14 facts about the Obama presidency

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Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
1,410
2
81
Regardless of how true these "facts" are, the article (and this thread) is deceptive. The title refers to the presidency but the facts relate to the state of the economy. The reader is encouraged to assume that the presidency is responsible for the state of the economy, but is actually given no objective evidence to support this. The implication is simply that A was followed by B, and therefore B must be directly caused by A.

If you tried to pull this in an assignment back in my uni days (political science school) you might have gotten a few points for the facts but ultimately would have failed any argumentative essay assignment.

"Interesting," isn't it?
 

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
1,410
2
81
Oh, and I'm a lefty Eurotrash yuppy scumbag who thinks the GOP is pure concentrated evil. So before you consider accusing me of being Republican, know that I am critiquing the article's approach to logic, argumentation and respect for the reader's intelligence, NOT the content itself.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Oh, and I'm a lefty Eurotrash yuppy scumbag who thinks the GOP is pure concentrated evil. So before you consider accusing me of being Republican, know that I am critiquing the article's approach to logic, argumentation and respect for the reader's intelligence, NOT the content itself.

You can't think that way here
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,513
4,607
136
So many you can't even be bothered to refute them!


Bubble intact!

Both the repubs and dems do the same old shit. Massage the real facts to say whatever you want. Stretch the truth, or bend it to whatever message you would like someone to believe.

Suck on the tit all you want. We both know the truth, these 14 points isn't the truth.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
As Obama correctly pointed out in the past, the national debt is a serious threat to national security.

One of the ways Clinton balanced the budget was by putting the entire country on an adjustable rate mortgage. Rather than financing the government with 30 year bonds, the average maturity on government debt is now under 5 years. That means the federal budget is strongly influenced by interest rate fluctuations. The government can't balance the budget when interest rates are close to zero, so guess what would happen if China decided to dump a trillion dollars worth of US debt on the market at one time. Interest rates would go through the roof and the government would be bankrupt almost immediately. Doing so would cost China a trillion dollars, but nobody said war was cheap.

This is false. Anything China would attempt to do in regards to treasuries could be easily counteracted by the federal reserve, as we control the currency those bonds are issued in and sold for. The US government would be largely unaffected and China would be out a shit load of money.

It's always funny that people think that china's bond holdings mean they have us by the balls. It's precisely the opposite.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
Regardless of how true these "facts" are, the article (and this thread) is deceptive. The title refers to the presidency but the facts relate to the state of the economy. The reader is encouraged to assume that the presidency is responsible for the state of the economy, but is actually given no objective evidence to support this. The implication is simply that A was followed by B, and therefore B must be directly caused by A.

If you tried to pull this in an assignment back in my uni days (political science school) you might have gotten a few points for the facts but ultimately would have failed any argumentative essay assignment.

"Interesting," isn't it?

This piece is much more targeted at arguing people's perceptions of the economy under Obama are wrong than anything else. As someone outside of the US you might not be aware of the nature of the debate inside here.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Argue with the facts in the article.

The record speaks for itself- Repubs love debt, except when Dems are in the oval office. then it's the Devil.

Reagan/GHWB quadruped the debt. GWB doubled it again. Wake me when Obama does something similar.

I did, only I presented facts and the author of the article presented theory. Thats what fired up the insult machine in you. "Moronic partisan twit" You also don't find it strange how GWB was unpatriotic and the worst President in the world for his spending but all of a sudden debt is alright, and in fact some here even think it's a good thing?
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
Under lock & key in care of the Mullahs of... Benghazi! With guns from... Fast & Furious! All part of the evil IRS plot to persecute Uber Wealthy Repub donors & bring on Sharia Law!

Don't forget that it's surrounded by a moat of ebola.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Both the repubs and dems do the same old shit. Massage the real facts to say whatever you want. Stretch the truth, or bend it to whatever message you would like someone to believe.

Suck on the tit all you want. We both know the truth, these 14 points isn't the truth.


I'm voting 3rd party for the first time in my life today for that reason. I'm tired of both groups doing the same things while pointing the finger at the other party. Both the Democrats and Republicans at this point don't care about you or me, they just want to stay in power so they can continue to be elected royalty.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
I'm voting 3rd party for the first time in my life today for that reason. I'm tired of both groups doing the same things while pointing the finger at the other party. Both the Democrats and Republicans at this point don't care about you or me, they just want to stay in power so they can continue to be elected royalty.

welcome to reality. Wish more people would visit.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
I'm voting 3rd party for the first time in my life today for that reason. I'm tired of both groups doing the same things while pointing the finger at the other party. Both the Democrats and Republicans at this point don't care about you or me, they just want to stay in power so they can continue to be elected royalty.

Unfortunately - having viewed many of the 3rd party options in my area - most seem pretty crazy. One guy listed as part of his qualifications "I used to weight 450lbs but lost 250 so I know how to reign in spending" Wait...what? Or the guy who said "If the government wasn't making so many darn roads the free market would have given me a Jetsonmobile by now."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
welcome to reality. Wish more people would visit.

Voting third party is pointless. Any system where 51% of the vote = 100% of the representation you will usually end up with only two parties. This is just the logical outcome.

Agitate to change our system, don't waste your time with third parties.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Voting third party is pointless. Any system where 51% of the vote = 100% of the representation you will usually end up with only two parties. This is just the logical outcome.

Agitate to change our system, don't waste your time with third parties.

you are part of the political problem that i can not stand. you support your party NO MATTER WHAT. Fanatics on both sides are evil.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
you are part of the political problem that i can not stand. you support your party NO MATTER WHAT. Fanatics on both sides are evil.

Of course I dont. I have voted for several republican candidates, and before I went to school and learned about political science I supported third party candidates. I don't even vote anymore, as voting is pointless.

You might not like what I'm telling you but it doesn't make it any less true. A viable national third party will never, ever, ever happen given our current system of electing people. A viable third party depends on voters acting irrationally.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Moronic partisan twit. Spending has increased the least under Obama of any president since Eisenhower.

Don't let facts interfere with the formulation of your opinions, such as they are.

Explain the debt increase then. If spending decreased where the fuck did all the debt come from under Obama's term?
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
Pardon me but I think there is a difference between "decreased" and "increased the least."
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Explain the debt increase then. If spending decreased where the fuck did all the debt come from under Obama's term?

...Seriously? If there's a deficit, the debt goes up. Even if the deficit goes down, the debt still goes up just slower....

I ... I am massively confused as to how this isn't obvious to you. I'm pretty sure this is a concept I could've figured out by the end of 2nd grade. You were educated past the age of 7, right?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Voting third party is pointless. Any system where 51% of the vote = 100% of the representation you will usually end up with only two parties. This is just the logical outcome.

Agitate to change our system, don't waste your time with third parties.


I know the person I vote for has about zero chance of winning. But, I feel the third party candidate is the best of the bunch, or at least lines up with my views best. Maybe if more people voted for third party candidates the snowball will start rolling and getting bigger. If the press has to talk about non-Dem/Repub candidates because they get a respectable number of votes, maybe things will start picking up over time for some of those parties.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Regardless of how true these "facts" are, the article (and this thread) is deceptive. The title refers to the presidency but the facts relate to the state of the economy. The reader is encouraged to assume that the presidency is responsible for the state of the economy, but is actually given no objective evidence to support this. The implication is simply that A was followed by B, and therefore B must be directly caused by A.

If you tried to pull this in an assignment back in my uni days (political science school) you might have gotten a few points for the facts but ultimately would have failed any argumentative essay assignment.

"Interesting," isn't it?


Pretty much.

Considering how much the Federal Reserve has spent the last few years to keep the American Economy strong, of which the president has no say so in how it operates, trying to link the recent economic changes to Obama this time around isn't exactly logical to do.

Now linking some of our economic woes to the failed war in Iraq to Bush is one thing. Direct causation there. Just because Bennie thought to print a crap ton of money for Wall Street to bail them all out and saying because Obama is pres at the time thus deserve the credit for what Bennie did is a bit disingenuous.

That's for the economic changes that happened as Obama was president.

Now repealing DADT and leaning on congress to push through ACA are things he has done. The repealing of DADT I laud him for at least.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
...Seriously? If there's a deficit, the debt goes up. Even if the deficit goes down, the debt still goes up just slower....

I ... I am massively confused as to how this isn't obvious to you. I'm pretty sure this is a concept I could've figured out by the end of 2nd grade. You were educated past the age of 7, right?
You'd be amazed. Jon Stewart made the same mistake when debating Bill O'Reilly. Jon thought the debt was cut in half. Bill had to correct him by saying the deficit was cut in half; the debt is cumulative and has not been reduced.
Most of the world thinks we're retarded when we celebrate bringing the deficit down. Other countries regularly go past bringing it down by posting a budget surplus. A quick google image search says Canada had a surplus between 1998 and 2008. UK had a surplus in 1988, 1989, 1999-2001. Russia had a surplus between 2000 and 2008.

Unfortunately - having viewed many of the 3rd party options in my area - most seem pretty crazy. One guy listed as part of his qualifications "I used to weight 450lbs but lost 250 so I know how to reign in spending" Wait...what? Or the guy who said "If the government wasn't making so many darn roads the free market would have given me a Jetsonmobile by now."
A third party candidate in my area said she would fight against Canada's tar sand. How does that work? If we're getting oil from Montana or British Columbia, there's no way of knowing what kind of oil it is. Some of it might be conventional, some of it might be shale oil, some of might be sand oil, some of it might be from Saudi Arabia. What's even more weird is that the candidates against oil from Canada never say anything about stopping oil from Saudi Arabia. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,823
49,521
136
I know the person I vote for has about zero chance of winning. But, I feel the third party candidate is the best of the bunch, or at least lines up with my views best. Maybe if more people voted for third party candidates the snowball will start rolling and getting bigger. If the press has to talk about non-Dem/Repub candidates because they get a respectable number of votes, maybe things will start picking up over time for some of those parties.

It's a collective action problem. nothing the media does will help. The only answer is to change the structure of our voting system. Anything else is a waste of time and votes.
 
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