12 story apartment building suddenly collapses in Miami

[Zorba]

A 40 year old building with "abundant cracking and spalling" in like the entire visible load bearing structure and numerous crystal clear signs of settling.....

Condo board moved waaaay too slowly once they saw that report.

The board requires funding and WaPo is reporting residents were fighting against funding the project. Condo boards can't just pull money out of thin air, and even if people do vote on increased dues, unless they vote to take on loans it takes awhile to accumulate the funds on a monthly basis. It would've also taken at least a year to get the repair plans created.

HOAs are treated like every other branch of governence. People don't want to fund them, people don't want them to have any control, but they want them to fix every problem immediately.

 

[Zorba]

Yea, they also maintain the roads. The problem, they also pay property taxes based on market value, which a portion of which is for street maintenance. So they double pay for services.

I pay property taxes, and the city and county provide all the services they have, less mowing and shoveling snow.

Your friend moved into a neighborhood with private roads, the city doesn't pay a dime to maintain them. So he is not double paying, you and maybe him have no idea how even the basics of HOAs, neighborhoods, and city development work, but that doesn't stop you from taking shit just like a good little government hating republican.

Even still of her is paying $500/month on a single family there is more than snow removal, roads and mowing. Is he actually in a townhouse that takes care of outdoor maintenance too?

 

[MtnMan]

Not sure what taking care of a neighborhood has to do with a man card. My property value would be shit if the playground was falling apart, the pool was closed for safety violations and the greenbelts were 3 feet tall. Not to mention we'd be having leins put on the homeowners by the city for numerous violations and repairs.

Ponds are required by cities for storm water detention, the city then dumps the responsibility for maintaining it on the neighborhoods, along with all the drainage into and out of it. Tell your friends to go to the HOA meetings and actually look at the budgets, if they are wasting money they can join the board and fix the issues. Maintenance is expensive and I'm guessing if they do the mowing he has private roads maintained by the HOA, which is big bucks. Also guessing, he knew the deal when he moved in and just likes bitching about it after the fact.

Parks and Rec take care of pools, parks, greenways, and playgrounds. Few retention ponds here in the mountains, mostly for large parking lots.

And I can paint my house any fucking color I want, or fly any flag that I want to. I don't have to get approval to plant a bush, or take one out.

My friend is actually the treasurer of the HOA.

 

[Zorba]

Parks and Rec take care of pools, parks, greenways, and playgrounds. Few retention ponds here in the mountains, mostly for large parking lots.

And I can paint my house any fucking color I want, or fly any flag that I want to. I don't have to get approval to plant a bush, or take one out.

My friend is actually the treasurer of the HOA.

What do you know, I can do the same!

No way your city takes care of private neighborhood parks and pools.

 

[brycejones]

What do you know, I can do the same!

No way your city takes care of private neighborhood parks and pools.

The property taxes his friend pays also cover the other roads in the city. Again not paying double for the road in front of his house.

 

[MtnMan]

What do you know, I can do the same!

No way your city takes care of private neighborhood parks and pools.

We had a membership to a "private" pool, and tennis courts, when it fit our needs/wants, but it was not mandatory that I paid dues. I no longer have that expense for something I no longer use. There are any number of public and private pools, pay admission or join or not. Can't say there is a "private" park/playground anywhere, but plenty of parks and playgrounds.

 

[MtnMan]

The property taxes his friend pays also cover the other roads in the city. Again not paying double for the road in front of his house.

The city maintains the "city street" in front of my house. Salts/sands in bad weather, etc. If part of an HOA fee was also for street maintenance, then yes I would be paying double for street maintenance.

 

[Zorba]

The city maintains the "city street" in front of my house. Salts/sands in bad weather, etc. If part of an HOA fee was also for street maintenance, then yes I would be paying double for street maintenance.

You have a public road, he has a private road. Not double. Generally private roads have gated access, but sometimes are private in zero lot line neighborhoods because they don't meet city standards. Anyone in the world can drive on the road in front of your house or walk on the right of way next to it in your yard. That is not true for a private road, where only authorized people can use it and there is no public right of way.

Again, your really have no idea what you're talking about and should really stop. If you are affraid of the big bad HOAs don't live in one, pretty easy. But stop spending nonsense about something you know nothing about.

 

[brycejones]

The city maintains the "city street" in front of my house. Salts/sands in bad weather, etc. If part of an HOA fee was also for street maintenance, then yes I would be paying double for street maintenance.

The portion of your or your friend’s property taxes that pay for streets go towards all the public streets in your city. It covers far more than the few feet front of your house. Double payment still not found.

 

[HomerJS]

Biggest story of the week and Fox News Sunday didn't even mention. They spent the entire hour beating up Biden over rising gun crime and the border.

 

[Jhhnn]

Biggest story of the week and Fox News Sunday didn't even mention. They spent the entire hour beating up Biden over rising gun crime and the border.

How else are you gonna sell more guns?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Aren't inspectors supposed to be trustworthy?

Surfside Official Told Residents Their Building Was Safe, Despite Engineer's Warning

An engineering report in Oct. 2018 warned of "major structural damage" in the Florida building that collapsed last week. The next month, a town inspector said the building was in "very good shape."

www.npr.org

 

[hal2kilo]

The board requires funding and WaPo is reporting residents were fighting against funding the project. Condo boards can't just pull money out of thin air, and even if people do vote on increased dues, unless they vote to take on loans it takes awhile to accumulate the funds on a monthly basis. It would've also taken at least a year to get the repair plans created.

HOAs are treated like every other branch of governence. People don't want to fund them, people don't want them to have any control, but they want them to fix every problem immediately.

Condos can practically bankrupt the poor people who got snookered into a bad project. They were probably looking at ridiculous costs. Timeshares and condos how they were ever allowed to legally exist is beyond me (time shares especially).

 

[Zorba]

Condos can practically bankrupt the poor people who got snookered into a bad project. They were probably looking at ridiculous costs. Timeshares and condos how they were ever allowed to legally exist is beyond me (time shares especially).

Yeah, you definitely open yourself up to completely open ended costs and risks, where the current owners have incentive to defer as much as possible.

My friend is on the board of his townhouse complex. The developer set the dues way low to sell the units. When my friend moved in dues were 136/mo, which was enough to keep things going but basically had zero reserves for major projects. Then the units needed new roofs and new paint, no money. They brought a "reserve analysis company" to figure out what they needed and ended up having to raise dues to 375/mo to cover everything needed in the next 10 years.

Still much better with a townhouse project than a high-rise condo building.

That said, the HOA taking care of the outside saves him about $110/mo on insurance alone.

 

[Thump553]

People here aren't looking at the big picture. Rather than squabble over whether the HOA should have moved faster on the needed repairs and jacked up the monthly fees (assuming that could be rammed through a member vote) to me the real issues are (1) why is the city approving building of large buildings on insufficient foundations in such areas in the first place? Does money and growth trump public safety in "less government" states? and (2) the whole issue of the government's whitewash of the problems AFTER the engineering study.

We've been buildings much bigger than this for well over a century, it's not like forty years ago we thought building on shifting sand was fine.

Should be interesting also to see how rising water tables in FL due to global warming will come into the blame game to follow.

 

[Leeea]

They brought a "reserve analysis company" to figure out what they needed and ended up having to raise dues to 375/mo to cover everything needed in the next 10 years.

fyi $375 / month is a good rate, that is a well managed place

and bringing in a reserve analysis company feels like BS, but it is actually a sign the condo has there act together. Those typically run a few thousand dollars, and getting that through is a sign of a functional community.

 

[pmv]

Condos can practically bankrupt the poor people who got snookered into a bad project. They were probably looking at ridiculous costs. Timeshares and condos how they were ever allowed to legally exist is beyond me (time shares especially).

Can't say I understand anything about the system you are talking about but it sounds very much like the freehold/leasehold arrangement over here. So many opportunities for scams and exploitative contracts.

 

[woolfe9998]

10 officially deceased/151 still unaccounted for five days after the event? Those 151 are probably all dead. I know they had a fire at the site which had impeded their rescue effort? This must be frustrating for the families of all the missing people.

 

[Zorba]

People here aren't looking at the big picture. Rather than squabble over whether the HOA should have moved faster on the needed repairs and jacked up the monthly fees (assuming that could be rammed through a member vote) to me the real issues are (1) why is the city approving building of large buildings on insufficient foundations in such areas in the first place? Does money and growth trump public safety in "less government" states? and (2) the whole issue of the government's whitewash of the problems AFTER the engineering study.

We've been buildings much bigger than this for well over a century, it's not like forty years ago we thought building on shifting sand was fine.

Should be interesting also to see how rising water tables in FL due to global warming will come into the blame game to follow.

Yeah, I agree. This is the real issue. And why is there no oversight/required annual inspections outside the board itself.

This is something I've noticed here, the city let's developers build things cheap and leave the homeowners holding the bag, even with the neighborhood infrastructure. Really bad with private roads, city figures they don't have to deal with the issues so will approve anything that looks like a road. I've seen quite a few that have dirt patches after just 5 years.

 

[pmv]

People here aren't looking at the big picture. Rather than squabble over whether the HOA should have moved faster on the needed repairs and jacked up the monthly fees (assuming that could be rammed through a member vote) to me the real issues are (1) why is the city approving building of large buildings on insufficient foundations in such areas in the first place? Does money and growth trump public safety in "less government" states? and (2) the whole issue of the government's whitewash of the problems AFTER the engineering study.

We've been buildings much bigger than this for well over a century, it's not like forty years ago we thought building on shifting sand was fine.

Should be interesting also to see how rising water tables in FL due to global warming will come into the blame game to follow.

Kind-of reminiscent of Grenfell. Perhaps similar issues?

 

[Jhhnn]

10 officially deceased/151 still unaccounted for five days after the event? Those 151 are probably all dead. I know they had a fire at the site which had impeded their rescue effort? This must be frustrating for the families of all the missing people.

They might yet pull a survivor or few out of the wreckage but that's extremely unlikely.

 

[woolfe9998]

They might yet pull a survivor or few out of the wreckage but that's extremely unlikely.

So you're saying that with ~160 dead, they can only get bodily confirmation of ~10? Hmm. How many did we pull out of the 2 towers wreckage?

 

[Jhhnn]

So you['re saying that with ~160 dead, they can only get bodily confirmation of ~10? Hmm. How many did we pull out of the 2 towers wreckage?

It's 10 so far. They have to peel off the layers of wreckage to get to the remains. It won't take as long as it did after the 9/11 attack because the building was a lot smaller.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

They might yet pull a survivor or few out of the wreckage but that's extremely unlikely.

So you['re saying that with ~160 dead, they can only get bodily confirmation of ~10? Hmm. How many did we pull out of the 2 towers wreckage?

Why would they need 'bodily confirmation' of any survivors?

Is it likely anyone is still alive? No.

Is it possible? Maybe. Some have been pulled out of Earthquake rubble around the world after several days.

Will bodies of victims be identifiable without forensics? Maybe if found soon. Another few days and decay will make that less likely.

Some bodies may have been mangled beyond recognition the moment it happened.

 

[woolfe9998]

Why would they need 'bodily confirmation' of any survivors?

Is it likely anyone is still alive? No.

Is it possible? Maybe. Some have been pulled out of Earthquake rubble around the world after several days.

Will bodies of victims be identifiable without forensics? Maybe if found soon. Another few days and decay will make that less likely.

Some bodies may have been mangled beyond recognition the moment it happened.

Because their families might want to bury their remains?

DNA can confirm.