10 year old to launch first "drag club" for kids

[justoh]

Apart from the issue of unwanted pregnancy and STD's, which kids are at greater risk for because they may not be aware of birth control, sex involves emotional intimacy with another person that a 12 year old isn't prepared for.

Sex isn't some mystical experience, isn't the same thing as intimacy, and doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with it. This kind of vague, magical thinking is still part of the problem. There's still implicit many remnants of traditional/conservative stupidity among people who don't consider themselves conservatives when it comes to sex. I'm not saying encourage children to have sex, but all this emotional issue talk is bullshit and ironically self-fulfilling., ie. a problem because we make it one.

 

[woolfe9998]

Sex isn't some mystical experience, isn't the same thing as intimacy, and doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with it. This kind of vague, magical thinking is still part of the problem. There's still implicit many remnants of traditional/conservative stupidity among people who don't consider themselves conservatives when it comes to sex. I'm not saying encourage children to have sex, but all this emotional issue talk is bullshit and ironically self-fulfilling., ie. a problem because we make it one.

I think on average there is a general difference between males and females in terms of whether they attach intimate significance to the sexual act. I agree with you that sex need not have anything to do with intimacy but I'm a guy. I think there are potential emotional complications with sex which 12 years are generally not equipped to handle.

 

[senseamp]

I am more concerned about Republican supported pedophiles preying on our kids.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The sexual revolution has been so perverse, it has even led to resignations and firings across the US lately.

Promoting gender confusion and cultural decay in the younger generations is a bad idea, not that things are bad enough already.

shut the fuck up, poseur.

 

[snoopy7548]

These questions are stupid.

Where do you think the money for this Drag Club is coming from?
Who do you think is going to run it?

Probably using the profits from their child sex pizza-shop ring.
Likely those corrupted liberal fascist pedophiles.

 

[Paladin3]

I'm not sure a 10-year-old is ready to make business decisions. His parents are probably pushing this and exploiting his sexuality for profit. Or at the least it's a misguided attempt to support him in a way that's not appropriate at so young an age. This is worlds away from encouraging your gay child to create a high school LGBT club at school for support and to discuss LGBT issues. If you look at the photos in the story the kid isn't dressing like a girl, he's dressing like a flamboyant, side show drag queen.

I say this as the parent of two loved and 100% accepted gay children. Heck, I even love the straight one too.

 

[justoh]

I think on average there is a general difference between males and females in terms of whether they attach intimate significance to the sexual act. I agree with you that sex need not have anything to do with intimacy but I'm a guy. I think there are potential emotional complications with sex which 12 years are generally not equipped to handle.

You mean because girls are vulnerable and boys are strong? Seems a little sexist...

 

[woolfe9998]

You mean because girls are vulnerable and boys are strong? Seems a little sexist...

I'm being factual. Girls in general are more likely to attach intimate significance to the sexual act. In a given case, the roles could actually be reversed, but in most cases, yes, that's the way it is.

I'm not PC, so it does you no good to try baiting me by accusing me of sexism.

 

[1prophet]

Wait... it's child abuse if your kids are having sex? What?

If they take selfies doing it and send them to their underage friends it's child pornography, but if they were over eighteen and send them to their legal age friends it is art and free speech.

Since we allow them to dress their own bodies as they wish and send pictures of it to their friends because some here claim they are fully capable of understanding just like an adult why is it illegal for them to undress their bodies and do the same just like an adult?

 

[snoopy7548]

I'm not sure a 10-year-old is ready to make business decisions. His parents are probably pushing this and exploiting his sexuality for profit. Or at the least it's a misguided attempt to support him in a way that's not appropriate at so young an age. This is worlds away from encouraging your gay child to create a high school LGBT club at school for support and to discuss LGBT issues. If you look at the photos in the story the kid isn't dressing like a girl, he's dressing like a flamboyant, side show drag queen.

I say this as the parent of two loved and 100% accepted gay children. Heck, I even love the straight one too.

That's actually a good point that I didn't really consider. His parents may have pushed him in some ways, but the article does state that they sought the advice of a therapist before "accepting" his lifestyle. Reading the article, I had to imagine his parents were wealthy.

 

[Puffnstuff]

If these kids want a drag club they should do it the old fashioned way. Looks like they're having fun to me with their gender identities intact.

 

[interchange]

News flash: kids think about gender and sex before they are ready. And they look at pornography, other people's parts, masturbate, and even have sex at times where they're not really sure what these things are, what they mean for the world, and least of all what they mean for themselves.

We can pretend it doesn't happen and punish people for when it does. We used to do that more. Dunno if it worked better.

Mental health professionals aren't gonna give you an answer, either. Well, some have, but they're bad answers all of them. People who have unstable identities that are tied to self hate, trauma, and fear of rejection by others are at high risk. That happens to be more common among LGBTQ people, and if we look at the attitudes expressed in this thread it's no surprise why. But I can guarantee you you're not going to successfully resolve someone's identity conflict by convincing them of an anatomically determined gender and sexual identity.

 

[pcgeek11]

Probably using the profits from their child sex pizza-shop ring.
Likely those corrupted liberal fascist pedophiles.

So you don't have a real answer so you post bullshit.

 

[woolfe9998]

So you don't have a real answer so you post bullshit.

This "club" is entirely online. It's a facebook page. My guess is it costs something between zero and "very little." Seriously, this kid has an FB page called "Haus of Amazing" where he friends only kids who are LGBT. This doesn't qualify as a news story but YMMV of course.

 

[snoopy7548]

So you don't have a real answer so you post bullshit.

I think we can both agree we don't have any real answers so we both post bullshit.

 

[nakedfrog]

I thought you were supposed to be 13 before you had a Facebook account.

 

[realibrad]

Oh really? My child (and their mom and I) knew something was "different" when they were only 11 or so. So speaking from first hand experience, you're dead wrong.

I'm not saying that its not genetic and that it cannot be observed early. What I am saying is that many transgender people go back and forth as adults because even then they are unsure and trying to fit into either binary does not work for them.

My argument is that exploring your gender so explicitly at such a young age is at best likely fruitless and at worse can cause confusion. Children are ill equipped at 10 years to dive into such a complex subject.

I should also add some context because I think many are under the belief that I'm saying kids can be turned trans or cis, which is silly. I know that as a kid I dressed up as a girl a few times myself albeit slightly older. I have no problem with kids exploring gender given there are constraints so they do not get in over their heads.

 

[jackstar7]

I'm not saying that its not genetic and that it cannot be observed early. What I am saying is that many transgender people go back and forth as adults because even then they are unsure and trying to fit into either binary does not work for them.

My argument is that exploring your gender so explicitly at such a young age is at best likely fruitless and at worse can cause confusion. Children are ill equipped at 10 years to dive into such a complex subject.

I should also add some context because I think many are under the belief that I'm saying kids can be turned trans or cis, which is silly. I know that as a kid I dressed up as a girl a few times myself albeit slightly older. I have no problem with kids exploring gender given there are constraints so they do not get in over their heads.

Stop using the word many. It's vague and you have no basis to suggest there's some substantial amount. You're just making a baseless assertion and following it with more baseless assertions.

 

[realibrad]

The only "emotional issues" one would face would be that from bullies and assholes. Remember? Was already established. As for the 12-year-olds, in the girl's case there could be stigma, self-hate, shame if their parents are religious, someonesmind, or you, and if her peers (or peeps, as you put it) are assholes. Is that how they're meant to be similar? The answer can't be to conform to a cruel and stupid society because it's practical. Don't be ridic.

So tell me how adults have emotional issues dealing with gender identity. Have you spent any time with people in the trans community? Have you observed and talked to people trying to transition? Its very complex with a lot of issues that my not be apparent to you. There is a reason many trans people go back and forth and its not because of pressure from society that, in my experience, has been the main influence. Trans people are often bullied, but when it comes down to them making the decision its usually been in my case not about peer pressure.

They are meant to be similar in the confines of self exploration and the ability of people to understand what they are doing. Self exploration is often very difficult for adults and even harder for younger people with gender identity issues. It does not help given the typical way society treats these people, but its also not only from the outside that they find frictions. This can cause issues long term if not dealt with.

Their link is that sex not being fully decoupled from emotions can lead to many of the same issues.

 

[realibrad]

Apart from the issue of unwanted pregnancy and STD's, which kids are at greater risk for because they may not be aware of birth control, sex involves emotional intimacy with another person that a 12 year old isn't prepared for. Cross-dressing isn't an intimate act. It's an act of self-expression. The only downside I can see is the kid might be bullied by his peers. Because of this, I personally wouldn't allow it for a 10 year old child of my own, would probably make them wait until high school to make that decision. But that doesn't mean I consider it child abuse for another parent to allow it.

To me this is a matter between parent and child. I don't see the general public interest here. What I see is the Daily Fail yet again fear mongering to cultural conservatives. They like to raise the trans boogeyman the same way they do with Muslims.

If that is the only downside you can see, then perhaps you should spend some time with trans people and you will quickly find that there are a lot more issues than peer pressure. Not knowing what category you fit into can be quite stressful to people. Trying to figure out who you "should be" vs what you "are" is quite complex. The should be is a mixture of society and self.

 

[interchange]

I'm not saying that its not genetic and that it cannot be observed early. What I am saying is that many transgender people go back and forth as adults because even then they are unsure and trying to fit into either binary does not work for them.

My argument is that exploring your gender so explicitly at such a young age is at best likely fruitless and at worse can cause confusion. Children are ill equipped at 10 years to dive into such a complex subject.

I should also add some context because I think many are under the belief that I'm saying kids can be turned trans or cis, which is silly. I know that as a kid I dressed up as a girl a few times myself albeit slightly older. I have no problem with kids exploring gender given there are constraints so they do not get in over their heads.

There is psychoanalytic literature on it, and of course there is no consensus. The problem is that there's no way to make it objective, so even really good research doesn't move the needle anyway.

However, the problem with your argument is that kids are exploring their gender and sexuality at that age. A lot of them in secret. It's not like we can turn a switch and have them have no thoughts about gender and sex until they're old enough to navigate it. So we have a choice: do we make the subject taboo and try to repress or deny it, or do we embrace it and try to help them navigate it. Personally I think the best answer is somewhere in between. You make clear your expectations about behavior, boundaries, and safety, and you make yourself an aide to help understand their questions and experiences. And in doing so make certain that you leave room for ambivalence, uncertainty, and reasonable fear of danger (e.g. rape, STDs, child molestation). The only thing I know for certain is that when someone feels they are all alone with something scary and have no hope for even basic understanding, bad things happen. It's not good enough to be open to these conversations when the time comes. We have to make people understand we will be open if we are needed. Otherwise they might not try.

 

[woolfe9998]

If that is the only downside you can see, then perhaps you should spend some time with trans people and you will quickly find that there are a lot more issues than peer pressure. Not knowing what category you fit into can be quite stressful to people. Trying to figure out who you "should be" vs what you "are" is quite complex. The should be is a mixture of society and self.

And you think these issues are not present if you tell the kid who wants to cross dress not to do it?

What exactly qualifies you as an expert on transsexualism?

 

[realibrad]

Stop using the word many. It's vague and you have no basis to suggest there's some substantial amount. You're just making a baseless assertion and following it with more baseless assertions.

No, because there is data on this, as well as what I have observed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192544/

Its not baseless and its also well known that gender and sexual orientation change a lot with trans people. They are dealing with a huge amount of influences so its not unexpected, but you cannot say its baseless.

 

[realibrad]

There is psychoanalytic literature on it, and of course there is no consensus. The problem is that there's no way to make it objective, so even really good research doesn't move the needle anyway.

However, the problem with your argument is that kids are exploring their gender and sexuality at that age. A lot of them in secret. It's not like we can turn a switch and have them have no thoughts about gender and sex until they're old enough to navigate it. So we have a choice: do we make the subject taboo and try to repress or deny it, or do we embrace it and try to help them navigate it. Personally I think the best answer is somewhere in between. You make clear your expectations about behavior, boundaries, and safety, and you make yourself an aide to help understand their questions and experiences. And in doing so make certain that you leave room for ambivalence, uncertainty, and reasonable fear of danger (e.g. rape, STDs, child molestation). The only thing I know for certain is that when someone feels they are all alone with something scary and have no hope for even basic understanding, bad things happen. It's not good enough to be open to these conversations when the time comes. We have to make people understand we will be open if we are needed. Otherwise they might not try.

My stance is not in no way make it taboo. What I am saying is you help these kids navigate while also letting them know that there are things they may not yet be able to fully understand. Having a 10 explore sexuality with other children can be helpful in a lot of situations, but not all.

 

[realibrad]

And you think these issues are not present if you tell the kid who wants to cross dress not to do it?

What exactly qualifies you as an expert on transsexualism?

I never said kids can not explore sexuality. My stance is that Kids are not always able to explore all of sexuality and should be guided when/if they do.

As for being an expert you are an idiot if you think I have tried to make myself seem like an expert.