10% Tax

[child of wonder]

Lots of churches own or run businesses. Some church run businesses that are for profit and some are run as a break-even endeavour. Then some ventures make money and the money is donated to a good cuase or a portion goes to charity. Even a church fund raiser could be said to be a business. Catholics and others are notorious for running Church Bingo and having events like Sausage and Pancake breakfasts or running a barbeque operation our of a truck. However, most of the time this money goes back to the church.

Some churches pay their clergy and some do not. I know in my church most of the clergy are expected to have a full time job and work in the church for free. Only people that are called for full-time positions like president of the Church or an Apostle or a General Authority are paid. This is only because they have to forsake all earthly endeavours and businesses they may have and spend all of their time working for the church. If they owned a business someone else would have to run it.

Every church manages its affairs how they see fit and that is fine.

Churches are not the only non-profit organizations. For instance if there is an event like a concert or a marathon for Cancer, or whatever the cause may be, it is about the same thing as what a church is doing. AARP sells insurance products and other things.

"General Authority?" "Apostle?" Ah, you're a Mormon. Now I see why you don't want churches to be taxed. Naturally, an institution that demands 10% of a member's gross income in order for them to receive the full benefits of the church would be against taxing their revenue.

 

[piasabird]

A flat tax on spending hurts the poor the same as on income. In fact a flat tax system based on sales tax would hurt the poor even more. You only pay income tax if you make money to begin with. I have thought that instead of a standard income tax percentage for the tax we should have a minimum amount of income you have to make before we start taxing depending on what the census bureau sets the poverty level at. So if you never make the poverty level of income, then you would just not have any tax deducted. That way if you are working below the poverty line you would never have any tax deducted and you would not have to file a tax form and you would not get a tax refund. The whole point of a simple tax system is to reduce the paperwork burden on the working people. You could do the same for other taxes as well, like Social Security. That way poor people would actually make more money, and keep the money they make witout having to fill out a form or beg the money from government agencies. The only problem I would see is how to keep track of people that have multiple sources of income. There might have to be some kind of electronic report of payment for all income.
In some cases when there is an overpayment, there will need to be a way to apply for a refund. The point is to do away with all the government programs and exemptions so there are no penalties and all the money you receive is yours. A person should not need an accountant or special software just to figure out their taxes. We are placing too much burder on the taxpayer. It is like a taxpayer is guilty till proven innocent.

My ideas are not affiliated with any political group.

 

[Scotteq]

How is that class warfare?
All "classes" are treated equally.

Having one group pay nothing and the other group pay everything is pitting the classes against each other.

No less than Giving the Rich (who hardly need it) break at the expense of the Poor and (especially) the Middle Classes.

Income Level Matters when compared to the Cost of Living. It doesn't kill a 6 figure wage earner to pay a little more. OTOH, it hurts a LOT when you're at the bottom of the income scale.


http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010).

A Flat Tax (which greatly raises the burden on the poor, and reduces the burden on the rich) serves nobody except the Rich: When the Rich already control the great majority of the nation's wealth.


If we want to reform the Tax code (and we certainaly do), then let's simplify the damned Tax code and eliminate the loopholes, shelters, and deductions. Not give the money holders a bigger break at the expense of those who already have little.

 

[Acanthus]

Regarding the Federal Tax rates I think we should go back to the level they were when the great Republican President Eisenhower was in office.

91%?

 

[piasabird]

Mormons dont demand 10% of gross income. We believe that all things that are good come from God and that the Tithe is whatever God provided for us. No one ever forced me to donate to a church. I choose to give the Lord God my fair and honest Tithe and also any other funds for his use. Only the Government forces me to donate!

I have been working as a Church Auditor and I also see a lot of money going out from the church to people that cant pay their rent or their electric payments and I really appreciate how the Church Helps people. Every penny donated is accounted for and Bishops in Mormon Churches and many others like myself work for free. For instance all donations are documented in a computer system and the money and the receipt has to be taken to a bank with 2 Members of the Bishopric/Financial Records Clerk when they are taken to the bank. All payments to members also require a receipt to show what the money is for. For a Bishop, being a steward over the Lords Donations is considered a sacred duty, because the Bishop is responsible for the physical well-being of the ward members.

I do not care how you choose to spend your money. I see churches doing a lot more good than the government. That is because good honest people tend to care about one another.

The funny thing is that I pay a lot less in taxes due to my charitable donations. Whether a person gives to a church, the red cross or the United way or some other group, it really helps people to be able to claim charitable donations. I also give money to the United Way every year.

 

[child of wonder]

Mormons dont demand 10% of gross income. We believe that all things that are good come from God and that the Tithe is whatever God provided for us. No one ever forced me to donate to a church. Only the Government forces me to donate!

Stop giving 10% and see if you can get a Temple Recommend.

 

[CPA]

This is just a very basic idea that I've been thinking about a lot. 10% tax. Across the board. 10% federal tax. 10% state tax. 10% property tax. 10% sales tax (or maybe a 10% VAT). 10% tax on corporations/businesses. No loopholes. No deductions.

What do you guys think?

40% taxrate? yeah, okay that will fly.

 

[dquan97]

No less than Giving the Rich (who hardly need it) break at the expense of the Poor and (especially) the Middle Classes.

A Flat Tax (which greatly raises the burden on the poor, and reduces the burden on the rich) serves nobody except the Rich: When the Rich already control the great majority of the nation's wealth.


If we want to reform the Tax code (and we certainaly do), then let's simplify the damned Tax code and eliminate the loopholes, shelters, and deductions. Not give the money holders a bigger break at the expense of those who already have little.

Agreed. A flat tax hurts the poor and benefits the wealthy. I'd also increase the capital gains tax and encourage gov't spending on charter schools.

 

[werepossum]

Personally I hate the idea that government has first claim on my earnings. I'd much rather have a consumption tax, which rewards investment and savings while giving government a crack at only the money you spend. But a standard simple flat tax will never pass - it's too hard on low earners and too easy on high earners, and we're all about class warfare. The FairTax attempts to get around this inherent problem by prebating to each household the amount it will spend in tax at the poverty level for the size of household. No games, no deductions, no picking of winners and losers by government. No rewarding and punishing of legal behaviors by government to suit societal morality.

Of course, the FairTax has zero chance of getting passed either. Even without the class warfare, Congress would never vote away its biggest power and biggest fundraiser - to punish or reward using the tax code.

 

[TheBDB]

The only way taxing everyone the same percentage would be fair is if the playing field were equal for everyone, starting from birth and lasting throughout your life.

 

[Patranus]

The only way taxing everyone the same percentage would be fair is if the playing field were equal for everyone, starting from birth and lasting throughout your life.

There is equal opportunity, just ask John Boehner.
What you want is equal outcomes, and that isn't what America is about.

 

[SparkyJJO]

The only way taxing everyone the same percentage would be fair is if the playing field were equal for everyone, starting from birth and lasting throughout your life.

10% of 50k = $5,000.
10% of 100k = $10,000.
10% of 150k = $15,000.

I don't see what is "unfair" about that. More you make = more you pay. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[Brainonska511]

10% of 50k = $5,000.
10% of 100k = $10,000.
10% of 150k = $15,000.

I don't see what is "unfair" about that. More you make = more you pay. Seems simple enough to me.

Look up marginal utility

 

[TheBDB]

There is equal opportunity, just ask John Boehner.
What you want is equal outcomes, and that isn't what America is about.

I actually don't want equal outcomes.

All I said was because there isn't true equal opportunity, we shouldn't have a flat tax rate. Those that have advantages and benefit from them should pay more.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Los Angeles county has a 9.75% sales tax. The rest of CA is at 8.75%.

 

[Craig234]

Mormons dont demand 10% of gross income. We believe that all things that are good come from God and that the Tithe is whatever God provided for us. No one ever forced me to donate to a church. I choose to give the Lord God my fair and honest Tithe and also any other funds for his use. Only the Government forces me to donate!

I have been working as a Church Auditor and I also see a lot of money going out from the church to people that cant pay their rent or their electric payments and I really appreciate how the Church Helps people. Every penny donated is accounted for and Bishops in Mormon Churches and many others like myself work for free.

Yes, like the needy campaign to bring back discrimination against gays in California, that the Mormons were a major donor to, giving money that could have gone to the needy.

 

[Red Dawn]

91%?

Well the Conservatives are always pining for the good old days.:biggrin:

 

[nick1985]

OP is a fool. Way too much tax

 

[nick1985]

Well the Conservatives are always pining for the good old days.:biggrin:

What are you liberals pining for?

 

[Red Dawn]

What are you liberals pining for?

Don't know what Liberals are pining for but I'd like to see common sense take over and neither party seems to have much of that.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Look up marginal utility

Tell me why that matters.

 

[her209]

Tell me why that matters.

Wow....

 

[senseamp]

10% property tax? Yikes.

 

[L00PY]

Tell me why that matters.

I'll take a stab at this and suggest that he meant the law of diminishing marginal utility. Let's say I'm giving you $10 more to spend on your lunch today. If you've only got $1 in your pocket, that extra $10 can make a huge difference in your lunch. It makes less of difference if you've already got $20 in your pocket. And it makes next to no difference if you've already got $1,000 there.

The same applies to a flat tax on income. If you're making $20k a year, that $2k buys a lot in terms of basic necessities and can make the difference in whether you go hungry or have your electricity turned off. If you're making $2 million, that $200k isn't going to affect your lifestyle all that much at all.

The only way I could see a flat tax working is if it were actually much higher and with a poverty level based indexed exemption. For example, you could not tax any income below two and a half times the poverty level and then tax a flat 33% of any income above that. Based on 2011 HHS Poverty Guidelines, a single person making $50k a year would end up paying ~$7600 in taxes (around 15.2% which is less than the current marginal tax rate of 17.25%). Single people making $100k would be hit with a slight tax hike (24% vs 21.6%) as would people making $500k (31.5% vs 30.5%).

The biggest difference would be that without any other exemptions or deductions, the code would be greatly simplified.

 

[nick1985]

Damn, even senseamp thinks this is too much tax.