12 KB in bad sectors

[DasFox]

After a chkdsk it reported in the Event Viewer - Winlogon, 12 KB in bad sectors

Personally when I've seen a report of showing bad sectors like this I change the hard drive.

But now I'm wondering can a part go out, and possibly that is all there will ever be, and the drive will live on ok, or once you get bad sectors more are going to follow sooner or later?

I've been thinking in the meantime to use SpinRite to maybe help the life of the drive.

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.

One of your disks needs to be checked for consistency. You
may cancel the disk check, but it is strongly recommended
that you continue.
Windows will now check the disk.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
Read failure with status 0xc0000185 at offset 0xb79619000 for 0x10000 bytes.
Read failure with status 0xc0000185 at offset 0xb7961a000 for 0x1000 bytes.
Read failure with status 0xc0000185 at offset 0xb7961b000 for 0x10000 bytes.
Read failure with status 0xc0000185 at offset 0xb7961b000 for 0x1000 bytes.
Windows replaced bad clusters in file 74413
of name \PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\MICROS~1\WEBCOM~1\11\1033\OWCDCH11.CHM.
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.
Adding 3 bad clusters to the Bad Clusters File.
CHKDSK discovered free space marked as allocated in the
master file table (MFT) bitmap.
Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap.
Windows has made corrections to the file system.

179767318 KB total disk space.
29762264 KB in 94790 files.
34144 KB in 9074 indexes.
12 KB in bad sectors.
223246 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
149747652 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
44941829 total allocation units on disk.
37436913 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
90 20 02 00 c3 95 01 00 3e 4d 02 00 00 00 00 00 . ......>M......
4a 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 2d 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 J.......-.......
fc f9 d8 08 00 00 00 00 4a bd 5a 48 00 00 00 00 ........J.ZH....
34 77 eb 0e 00 00 00 00 68 03 55 f2 01 00 00 00 4w......h.U.....
f2 00 45 e4 06 00 00 00 1c 3b 5c 3e 09 00 00 00 ..E......;\>....
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 a8 39 07 00 46 72 01 00 ..6......9..Fr..
00 00 00 00 00 60 8b 18 07 00 00 00 72 23 00 00 .....`......r#..

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.
Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.
Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.

179767318 KB total disk space.
29762268 KB in 94791 files.
34144 KB in 9074 indexes.
12 KB in bad sectors.
223246 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
149747648 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
44941829 total allocation units on disk.
37436912 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:
90 20 02 00 c4 95 01 00 3f 4d 02 00 00 00 00 00 . ......?M......
4a 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 2d 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 J.......-.......
34 96 f5 08 00 00 00 00 f0 5a 58 48 00 00 00 00 4........ZXH....
da 14 e9 0e 00 00 00 00 e6 49 03 d0 01 00 00 00 .........I......
88 8c 1e df 06 00 00 00 58 4b a1 16 09 00 00 00 ........XK......
99 9e 36 00 00 00 00 00 a8 39 07 00 47 72 01 00 ..6......9..Gr..
00 00 00 00 00 70 8b 18 07 00 00 00 72 23 00 00 .....p......r#..

Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.


For more information, see Help and Support Center at

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: DasFox
I'm wondering can a part go out, and possibly that is all there will ever be, and the drive will live on ok, or once you get bad sectors more are going to follow sooner or later?

Hate to say it, but my experience has been...

"Once you get bad sectors more are going to follow."

I've RMA'ed drives that are getting bad sectors and manufacturers are more than happy to replace them for free. Sometimes they'll even pay for shipping in both directions.

With drives being as cheap as they are, I'd just buy a new one... and drill holes in your old one, so nobody can harvest data off of it.

Other ppl will probably say that's BS... but that's what I would do.

Just being honest!

 

[C1]

Whenever something like this happens, immediately backup the drive then run the free download SeaTools HDD test. (SeaTools can remap bad clusters which happen once in a blue moon.) Sometimes a disk will just get corrupted for some reason (suspect that sometimes power management is the cause). If the disk tests good, wipe the disk then just do a complete (ie, full/long format) and continue using it but monitor it for a while with frequent scan disk checks. If any further problems are encountered then RMA it.

I have literally a bushel basket of HDDs (all makes & models) and in eight years Ive only lost one 120GB WD HDD. However, I have had two or three data corruption incidents occur that were one time events (no known for sure specific cause) and when once fixed, were not an issue again.

 

[Nothinman]

Once you get alerted about bad sectors that means the drive has replaced a bunch behind your back already and has run out of it's internally set aside replacements. So you've got 12K plus however many replacements the drive came with.

 

[DasFox]

SpinRite's support sent me this email:

Bad sectors are not a problem as long as they are (1) mapped out and
(2) do not start to multiple every time you check the drive.

SpinRite, will effectively do all of the pattern testing, surface
scrubbing, data relocation, DynaStat lost data analysis, mark out bad
sectors, etcetera, to make sure your drive is in proper condition to
store your data. SpinRite is mostly designed to be preventive
maintenance.



I work as a computer tech so I understand the basics here, but what I've always wanted to know is, when a hard drive shows sings of a bad sector does that always mean sooner or later it's going to fail because of problems?

Or can you simply just loose a small amount and that is all that will ever happen, or you should never had bad sectors and anytime they popup it's a bad signs and you should simply replace the drive?

Myself and others as techs have always believed that once you see bad sectors, just don't take chances and just replace the drive, of course maybe the thinking is, WHY take a chance, replace it, get a drive that doesn't report bad sectors and move on.

I have never had one hard drive failure ever, and I have never seen any bad sectors on any of my own drives.

I never really got that deeply into drives, just learned some basics and that's it. For all those years, I've only had my own computers for around 12 years, so 12 years without a problem ever on a drive I think is a pretty good record, so when I see bad sectors, and consider my record of no problems, I just replace drives...

Also as a working tech when a drive has a warranty I figure why bother taking all the time to run the manufacturer's diagnostic tools, and waste all that time, I figure you might as well just RMA it back, but of course if there is no warranty and you don't have the money then you might want to mess around with it.

Someone told me that chkdsk isn't all that reliable and when it shows a problem you should then run the manufacturer's diagnostic tools to make sure, and never really rely on chkdsk for telling you the drive is bad or there is a problem.

In the end, when you have a warranty, I guess why hassle just return it...

Someone told me chkdsk might make fluke reports...

SO....

If chkdsk reports bad sectors there might not even be any, chkdsk, might be in error, it can't be trusted? I have always thought if it reported bad sectors then there were bad sectors, and a problem with the drive...

 

[n7]

I do not believe manufacturers would consider CHKDSK to be a valid diagnosis for a HDD at all.

That said, it's not really a good sign either; i'd consider it a warning sign to keep a closer eye on things.

I have a number of HDDs that have remapped sectors, & a few of those doesn't necessarily mean the drive is failing.
Now as SpinRite has mentioned, if you see more appearing, then you've got issues.

But as long as you don't have more than a few & new ones aren't appearing, i don't get too worried.

I use Speedfan's SMART viewer to keep an eye on my drives, & as soon as i see more than few bad sectors show up, it's then time to pay closer attention & RMA if the manufacturers' tools fail.

 

[degibson]

My 2c: If sectors are going bad, there's a reason why. That reason is almost certainly not limited to the sectors that already went bad. Maybe the platter is spinning at the wrong rate for writing. Maybe the write head is busted. There are lots of reasons, but disk failures are correlated.

 

[DasFox]

Well I'm trying to figure if it's an error actually on the drive, or a user error that generated it. Before the OS had a lot of malware, some viruses and some rootkits on it, then I had the system lockup a few times, and I had to hard power it down with the power switch, so all these things can cause some errors on the drive that chkdsk is reporting as bad when it's not.

Maybe for now I should just do a low level format on it, then run the seagate diagnostic tools on it, and see how it goes...

THANKS

 

[DasFox]

I'm going to grab Seagate's Sea Tools and run the tests on it, and see what it says...

 

[DasFox]

I ran Seagate's Sea Tools on it and it came back with 4 errors but gave me the option to repair them, and the Test Results said, 'Passed after Repair'.

So now what the drive might be ok?

THANKS

 

[lxskllr]

It might be. Just keep a close eye out for more errors, and keep it backed up. I'd fully test the drive once per week until you're sure it's stable. If you get any more errors soon, I'd abandon the drive. It would be too iffy to entrust data to it.

 

[DasFox]

Well I'm going to run SpinRite on it, and see how it goes.

The problem is this is a customers drive I'm working on, not mine. So I'll have to get him to drop it off with me next month to test again.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: DasFox
I ran Seagate's Sea Tools on it and it came back with 4 errors but gave me the option to repair them, and the Test Results said, 'Passed after Repair'.

So now what the drive might be ok?

THANKS

Most likely it just fixed a few pending sectors.

Take a look in Speedfan's SMART data, & hit the "Perform an in-depth online analysis of this hard disk" button, & it'll show a few re-allocated sectors is my guess.

 

[JustaGeek]

CHKDSK has found 1 bad sector on my external hard drive.

I have run it after Nero had reported a problem writing data during back-up.

Seagate has replaced the drive under warranty.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: DasFox
Well I'm trying to figure if it's an error actually on the drive, or a user error that generated it.

If chkdsk /r or the manufacturer's diagnostics detects a bad sector, it's a hardware problem with the drive and not user or program error.

As noted, if bad sectors start developing, there's a reason why. Something on the drive is physically failing. It could be head damage or platter damage (which generate paticles which may cause more damage), or other things. But none of them are going to get better with age. They can only get worse. In this age of $65 TeraByte drives (that's what I just paid for two new ones), I am hesitant to work with a drive that has developed bad sectors.

 

[DasFox]

Well SpinRite didn't show any problems, so that's all I'm running, Seagate Seatools and SpinRite, it's good enough...

JustaGeek what are you talking about 1 bad sector? You mean 1kb in a bad sector

I don't think you have to return a drive, for 1kb. I've never heard of anyone having a problem ever running anything with just 1kb bad. Errors are built into drivers it's just a fact of life, and the larger they are getting packing more into smaller spaces, reliability drops a bit...

RebateMonger I've seen bad sectors pop up a lot with people that had virus/malware problems, which I suspect caused it.

From what I had thought in the past, these bad sectors may be nothing more then bad file structure from malware messing up the drive and nothing more, and not hardware problems...

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: DasFox

JustaGeek what are you talking about 1 bad sector? You mean 1kb in a bad sector

I don't think you have to return a drive, for 1kb. I've never heard of anyone having a problem ever running anything with just 1kb bad. Errors are built into drivers it's just a fact of life, and the larger they are getting packing more into smaller spaces, reliability drops a bit...

...

I do not remember the exact wording of the report, but it all started with the NERO write errors. That's why I ran the CHKDSK on a relatively new external hard drive...

 

[DasFox]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

Originally posted by: DasFox

JustaGeek what are you talking about 1 bad sector? You mean 1kb in a bad sector

I don't think you have to return a drive, for 1kb. I've never heard of anyone having a problem ever running anything with just 1kb bad. Errors are built into drivers it's just a fact of life, and the larger they are getting packing more into smaller spaces, reliability drops a bit...

...

I do not remember the exact wording of the report, but it all started with the NERO write errors. That's why I ran the CHKDSK on a relatively new external hard drive...

Nero, what does that have to do with a hard drive? This is for your cd/dvd rom...

What were you doing with Nero when you saw these read errors, sounds more like an issue with a bad cd/dvd or a rom drive, not a hard drive.

 

[JustaGeek]

NERO BackItUp - it is a back-up module of NERO.

You can use it with the CD/DVD, or the Hard Drives as targets.

 

[KGB]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: DasFox
Well I'm trying to figure if it's an error actually on the drive, or a user error that generated it.

If chkdsk /r or the manufacturer's diagnostics detects a bad sector, it's a hardware problem with the drive and not user or program error.

As noted, if bad sectors start developing, there's a reason why. Something on the drive is physically failing. It could be head damage or platter damage (which generate paticles which may cause more damage), or other things. But none of them are going to get better with age. They can only get worse. In this age of $65 TeraByte drives (that's what I just paid for two new ones), I am hesitant to work with a drive that has developed bad sectors.

Listen to Rebate Monger. Bad sectors are always a cascading failure scenario. There is physical damage to the head or platters which only gets worse with usage.

If the drive is under warranty, simply RMA it and get a replacement. If it's not under warranty just get another drive.

I don't know why you seem reluctant to accept that there is permanent damage. You appear to be making excuses and in denial.

 

[DasFox]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek
NERO BackItUp - it is a back-up module of NERO.

You can use it with the CD/DVD, or the Hard Drives as targets.

Ahh ok, when you said Nero I was thinking only the CD burning aspects...

Originally posted by: KGBMAN

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: DasFox
Well I'm trying to figure if it's an error actually on the drive, or a user error that generated it.

If chkdsk /r or the manufacturer's diagnostics detects a bad sector, it's a hardware problem with the drive and not user or program error.

As noted, if bad sectors start developing, there's a reason why. Something on the drive is physically failing. It could be head damage or platter damage (which generate paticles which may cause more damage), or other things. But none of them are going to get better with age. They can only get worse. In this age of $65 TeraByte drives (that's what I just paid for two new ones), I am hesitant to work with a drive that has developed bad sectors.

Listen to Rebate Monger. Bad sectors are always a cascading failure scenario. There is physical damage to the head or platters which only gets worse with usage.

If the drive is under warranty, simply RMA it and get a replacement. If it's not under warranty just get another drive.

I don't know why you seem reluctant to accept that there is permanent damage. You appear to be making excuses and in denial.

No one said anyone was reluctant about anything, or in denial, or making any excuses about anything.

You should LEARN to READ better next time...

I'm only stating that it is also a fact that a small amount of sectors can die just one time, and that is it, nothing will ever happen again...

No you are wrong, bad sectors are not always a cascading failure scenario. Who told you this? Show me one major hard drive manufacture that says this?

There are times when it can happen, that it's a sympton of more things to come, and then it might just be a small death of clusters that never appears again in the entire life of the drive.

Replacing a drive should be dependant on a few things.

1. Who is using the drive, home user, business?
2. How critical is it to change out the drive?
3. Is there a warranty still on the drive?

Depending on the situation, simply put, if it's Granny surfing AOL, and chatting with grandkids, and there is nothing critical going on, and in case Grandma does have pictures of the kiddies, have this person backup files to a usb stick, cd/dvd, portable hard drive, etc., after all doing backups no matter who you are, or in what situation is good.

If this is something mission critical, or whatever the case may be and you don't want to fool around, take chances, etc., then sure, buy a new one or RMA it back if you are still under warranty.

 

[bsobel]

From what I had thought in the past, these bad sectors may be nothing more then bad file structure from malware messing up the drive and nothing more, and not hardware problems...

Some malware hides itself by writing to free space and then marking the free space as bad blocks. This is why chkdsk /r or a similar surface tests clears those falsely marked bad areas.