13 miners are probably dead.....

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ferocious
What a damn shame.

Anyone know if this was a unionized mine?

Hell even union mines are probably afraid to strike and instead work in bad conditions or with numerous safety problems...because most of the public will scream they make too much and they are just being greedy, or at least they are afraid that the CEO will go union busting with the support of friends in the White House.

Non-union mines don't even stand a chance....despite all the goosesteppers who say unions are worthless because there are regulations on the books to protect them. Well those regulations are basically worthless...especially if workers have an enemy in the White House.

It had been. The company was moving away from hiring union workers and using non-union workers as a way to weaken or eliminate the union. It was mentioned by multiple people in TV interviews since the tragedy.


Oh, and rbrandon? Settle down, Beavis. And read this:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/3/111733/1034

And the company had posession of the mine for around a month... and was fixing 200-somthing violations... 200-86 in 1 month is pretty good.

We dont need your political BS in this thread, start a new one.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Why are some people associating this with the Bush administration? Thats pretty low.

I live near West Virginia and its a VERY poor and backwards state. Its been that way for a while. That has more to do with this than anything else.

That being said the mining deaths in the state have been steadily going down since the 1970's.

Originally posted by: DLeRium

When all else fails.. Blame Bush. You guys who do this are as dumb as the Republicans you mock....

Maybe it has something to do with the Federal Mine and Safety Office pandering to thier 'Business Partners',
instead of demanding that the mine company actually fix the faults that were repeately found.
Or maybe it had to do with MSHA trying to duck news reporters questions and offer excuses - like FEMA after Katrina.
Or then maybe it had something to do with the Feds relaxing the mine safety standards and look the other way
in keeping with the Bush Administration's energy policies relating to coal mining.

Or maybe they just don't care at all

 

[Killercavecow]

Just my two cents. Managing mining operations myself, I know what MSHA "violations" can consist of. I know no facts of the coal mining accident and don't claim to, but I know that MSHA violations that numerous can deal a lot with improper training jackets, or weeds growing too near a power pole, procedures not being clearly labled or designated, daily check sheets not being filled out, so on and so forth. If any one of those 280 violations were life threatening, MSHA would shut the mine down immediately until that problem was rectified. Those are cease and desist violations and the operation can and will be shut down until those problems are rectified.

MSHA operates no matter who is in the White House and does their job well, I hate them, but they do their job well. The mine owners were most likely working to get these problems rectified after the last owners let things slide. No operator wants to send their men into unsafe conditions. I don't know if you realize, but miners are timely and costly to train, you want to keep your workers happy and safe.

Mining accidents have been happening since the beginning of time. Its tragic, but thanks to the blessing/curse of modern communication and news media masses, its in everyones face. I don't know why you would blame an administration for a tragedy that could of happened under anyones watch.

 

[conjur]

Well, how about these violations?

Mine Where Explosion Occurred Was Cited for Hazards
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=...&sid=aAcRjFr7_TNs&refer=top_world_news

Jan. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Federal authorities issued 21 citations last year for a build-up of combustible materials at the West Virginia mine where 12 men died, according to U.S. Labor Department statistics.

The Sago mine, owned by billionaire investor Wilbur Ross's International Coal Group Inc., was cited for a total of 208 federal safety violations last year, up from 68 in 2004, according to the Labor Department. The largest individual fine last year was $440; the citations for combustible materials carried fines of $60.

When asked about the facility's safety record at a news conference yesterday, Ben Hatfield, International Coal's chief executive officer, said the Ashland, Kentucky-based company has improved safety conditions since acquiring the mine last year.

 

[Killercavecow]

In the article posted, the mine areas where those violations occured were shut down.

 

[conjur]

What article?


Here's another (posted by CaptKirk above0
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200601...;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Only mention there of shut downs is the parts of the mine where substantial problems were found were shutdown until corrected.

 

[Killercavecow]

Thats exactly what I am saying. Those areas of the mine that had problems that were deemed deadly were shut down by MSHA until the problems were rectified.

I guess I don't understand what we are discussing. I stated that MSHA will shut the mine down when incidents of deadly nature are observed. The article stated that the mine was shut down in areas where the dangers were. The problems were rectified, and operations began again.

 

[Starbuck1975]

When you were slaving away in college these blue collars workers were paying taxes to provide you affordable education.

Cry me a river.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Killercavecow
Thats exactly what I am saying. Those areas of the mine that had problems that were deemed deadly were shut down by MSHA until the problems were rectified.

I guess I don't understand what we are discussing. I stated that MSHA will shut the mine down when incidents of deadly nature are observed. The article stated that the mine was shut down in areas where the dangers were. The problems were rectified, and operations began again.

And problems never resurface, do they? Esp. in a company that's cutting corners and a regulatory agency that's increasingly turning a blind eye?

 

[Starbuck1975]

a regulatory agency that's increasingly turning a blind eye?

Wouldn't this allegation result in a spike of mining incidents, which has not been the case.

 

[tw1164]

Originally posted by: conjur
168 safety violations.

Pretty big total amount of fines you'd think, right?


Nope.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/3/111733/1034

The link on the blog that you posted is broke.

Here's the MSHA QA page though

http://www.msha.gov/sagomine/sagoqa01052006.asp


edited for emot mess up

 

[CaptnKirk]

Well, the MSHA HTTP is about what I'd expect, sidestep, divert, and appologize . . . after the fact,
which is about all our Government seems capable of doing anymore. Excuses, any excuses. Too little, too late


Christian Science Monitor offers a decent overview.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

When you were slaving away in college these blue collars workers were paying taxes to provide you affordable education.

Cry me a river.


You're the one infering that you are "entitled" to more because you spend 4 yrs out of your expected 70 "working hard" in school

check your ego

 

[waggy]

i dont know what is more silly. You people that claim this is Bush's fault or those that are saying negitive crap about white coller workers.

 

[BarneyFife]

I think its ridiculous making fun of white/blue collar workers. They both have their place in society and neither are superior to the other.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You're the one infering that you are "entitled" to more because you spend 4 yrs out of your expected 70 "working hard" in school. check your ego

Perhaps you should check yours, as that is hardly what I am saying at all. Education is one of many pathways to better job offerings...the path to high education does not begin and end with college...years of focus, dedication and hard work provide candidates with access to better schools...an education is not worth the paper it is written on without years of hard work showing successful application of said education in a real world environment...and most college educated workers have to retrain on their skills by attending graduate school, which is no picnic either.

You are hardly in a position to judge as you have no understanding of the career path I have taken. I am only "entitled" to that which I achieve for myself.

I think its ridiculous making fun of white/blue collar workers. They both have their place in society and neither are superior to the other.

Ditto...at no time did I say white collar workers were better then blue collar...some blue collar workers seem to have a chip on their shoulder about white collar workers...many white collar workers think they are superior to the blue collar work force...neither of them are right.