The columns sticking up out of the pool deck was quite shocking to me. As he said, something was terribly wrong at these points. No rebar seen sticking out, like they just sheared.
The columns sticking up out of the pool deck was quite shocking to me. As he said, something was terribly wrong at these points. No rebar seen sticking out, like they just sheared.I watched the whole thing, it's analysis of the available visual evidence with the building plans of the garage. If you watch the last few minutes, that's about all you'll need to know as he summarizes his theory. Basically, due to some design flaws, standing water was slowly seeping into the concrete base around the center of the complex. It's likely that the rebar had rusted and the concrete supporting the building had deteriorated to a point of failure (beginning near the center). He also pointed out that the support beams for the part of the building that was still standing were thicker than the rest.
So there really isn't any conspiracy theory; he's just saying that the root cause of the collapse wasn't the pool itself and that makes sense since the pool is at the corner of the property and remained intact. The flat design of the entire pool deck was likely the root cause, as predicted by the 2018 engineering report.
Sure, the engineer pointed out likely failure points. As for those skinny columns, it's not like they snapped like twigs but rather the deck/ground floor gave way and collapsed. Like any other disaster of this magnitude, they will ultimately find numerous failures chained together. Design flaws, perhaps construction that couldn't hold up 40 years in that environment, lax regulation and condo owners/board who dragged their feet for years due to the heavy costs of repairs.The columns sticking up out of the pool deck was quite shocking to me. As he said, something was terribly wrong at these points. No rebar seen sticking out, like they just sheared.
after hearing the condition it was in and the bickering about the cost, probably both. sounds like maintenance had been neglected for years, maybe since it was built.Interestingly, even after the $15M in repairs was finally agreed upon, they started work up on the roof. Was the condo board still not fully aware of how bad a shape the concrete was in, or was the roof also in terrible shape itself?
Yeah, as a PE myself, he didn't really come of as very knowledgeable, but at least in that video he didn't really get into the why just mostly went over the sequence of events. I need to go find those plans and look at them myself.Well, it certainly is a compelling conspiracy theory . Thank you for linking it.
( I watched the whole thing, but I am wary of YouTube, things can be very persuasive and completely wrong )
This is common in my experience. I've done a fair bit of work for HOA's and money is always a huge issue.after hearing the condition it was in and the bickering about the cost, probably both. sounds like maintenance had been neglected for years, maybe since it was built.
You do know the owners are the condo association right? Owners not wanting to pay more dues is why the maintenance was neglected.I would not be surprised at all if this happens again and again in condos built along the coast. Shoddy construction and cutting corners on costs will be a death knell for many condos before it's over. You pay a price for being right on the water, and in the case of Florida in many parts of the state that are not directly on the coast they are building on top of a huge aquifer. What could go wrong? It is very sad that so many people lost their lives in Surfside and they should not have died if the condo association had not been so cheap to do the needed repairs. I know if I had been an owner I definitely would not have liked to contribute beyond the dues i was already paying to help with the repairs.
Yeah half of the condo board had resigned over a year ago because negotiations with condo owners were going nowhere. The now discredited city inspector basically told everyone the building is fine. Economically, it's understandable as none of the owners would have predicted total catastrophic collapse. By the time all the work was agreed upon, owners were each facing a special assessment of $200k to $600k IIRC, which seems like a staggering amount.You do know the owners are the condo association right? Owners not wanting to pay more dues is why the maintenance was neglected.
Just like with all other taxes people want HOAs to provide infinite services with no costs.
60 to 160, with an average of 90k. Still a ton of money, but when the building has had no maintenance for years, that's what happens.Yeah half of the condo board had resigned over a year ago because negotiations with condo owners were going nowhere. The now discredited city inspector basically told everyone the building is fine. Economically, it's understandable as none of the owners would have predicted total catastrophic collapse. By the time all the work was agreed upon, owners were each facing a special assessment of $200k to $600k IIRC, which seems like a staggering amount.
You do know the owners are the condo association right? Owners not wanting to pay more dues is why the maintenance was neglected.
Just like with all other taxes people want HOAs to provide infinite services with no costs.
Looks like they are starting to do just that:Does homeowner insurance cover the loss for each condo owner?
Note to anyone buying in a highrise. Demand to see all HOA inspections and related emails.
Possibly what happens is that past owners refuse to pay enough to maintain the building properly, and then a deficit of work-not-done builds up over many years, and the individual properties change hands with the new owners not getting a full survey done before buying it (is it the norm in the US to pay for a full structural 'survey' before buying a property? I'm guessing even if it is, it might be more difficult if it's an entire block that has to be evaluated whenever anyone buys a single apartment in it). Then a later generation of owners suddenly find they are facing a huge bill for all the backlog of work not done because past owners were not prepared to pay for it.
you would think, to protect their investment, the owners would insist on regular inspections and repair anything found amiss. in my experience it's cheaper to fix things as they appear than to let it accumulate multiple problems over time.Its normal for single family homes to have a basic inspection. Or it was. Around here people from out of state have been buying with cash offers and waiving the inspection contingencies recently which is crazy.
No idea about buildings though. I could have seen myself just assuming that some one else handled that but maybe not if I was in Florida, an utterly bizarre place.
Looks like they are starting to do just that:
‘Should We Sell?’ After Collapse, Hot Florida Market Faces Uncertainty. (Published 2021)
The partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Fla., has plunged older beachside condos and high-rise buildings like it into a swirl of apprehension.www.nytimes.com
Real estate agents across the region are already seeing ripple effects from the disaster.
“No one ever asked about a 40-year recertification before,” Ines Hegedus-Garcia, a real estate agent with Avanti Way Realty in South Florida, said of the process of assessing the structural condition of buildings constructed decades ago. “Nobody ever did that, but buyers are now asking for that.”
Cordelia Anderson, a Miami real estate agent, said five clients who had been looking at units in older condo buildings asked for hefty discounts after the collapse, or abandoned the coast altogether and instead wanted to search farther inland.
Structural engineers are already all over this. Lawsuits will fly, insurance companies will want their own investigations, and will need structural engineers as consultants/expert witnesses.It is a market opportunity for structural engineers. Any buyer is going to want to employ their own rather then take the cities word for it.
you would think, to protect their investment, the owners would insist on regular inspections and repair anything found amiss. in my experience it's cheaper to fix things as they appear than to let it accumulate multiple problems over time.
Its even cheaper to not fix anything and then unload the rotting mess on some other sucker, probably after the price has greatly appreciated with the market.
I was thinking a minute ago that a lot of condos seem to be investments of one kind or another, and usually not really long term ones. Even for people living in them they might be a short ~5 year investment/home. None of those people are going to be to keen on paying to do 40 years worth of deferred maintenance all at once. Heck, people who want to live there for a long time might decide to vote no and sell the place rather than deal with it.
I remembered wrong yesterday, but according to CNN, the range was $80k to $336k for the penthouse:60 to 160, with an average of 90k. Still a ton of money, but when the building has had no maintenance for years, that's what happens.
I thought there was a news blurb that the North property was inspected, and it passed muster? Apparently they're doing a thorough review:Have y'all picked up on the renewed inspections at the sister building? Checking to see if the similar construction is showing the same issues.
These are condos for the middle class. The ones for the elite and rich, just a block away sell for multimillion per condo.60 to 160, with an average of 90k. Still a ton of money, but when the building has had no maintenance for years, that's what happens.
They aren't tenants, they are owners. They can get a mortgage to pay it, etc. Sucks, but that is how it works and everyone signed on to that when they bought in.These are condos for the middle class. The ones for the elite and rich, just a block away sell for multimillion per condo.
A 90K "assessment" on top of what ever their HOA assessments already were would break some tenants.
They aren't tenants, they are owners. They can get a mortgage to pay it, etc. Sucks, but that is how it works and everyone signed on to that when they bought in.