Suspected Colorado gunman's family stands by son, attorney says
The attorney for the family of suspected Colorado gunman James Holmes said Monday his family continues to stand by him.
"Yes, they do, he's their son," Lisa Damiani said in response to reporters' questions about whether they support the 24-year-old suspect, who appeared in a Colorado courtroom Monday looking dazed.
Holmes is a suspect in the shooting rampage that killed 12 and injured 58 inside an Aurora, Colo., movie theater.
Regardless, we will NEVER know if a CCW engagement would have changed the outcome. We will NEVER know if stricter gun control laws would have changed the outcome. What we do know is that getting shot with just about anything while wearing body armor hurts. Pain elicits a response that COULD have changed the outcome here. Maybe that's talking semantics, but far too much of this discussion makes it seem like this guy was some invincible force and that gun control laws are to blame and virtuall NO ONE here knows most of the facts involve. I know what I know based on my military training and experience.
Why? Wouldn't shooting up a theater filled with people qualify as an insane act?
§ 16-8-101.5. Insanity defined--offenses committed on and after July 1, 1995
(1) The applicable test of insanity shall be:
(a) A person who is so diseased or defective in mind at the time of the commission of the act as to be incapable of distinguishing right from wrong with respect to that act is not accountable; except that care should be taken not to confuse such mental disease or defect with moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives and kindred evil conditions, for, when the act is induced by any of these causes, the person is accountable to the law; or
(b) A person who suffered from a condition of mind caused by mental disease or defect that prevented the person from forming a culpable mental state that is an essential element of a crime charged, but care should be taken not to confuse such mental disease or defect with moral obliquity, mental depravity, or passion growing out of anger, revenge, hatred, or other motives and kindred evil conditions because, when the act is induced by any of these causes, the person is accountable to the law.
(2) As used in subsection (1) of this section:
(a) “Diseased or defective in mind” does not refer to an abnormality manifested only by repeated criminal or otherwise antisocial conduct.
(b) “Mental disease or defect” includes only those severely abnormal mental conditions that grossly and demonstrably impair a person's perception or understanding of reality and that are not attributable to the voluntary ingestion of alcohol or any other psychoactive substance but does not include an abnormality manifested only by repeated criminal or otherwise antisocial conduct.
(3) This section shall apply to offenses committed on or after July 1, 1995.
Dr Pizza,
I concur that a CCW owner may have made a difference here. Hell, someone simply tackling the fucking guy would be hailed as a hero right now. The facts are, none of that happened and its specious at best to talk of anything other than the facts.
The bottom line in this thread is that people have a serious, fundamental misunderstanding of the capabilities of weapons, body armor, human behavior, etc. I don't give a fuck if a 9mm CCW would have been stopped by his vest, it would have at minimum drawn his attention away from shooting unarmed people and toward someone willing to fight back.
Then I had people basically laugh off the impact of a concussion or broken ribs, clearly they've never really experienced either. Those take Soldiers out of the fight all the time and they have some of the best body armor, physical training, and mental preparation available. I offer to shoot anyone on this board with whatever weapon they choose while they wear body armor and/or helmet and we will see if they are so confident in the protection that this scumbag had in relation to the impact of a CCW response in this scenario. People think body armor makes one invincible, rather, it is intended almost solely to save someone's life with as little damage to the body as possible.
Per ATOT protocol though, there's a lot of people sounding like they know what the fuck they are talking about, but they've NEVER actually experienced it. So, in summary, there's a lot of dumb fuckers running off at the mouth with zero knowledge, training, or experience in what they're talking about.
Again, being insane alone does not qualify someone to be not guilty by reason of insanity. I suspect every single spree killer or serial killer is a person with a seriously diseased mind, and that not only would you or I say such a person is crazy, such a person would in fact be diagnosably mentally ill. This does not necessarily mean they have a legal insanity defense, however.
The legal test at common law (and in CO) is whether, at the time of the offense, Holmes was suffering from a mental illness such that he was unable to appreciate the nature of his actions or the fact that they were wrong. I think Holmes will have a hard time getting a jury to believe that he meets the legal standard due to the fact that he was apparently fairly well socialized, and the crime itself involved such elaborate planning - both of these seem inconsistent with him being so psychotic that he was unable to understand what he was doing or why it was wrong.
FYI, since (bizarrely) it appears the CO legislature doesn't make its statutes available for free online, here is the applicable statute:
Do you think the defense will start off with a competency hearing?
Totally depends on whether they feel he's competent to assist in his own defense. By all accounts he was interacting socially as recently as last week, so I would expect he is probably competent - it's a very low standard. Where I have had clients who were found not competent it always related to their being so depressed that they couldn't make intelligent decisions to assist in their defense, and they've always been found competent in fairly short order thereafter.
I'm curious to see this play out. I understand the issues you laid out WRT insanity but the defense will have to figure something out. I want to see what it is.
"Yes, they do, he's their son," Lisa Damiani said in response to reporters' questions about whether they support the 24-year-old suspect, who appeared in a Colorado courtroom Monday looking dazed.
Classic enablers, no wonder he had problems.
I would think any decent parent would support their son in this situation
The studio behind 'The Dark Knight Rises' has been in contact with the state governor's office and will make a lump sum contribution.
Sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that the studio has been in contact with Colorodo governor John Hickenlooper's office and will contribute to a fund identified by the governor on the website givingfirst.org, which is a program of Colorado's Community First Foundation. The fund distributes monies across several charities that will support victims of the July 20 killing spree that left at least 12 dead and dozens injured.
PHOTOS: 'The Dark Knight Rises' Premiere: Bale, Hathaway, Gordon-Levitt, Hardy Celebrate Nolan's Final Batman Film
The studio will not release publically the amount of the lump sum donation but sources say it is "substantial."
Warner Bros. CEO Barry Meyer also is set to send a companywide email on Monday evening advising employees of the donation and explaining how they can donate personally to the victims.
Warner Bros. has reactived swiftly in the wake of the July 20 killing spree at a midnight screening of the latest Batman movie. The studio quickly released a statement saying that Warners "and the filmmakers are deeply saddened to learn about this shocking incident. We extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time."
The studio then declined to release box office figures for Dark Knight Rises over the weekend out of respect for the families of the victims. The Christopher Nolan-directed film grossed a robust $160.9 million in three days, the best opening ever for a 2D film.
Warners is the first of the Hollywood organizations to make a charitable gift. Cinemark, which owns the Century Aurora 16 theater where the shooting took place, has yet to announce any donation, nor has the MPAA or the National Association of Theatre Owners.
Tampa (SchnittShow.com) – Within just a few short hours of surgery on his foot Monday, Aurora, CO shooting victim, Pierce O’Farrill tells nationally-syndicated radio host, Todd Schnitt, that he wants to talk to the shooter, James Holmes.
In the exclusive “Schnitt Show” interview, O’Farrill, who was shot three times, recalls the horror in vivid detail and says,“I would like to talk to him. I do forgive him.” As for the possibility of the death penalty in this case, O’Farrill says, “I don’t think he should have the death penalty – life in prison would be a more suitable sentence.”
O’Farrill, who was wounded by each of Holmes’ three weapons, also tells Schnitt that despite this tragedy, he is still a staunch proponent of the Second Amendment.
O’Farill was among the 58 victims who survived the shooting, and he appreciates the visit he got yesterday in the hospital from President Obama.
I wouldn't say that based on this alone. He's their son and I'm sure they love him. He apparently has never had trouble with the law before. I would guess they are as devastated by this incident as anyone, and I'm sure they don't support what he (allegedly) did, but I would think any decent parent would support their son in this situation. "Supporting" him doesn't necessarily mean believing he shouldn't go to prison for the rest of his life.
Hope this at least will help the families somewhat.
...and then, a more forgiving soul than I.
Many of you have also asked how you can contribute. Regardless of whether you reside inside or outside the United States, donations are being accepted through www.givingfirst.org (a program of the Community First Foundation). Please click on the link and then on the box “Support Victims of the Aurora shooting.” From there, you can choose “Community First Foundation - Aurora Victim Relief Fund” to make your contribution.
If the defense can't find an expert to say he is not guilty by reason of insanity, they will either have to seek a plea deal that will let him escape the death penalty by pleading guilty (and I suspect the DA might refuse to enter into such a deal), or try to get a jury to sentence him to something less by presenting mitigating evidence (e.g., that he was abused as a kid, under great stress, or other things of that nature). Personally, if I were taking the latter route, I would probably still try to talk him into pleading guilty so the jury would not be deciding his fate after weeks and weeks of hearing about his awful killing spree.
Excuse my ignorance, but I am hard-pressed to call someone mentally insane for carefully planning this and even creating what appeared to be a distraction (rigged crib) so that law enforcement would not be able to stop him at the theater before he killed everyone.
What I saw this morning was probably a man playing on the insanity card as a trump card to basically get away with it.
I would tied him to the lethal injection chair tomorrow, faking an immediate death sentence and I bet we see the real guy come out.
Seriously, just a thought...
As I said, I don't think an insanity defense is likely to be successful here, but his lawyers have an ethical duty to do their best to save his life. The insanity defense appears to be their only possible route toward keeping a needle out of his arm.
Jul 24, 1:00 AM
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EXCLUSIVE: First Lawsuit Over James Holmes Massacre
One of the victims in the James Holmes mass murder spree has lawyered up and plans to file a lawsuit ... because he feels the theater dropped the ball in a very fatal way.Torrence Brown, Jr. was in Century 16 Theater when Holmes let loose.* One of Brown's best friends, A.J. Boik, was shot in the chest and died.* Brown, who was not physically injured, claims to now suffer from extreme trauma.Brown has hired attorney Donald Karpel to rep him.* Karpel tells TMZ ... he is targeting 3 defendants.1.* The theater.* Karpel claims it was negligent for the theater to have an emergency door in the front that was not alarmed or guarded.* It's widely believed Holmes entered the theater with a ticket,* propped the emergency door open from inside, went to his car and returned with guns.2.* Holmes' doctors.* Karpel says it appears Holmes was on several medications -- prescribed by one or more doctors --* at the time of the shooting and he believes the docs did not properly monitor Holmes. 3.* Warner Bros.* Karpel says "Dark Knight Rises" was particularly violent and Holmes mimicked some of the action.* The attorney says theater goers were helpless because they thought the shooter was part of the movie.* Karpel tells TMZ, "Somebody has to be responsible for the rampant violence that is shown today."
Well that didn't take long
Yes. Someone has to be responsible. Maybe the mother fucker that actually fired the bullets.
I wouldn't say that based on this alone. He's their son and I'm sure they love him. He apparently has never had trouble with the law before. I would guess they are as devastated by this incident as anyone, and I'm sure they don't support what he (allegedly) did, but I would think any decent parent would support their son in this situation. "Supporting" him doesn't necessarily mean believing he shouldn't go to prison for the rest of his life.