$10,000 budget for dedicated theatre build....

[vi edit]

Wife and I are in the prelim stages of designing our upcoming home build. I'm putting a dedicated HT in the basement that will be around 20x15. The screen wall will back up to an unfinished part of the basement. I've done some prelim guesswork and $10k should equip it well. I told her the price I'm looking at and she just said "Ok".

Yay!

The budget includes all equipment - projector, amps, screen, speakers, and HT seating. Not included in the budget is room construction, carpet, lighting, ect.

I'm carrying over my H/K 247 AVR to act as a pre/pro for the time being. It does HDMI processing and has pre-outs that I can dump to a dedicated amp.

Because I have an unfinished area on the other side of the wall, an IB build for subwoofers will work great. It'll cut down on extra costs, keep things tidy, and provide very good sound quality.

Here's what I'm looking at right now...we're probably 6-8 months out from really busting out the wallets so if anything, I'll likely get a little bit nicer PJ for a few bucks less. Everything else should remain fairly constant.

PJ & 100" white screen:
Epson 6100 (1080p) bundle from PJ Guys for around $1800 after rebates.
http://www.projectionguys.com/packages_Epson6100.cfm

5 channel Amp: Emotiva XPA-5
http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm
$850 shipped

Sub Amp: EP2500
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...Channel_Rackmount.html
Under $300 shipped

Subs: 2 x fi Audio IB 18" in an opposed manifold setup
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154a0b3cac40523/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0050_IB3/product_overview.shopscript">https://ssl.perfora.net/www......verview.shopscript</a>
$500

Fronts: av123 Rocket 850's
http://www.av123.com//index.ph...m_virtuemart&Itemid=37
$1300

Center: av123 bigfoot
http://www.av123.com//index.ph...m_virtuemart&Itemid=37
$450

Surrounds: av123 rocket bipoles
http://www.av123.com//index.ph...m_virtuemart&Itemid=37
$600

BR player: Panny BD60
$250

Power conditionings - some model of panamax
$400 - $600

I've got another $1000 budgeted in for room treatments, cables, and misc hardware.

And then around $2000 for the cinema seating.

All that added up comes in just under $10,000. If you were building is there any glaring excess I'm doing way or another? I'm not really sold on 7.1. The room just doesn't seem like it would be big enough to benefit from it.

I know it's hard to use the word "value" and $10,000($8k not counting the couch) in the same sentence but it really is a pretty modest budget for a dedicated HT setup compared to what I've seen a lot of people do. Performance wise I think I'm really going to get a lot out of system and don't know if I'd see significant gains without major additional costs.

 

[Shadowknight]

I've avoid av123... I've heard they've had business problems in the last couple of years, so it's hard to get the item you order from them (pre-orders anyway).

 

[spidey07]

20x15 is going to be bad mojo if your ceilings are 8 feet. Can you go with 9 foot ceilings? Overall the breakdown looks good. You'll need a pre-amp/processor as well.

 

[vi edit]

The speakers are the one piece I'm most wishy washy on. I live a good 3 hours from any major metro area that carry some of the higher end stuff. I did happen to see today that there's actually a dealer near me that carries Paradign. Their monitor line gets good reviews and I think the price is right in line what I'm looking to spend.

I need to get over and check them out.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
I've avoid av123... I've heard they've had business problems in the last couple of years, so it's hard to get the item you order from them (pre-orders anyway).

I agree on items that are out of stock. Until they open their forum back up, I'm having a hard time trusting them fully, even though I've had very good experiences with them with my current products.

 

[krotchy]

Why are you using Car sub woofers with an external amp instead of getting an eD or HSU sub? I have no experience with that brand, but I have yet to hear a car sub that would sound proper in a home theater, but I assume you have done some research on the topic.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: spidey07
20x15 is going to be bad mojo if your ceilings are 8 feet. Can you go with 9 foot ceilings? Overall the breakdown looks good. You'll need a pre-amp/processor as well.

Basement will have an extra course of block to make for 9' ceilings. Wouldn't my existing AVR count as the processor if I have pre-outs on it?

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: spidey07
20x15 is going to be bad mojo if your ceilings are 8 feet. Can you go with 9 foot ceilings? Overall the breakdown looks good. You'll need a pre-amp/processor as well.

Basement will have an extra course of block to make for 9' ceilings. Wouldn't my existing AVR count as the processor if I have pre-outs on it?

Yes, it would, I didn't notice you mentioning the H/K AVR when I first read it either, so I suspect that was what happened.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: krotchy
Why are you using Car sub woofers with an external amp instead of getting an eD or HSU sub? I have no experience with that brand, but I have yet to hear a car sub that would sound proper in a home theater, but I assume you have done some research on the topic.

FiCar is a very respected brand in DIY audio. The owner has happened to cater to the IB folks because they were utilizing the Q lineup already but it was optimized for IB use. So this way, folks are saving money and getting a more specialized driver.

It is a good choice. If I was going IB, FiCar would be high on my list.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: krotchy
Why are you using Car sub woofers with an external amp instead of getting an eD or HSU sub? I have no experience with that brand, but I have yet to hear a car sub that would sound proper in a home theater, but I assume you have done some research on the topic.

FiCar is a very respected brand in DIY audio. The owner has happened to cater to the IB folks because they were utilizing the Q lineup already but it was optimized for IB use. So this way, folks are saving money and getting a more specialized driver.

It is a good choice. If I was going IB, FiCar would be high on my list.

Yeh, for the amount of air these things will displace for $700, there isn't a commercial boxed product that can come within miles of it. I'm still not sure if I'm better off going 2 x 18" or 4 x 15".

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: krotchy
Why are you using Car sub woofers with an external amp instead of getting an eD or HSU sub? I have no experience with that brand, but I have yet to hear a car sub that would sound proper in a home theater, but I assume you have done some research on the topic.

FiCar is a very respected brand in DIY audio. The owner has happened to cater to the IB folks because they were utilizing the Q lineup already but it was optimized for IB use. So this way, folks are saving money and getting a more specialized driver.

It is a good choice. If I was going IB, FiCar would be high on my list.

Yeh, for the amount of air these things will displace for $700, there isn't a commercial boxed product that can come within miles of it. I'm still not sure if I'm better off going 2 x 18" or 4 x 15".

That is a tough one. I got the answer...4 x 18.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: spidey07
20x15 is going to be bad mojo if your ceilings are 8 feet. Can you go with 9 foot ceilings? Overall the breakdown looks good. You'll need a pre-amp/processor as well.

Basement will have an extra course of block to make for 9' ceilings. Wouldn't my existing AVR count as the processor if I have pre-outs on it?

Then by all means do 9' ceilings. Having even multiples in any dimension can be really difficult no matter what treatments you do because it will mainly affect bass with HUGE peaks and valleys in your response, as much as 20-30 db. There's not much you can do for that because it's the room. So 15x21x9 would be good, but there's still the common base 3 which I don't "think" is a problem...been a while, but even then you have the odd 3-5-7 multipliers of the base.

Your room dimensions are about as important as all of your equipment. So choose the dimensions carefully as well as the seating. You can put the best gear out there in a crappy room and it will still sound crappy, or at the least no where near it's potential.

And really think about 7.1 or at the least prepare for it cabling wise and placement.

 

[vi edit]

Here's the floor plan...unmodified.
http://www.architecturaldesign...-home-plan-24328tw.asp

HT is in the basement (bottom of page). It's actually 14 1/2 by 19. Instead of a french door I'll likely go with a traditional framed solid core door with a good seal on it.

Room construction will be a staggered stud and plaster. The staggered studs help decouple the inner wall from the outerwall. I'm looking into some sound dampening adhesives you apply between the studs and the plaster boards to further help dampen the noise bleed. One such product is called "green glue". It's very pricey though.

 

[88MVP]

Here are my thoughts:

What will make having a dedicated theater room REALLY special is the quality of the seating, the carpeting, the lighting, the screen etc. If I were in your shoes I would shift more of the budget to purchasing top-end home theater seating and misc. appointments to the decor. If you and your wife expect to use the room to entertain guests, most of them will be a lot more blown away by the quality of the room and the "movie theater experience" than your audiophile equipment.

400-600 for a power conditioner is pissing money away, IMHO. This would be better allocated elsewhere. There are other threads that hash his out, I won't go into it.

As far as the AV equipment and the speakers go, keep in mind which items you're personally more likely to upgrade. Personally i would plan the budget keeping in mind that I would swap out the pre-pro for something newer every 3-4 years as new features and audio formats necessitate, and might update the projector every 4-5 years, but things like the amp and speakers are a much more permanent investment.

 

[s44]

For a dedicated HT I'd use pro-style (high efficiency, high SPL) speakers. See if you can get a set of the JTR Triple 8s, which seem to be the current standard in that price ballpark. (Main problem: the price went up and there's nevertheless a wait unless you can find some used.)

For a $25K HT Mark Seaton's actively-crossed & ICE-amped Catalysts ($3500 each) are probably a no-brainer, but that doesn't help...

 

[vi edit]

It gets a little blurry when figuring costs because of how the construction loan works. I could probably get away with the projector and screen getting included on the original mortgage since they are "fixed" items. All lighting and woodworking features in the room could be rolled in too. Many of the little accessories will be bought and added afterwards (posters, artwork, requesite DTS sign and movie reel, ect). Wife will have imput on the room aestetics to prevent it from being a total man cave.

Other costs will be from cash out at loan signing as we are doing a lot of work on our own (foundation, stone & brick work on outside, flooring, tiling, ect). So cost of home vs. appraised value will really work in our favor.

I'll likely look at the Emotive processors later down the road as they have a very nice "tradeup" program where current owners get a 40% discount on future models. Being that they are reasonably priced up front, 40% off further sweetens the deal.

 

[s44]

If this is still in the process of being put together, you might consider a pre-order of the "2010" version of the Triple 8s: $900 each, twice the efficiency (98db!!!)... Not sure when they'll turn up, but a new order for the current ($1200/each) version of the Triple 8 won't get filled until July.

(Again, you could also see if a used set turns up.)

 

[Tiamat]

For room dimensions, you do not want the dimensions to have any multiple related. I think prime numbers are best, if possible. However, if you can make your own acoustic bass traps, that should help immensely. If you havent already done so, check out AVSforums Acoustics thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432

Especially superchunks. Fill every corner with the superchunks. This includes ceiling/wall bi-corners, wall-wall bi/tri corners, floor/wall corners. Be sure to keep the FRK layer on so that they do not absorb highs (I believe putting the triangles inside plastic bags will do similar). The wall treatments as detailed in that thread (I think half height side walls) should be enough.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

As others have mentioned the room will be the most important single element to the room, but since it's been covered by others I won't rehash it.

What is the lifespan of the components? Is this something you just want to buy, and then hardly ever touch again (component wise), or something you want to just get a base level to and upgrade later?

Amp, pre/pro, pj/screen look fine, and the subs I have no experience with that type for HT use so I'll leave that alone also. What jumped out at me were the speakers, BR player, and power. You're looking at ~$2500 for a 5.0 system (since the subs are elsewhere in the plan). There are many other options in this price point. For that price you could do Focal 700 series, Paradigm Monitor's, Mthos ST Superpower for a bit more, but would replace the subs, Salksong towers I believe would maybe be options (or should at least look into Salk products), B&W 600 series, among many others. Some of these systems are a tad over the $2500 mark (the Mythos is about $3k, but you drop the other subs), and you should be able to get a dealer to knock a few hundred off if you buy them all at once from them. I've never heard Rockets, but with their questionable business future I'd be looking elsewhere. Look at Paradigm, Focal, and B&W websites to find local dealers (who will most likely have other brands as well). Go to the stores with an audio cd you know well, and listen. Spend multiple hours, and multiple sessions with each speaker set if possible before buying what sounds best to you and your wife (if she is to be consulted ). Also, if you don't mind used speakers check out audiogon, and you can find some great used equipment that would be out of your price range new.

The BR player should drop in price over the next few months, and buy one around that price point that's best when you are ready to buy.

Power conditioning is a great thing to have, but IMHO that seems a bit much to spend on it based upon your budget. There are plenty of good power conditioners that are 1/2 the price you want to spend.

The seating/treatments you seem to be fine on.

Otherwise looks good Post pics when it's finished!!

 

[vi edit]

For power can I use a rack mount capable UPS designed for computers? Where we are building is out in the sticks a bit. My parents live almost litteraly across a field from us and they have lost power and have flickers fairly frequently.

I'm not so much concerned about keeping things powered when the lights go out, just something that gives me a chance to power down nicely before the battery croaks. I've read a few things about sine wave vs non sine wave power supplies but frankly I'm lost on it. I just want to keep a couple grand in electronics safe when the weather goes to hell.

For upgrades I'm not really the type to constantly keep updating to the latest and greatest. I'm buying into a 1080p projector so for the time being there really isn't anything better I can do. I don't need the frame interpolation that some offer as I don't care for the effects it produces. And while I appreciate image quality, I can rationalize performance to a budget and don't simply require "the best".

Same with the audio side. I'm coming from a pieced together modest system using an entry level AVR to power things. Hell, my current speakers are a $150 set of Wharfedales I bought off of Ubid over 10 years ago. Going from that to dedicated amps and the level of speakers I'm looking to buy should sufficiently keep me happy.

If I need more bass...I can simply drop in another IB array. If I need updated processing, I can grab the latest processor Emotiva offers. If I feel like the mains need more juice I can pick up a 2 channel amp from Emotiva and drop in, then take that current 5 channel and split it across 3 channels with more juice running to each channel.

But still...going from a 60w a channel hacked together setup to a 200w entry level premium speaker system should be pretty eye opening.

Since I've still got a lot of time before construction kicks in I can make changes to the floor plans/room size. I'll hit up the acoustics section of AVS. That's one area I haven't ventured yet.

 

[erwos]

I'm surprised you're not going the extra mile and going 7.1. Between native sources and matrixing, mine seem to get a reasonable amount of audio going through them.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Oh, and if you still end up looking at rockets, there's a deal on currently with 850/200/450 for $1999 + shipping http://www.av123.com//index.ph...m_virtuemart&Itemid=37
The same package was $1699 a week ago, which was an excellent price.

Or even the 450/200/450 combo
http://www.av123.com//index.ph...m_virtuemart&Itemid=37
+ 850s on their own

 

[vi edit]

I've been looking over Paradigm and they are more affordable than I previously thought. For some reason I was thinking that a set of front floorstanders would run me over $2k. Looks like it's closer to half that. The monitor lineup looks like a real winner. And the golden cherry finish would look really sharp with the color scheme we are thinking.

I need to see if that dealer near me still exists.

Re: 7.1
I haven't ruled it out. It just doesn't seem all that big of a deal to me. I could plan for it and run the cables and just use my current AVR to power that channel if I decide to go that route.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: vi edit
I haven't ruled it out. It just doesn't seem all that big of a deal to me. I could plan for it and run the cables and just use my current AVR to power that channel if I decide to go that route.

IMHO, it it's well worth it when a movie or game actually provides a "real" rear channel or two (6.1 or 7.1). X-Men: The Last Stand (DTS-HD MA 6.1) is a really good example I've experienced personally: the surround sound is able to pan to the rear MUCH more effectively with those rear speakers there. There is really some "wow!" factor to it.

Unfortunately, 6.1/7.1 mixes are only in a small minority of releases so far (New Line and Lionsgate), but the situation is not as bad as it was a year ago.

As you said, I would leave room for those rear speakers and run the wiring during construction. That way, it's only a simple wall-mount scenario to get them up there.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: vi edit
I've been looking over Paradigm and they are more affordable than I previously thought. For some reason I was thinking that a set of front floorstanders would run me over $2k. Looks like it's closer to half that. The monitor lineup looks like a real winner. And the golden cherry finish would look really sharp with the color scheme we are thinking.

I need to see if that dealer near me still exists.

Re: 7.1
I haven't ruled it out. It just doesn't seem all that big of a deal to me. I could plan for it and run the cables and just use my current AVR to power that channel if I decide to go that route.

If you like the sound of Paradigm, you should at least check out B&W and Focal. Similar sound characteristics, but focal are more "airy" and the B&W's don't have as "harsh" a high end. All 3 have a lineup in that price point, and so do many others. I haven't found any other brand that I like as much as those three personally (with Focal taking top spot, and B&W placing second), and like I said they all have similar traits (i.e. have very "crisp" high freq). Focal's are very transparent speakers, Paradigm have a bit more "harsh" high end (that still sounds good IMO), and B&W has the presence of Paradigms but with a more "laid back" high end than Paradigms.

IIRC all 3 offer a color scheme that is close to that, but I think Paradigm's is the lightest colored vaneers of those 3. Focal and B&W usually have darker tints to their vaneers (B&W Maple vaneer Focal's light vaneer Paradigm's light coloring).

Wire the room for 7.1 just in case. Then if you decide to add the 2 channels, the real work is done and you just have to go buy speakers to have it.