120Hz Displays

[QuantumPion]

I have the LG and have been liking it a lot. I miss the quality of an IPS but I doubt I could go back to 60 hz.

 

[jackstar7]

i've got an S23A950D in my online shopping cart. come April, i'm gonna press the Buy button. sadly, after taxes and all it costs the equivalent of 600$ here

Why the 950? The 750 or 700 both use the same panel from what I've read and have a more standard-ish base, and can have either DVI or DP depending on your needs... and all for $300 (on sale) right now...

 

[elvn]

Hi. I registered since I read this thread a few times and have borrowed a few pictures from it to illustrate the points made here elsewhere. The blur photos are simulations and I believe both were defined as such in their posts. They are fairly accurate but don't show the blur/smear ghosting outside of the onscreen objects.
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Here is an actual photo I borrowed from another forum. It shows a fw900 graphics professional crt in the middle of two 23" 120hz samsung lcds during the skyrim afk FoV endless spinning. The lcds blur while the crt does not. It pretty much sums it up. That said, I do own a 120hz samsung and they are appreciably better than a 60hz but still blur.
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Anyone ever run the Pixperan program before: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/testsoftware/pixperan.html

On the readability test of super fast text there is a speed scale from 0 to 30 (30 being fastest). On the FW900 I can read the text at speed 30, and on the 2ms 120Hz Samsung's, it's 4!

I knew CRT's were always faster at movement, but not this much faster...

I was guessing on the 5 speed myself when I ran the same test on my 120hz samsung.

Its the smear/blur during motion. CRT has none. LCD's have it bad. If you run the readable moving text test on your screen you would see 60hz lcd unreadable at the first few speed increases, and the 120hz lcd would get maybe one more speed increase out of it. The crt would be readable to max speed since it doesn't blur. Now consider an entire scene of 3d objects and consider objects and modern high detail texture detail "read" by your eyes, including virtual depth via bump mapping. Every time you move your FoV quickly, an LCD will smear that out. On a 120hz, at least the blur goes out of bounds less from the outline of the object if you get what I mean.
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.So this isn't about frames per second shown like a movie, this is about panning your viewport with relatively fast to very fast FoV arcs, and back and forth arcs that are tactically advantageous to keep apprised of whats going on around you in 3D environments, to pinpoint new targets, etc. Generally any moderately fast FoV movement. When you do this the entire scene blurs on LCDs, as the pictures I posted tried to simulate. The crt in the middle of two 120hz lcds picture of skyrim afk FoV spinning pretty much sums it up. The lcd's blur their view of the scene while its moving, while the crt doesn't.

http://web-cyb.org/images/lcds/fw900-and-23in-120hz-sides_vega.jpg
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[amenx]

I've had the 27" SA950d for a couple weeks now and quite pleased with it. Far exceeded my expectations. The difference between this and the SA750, aside from styling, is that the 950d has DVI-DL, DP, HDMI inputs while the 750 has just DP, HDMI.

 

[wand3r3r]

On the readability test of super fast text there is a speed scale from 0 to 30 (30 being fastest). On the FW900 I can read the text at speed 30, and on the 2ms 120Hz Samsung's, it's 4!

On that test I can figure out characters to speed 8 on a 3 year old LG L227wtg 2ms 60Hz monitor... It's pretty legible at 4, but at 6/7/8 it takes a bit to figure out.

 

[cantholdanymore]

No expert here, but:
CRT are refreshed by a sweeping electron beam form left to right (I think) and from top to bottom while LCD screen is refreshed all at once, So the blurriness won't be noticeable in the CRT because they rely in the image persistence on the screen.

 

[wand3r3r]

I've been eying up the 3D screens too, my 2 current options seem to be the s23a750d and s23a700d. The main difference being the DVI vs. Displayport. I currently have a gtx 560 ti and am upgrading, likely to the 7970 (unless the 670 turns out cheaper/better). Will these both work with nvidia and then amd?

 

[Childs]

I have the LG and have been liking it a lot. I miss the quality of an IPS but I doubt I could go back to 60 hz.

Same. Because of the size of my desk I had to choose between the LG and a U2711, and the U2711 lost out. Best part is that I got my LG for $200 when Fry's was trying to close them out.

 

[WMD]

Those of you still debating 60Hz vs 120Hz I would say the difference isn't subtle at all. I was playing BF3 yesterday and it feels very choppy and laggy at the beginning so I checked AB if my 5850 is running the correct overclock. No problem there. Then checked fraps. Framerates over 100 no problem there then suddenly realized I had set the refresh rate to 60Hz the day before. Switch it back to 120Hz and that did the trick. Choppiness gone just sweet fluidity allowing to place headshots after headshot with my M16.

 

[flopper]

crt the best.
120hz is simply a better choice.
My eyes love it.

 

[Dribble]

Have had the 23 inch 120hz LG for years now. Would never go back to 60hz.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

No expert here, but:
CRT are refreshed by a sweeping electron beam form left to right (I think) and from top to bottom while LCD screen is refreshed all at once

No. The only display technology that updates all at once is dlp projectors. In LCD panels, only one pixel changes color at a time.

So the blurriness won't be noticeable in the CRT because they rely in the image persistence on the screen.

The critical difference is that in CRTs, only one of the pixels is really bright at a time. Most of the screen is just plain black most of the time, with a single really bright pixel racing across the screen. (easily provable with a fast-speed camera). Because our eyes suck, this kinda looks like a stable evenly-bright picture, only not quite.

In contrast, while LCDs still only modify the brightness of a single pixel at a time, once set, the pixels remain that color and brightness until they are modified again.

 

[KingFatty]

The critical difference is that in CRTs, only one of the pixels is really bright at a time. Most of the screen is just plain black most of the time, with a single really bright pixel racing across the screen. (easily provable with a fast-speed camera). Because our eyes suck, this kinda looks like a stable evenly-bright picture, only not quite.

I remember when I was younger, I'd turn off the TV and still see the screen emitting light, in the form of a picture on the screen. Wasn't that due to the phosphors of the CRT 'glowing' even though they weren't struck by the electron beam? I know the phosphors really light up super-bright when struck by the electron beam, but surely there is some persistence in brightness for other pixels of the CRT that aren't being updated?

 

[Gloomy]

Got a Planar SA2311W in the mail. So excite.

 

[Fallengod]

Got a Planar SA2311W in the mail. So excite.

Ive been considering ordering that too. Let me know if its good. Newegg used to have it for $280 but are now oos. Tigerdirect still has it for $280 though.

 

[shurato]

I'm looking to replace my old Hanns-G 28" LCD. I play alot of FPS and watch bluray on my computer.

Don't particularly care for 3d, more interested in 2d quality. As always I know you can't wait for the next best thing or you'll wait forever but is there anything new looming around the horizon in the next few months worth waiting for?

My current monitor isn't too bad honestly. But I figure I give my eyes a little treat since I stare at a monitor for so much of my day.

edit: It also seems my choices are limited to only 3 models for a 27" LED 120hz display... an Acer, Asus, and a Samsung....

 

[Gloomy]

Ive been considering ordering that too. Let me know if its good. Newegg used to have it for $280 but are now oos. Tigerdirect still has it for $280 though.

Actually you might want to jump on it now. I'm expecting it Friday and they might all be gone by then. It seems like TD and Newegg might be clearing stock and this might be the EOL for this monitor. I just got a message from TD (where I ordered mine from) saying that returns aren't allowed on this monitor and Planar would be handling all CS for it. I'm not sure if this is common?

 

[Dkcode]

Hi. I registered since I read this thread a few times and have borrowed a few pictures from it to illustrate the points made here elsewhere. The blur photos are simulations and I believe both were defined as such in their posts. They are fairly accurate but don't show the blur/smear ghosting outside of the onscreen objects.
.
Here is an actual photo I borrowed from another forum. It shows a fw900 graphics professional crt in the middle of two 23" 120hz samsung lcds during the skyrim afk FoV endless spinning. The lcds blur while the crt does not. It pretty much sums it up. That said, I do own a 120hz samsung and they are appreciably better than a 60hz but still blur.
.

That photo makes the 120Hz panels look rubbish. If I was unsure and I took that photo at face value I probably would not bother buying one.

Anyone who is on the fence about the improvement 120Hz offers over traditional 60Hz displays really needs to go out and test a 120Hz screen for themselves.

As long as your rendering close to 120FPS the difference on a 120Hz panel is night and day.

 

[Compddd]

What would be a good 120Hz monitor for someone who is used to a 30" IPS ?

 

[KingFatty]

That photo makes the 120Hz panels look rubbish. If I was unsure and I took that photo at face value I probably would not bother buying one.

Anyone who is on the fence about the improvement 120Hz offers over traditional 60Hz displays really needs to go out and test a 120Hz screen for themselves.

As long as your rendering close to 120FPS the difference on a 120Hz panel is night and day.

Have you seen a picture like this, but showing the difference between 120Hz and 60Hz LCDs?

I think the picture you cited is very interesting, but unfortunately the center screen is a CRT so it's a very unfair comparison.

Can anyone take a picture like that except have a 120Hz center LCD and 60Hz side LCD?

 

[Fallengod]

Actually you might want to jump on it now. I'm expecting it Friday and they might all be gone by then. It seems like TD and Newegg might be clearing stock and this might be the EOL for this monitor. I just got a message from TD (where I ordered mine from) saying that returns aren't allowed on this monitor and Planar would be handling all CS for it. I'm not sure if this is common?

Interesting. Yeah I dont know.

Newegg just put up an auto-notify button on the planar monitor which was not there before. I put my email in just to get notified. Are they being discontinued?

I am still trying to decide between that planar and the viewsonic VX2268WM 22" 120hz. Its about a $90 difference and I am not sure the planar is worth $90 more even though it is a newer updated model. I found the viewsonic for $210 with free shipping on a site so thats pretty damn good for a 120hz monitor. I dont know if I should just spend the extra $90 for the planar or get the viewsonic, all I really care about is 120hz so...

 

[cantholdanymore]

No. The only display technology that updates all at once is dlp projectors. In LCD panels, only one pixel changes color at a time.



The critical difference is that in CRTs, only one of the pixels is really bright at a time. Most of the screen is just plain black most of the time, with a single really bright pixel racing across the screen. (easily provable with a fast-speed camera). Because our eyes suck, this kinda looks like a stable evenly-bright picture, only not quite.

In contrast, while LCDs still only modify the brightness of a single pixel at a time, once set, the pixels remain that color and brightness until they are modified again.

Exactly, thanks for the clarification:thumbsup:

 

[Gloomy]

Interesting. Yeah I dont know.

Newegg just put up an auto-notify button on the planar monitor which was not there before. I put my email in just to get notified. Are they being discontinued?

I am still trying to decide between that planar and the viewsonic VX2268WM 22" 120hz. Its about a $90 difference and I am not sure the planar is worth $90 more even though it is a newer updated model. I found the viewsonic for $210 with free shipping on a site so thats pretty damn good for a 120hz monitor. I dont know if I should just spend the extra $90 for the planar or get the viewsonic, all I really care about is 120hz so...

I guess it's not EOL then. Heh. It wouldn't be odd though, imo this model could use an update to Displayport and LED backlighting.

The reasons I went for this monitor were the overwhelmingly positive reviews. Can't really find a bad one honestly, and it seems to be the highest-regarded 120Hz LCD. Also, matte display.

It was between this and the Alienware Optx for me, as they've both got matte displays. I almost pulled the trigger on the Alienware a little while ago, but sat on it too long and the $100 off deal fell through. I wanted to get a monitor with the least amount of glossy surfaces, and the Alienware had the matte bezel as well as panel, though the stand is shiny. On the Planar, it looks pretty professional with matte everywhere but for some reason they decided to stick a glossy bezel on it (). At least the panel is matte.

 

[MChao1]

I am also looking for a 120Hz display.

The question I have is that for ATI cards that are newer then the 5xxx series is the only output that can drive 120Hz the mini display port?

Also am I right to assume that for Nvidia cards that they use the HDMI ports?

 

[Gloomy]

I am also looking for a 120Hz display.

The question I have is that for ATI cards that are newer then the 5xxx series is the only output that can drive 120Hz the mini display port?

Also am I right to assume that for Nvidia cards that they use the HDMI ports?

Dual-Link DVI will do it.