a state where they say their vote doesn't matter, that's bullshit! Down ballot voting is one of the most important features in our electoral system.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
You don't need my advice. Vote your own conscience.

My choice is driven by what is good for me and my family. I live in the United States, so those are the most important policies to me. I have posted my personal situation in other threads around here so I won't rehash those.

The Middle East problem has been an issue for centuries! It's a holy war and I can blame both sides equally in this situation! Yes it's heinous and horrifying to watch. That situation does not change my voting preferences though.

As far as someone who lives in a state where they say their vote doesn't matter, that's bullshit! Down ballot voting is one of the most important features in our electoral system.
Thank you. I will take your advise. Whether I needed it or not I wanted it and I appreciate what you had to say. As it stands at the moment I will not be voting for Biden but will be voting otherwise.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
On this issue I’ve frequently seen people confuse their personal preferences for the preferences of the public.
Can you fill in the details. You know what issue you refer to, what personal preferences and what public preferences you have in mind, but I have no idea what specifically you mean.
 
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