150,00$ Kyro II beats Geforce2 Ultra!!!

[Krioni]

well, there are some of us (me) that are still running TNT2's and this would be a very good jump in performance for an excellent price....

like you said, the people that this card is targeted for are not those who already have the latest and greatest, but those who stay a generation or two behind the curve.

 

[Eug]

The timing is perfect actually if it comes out very soon.

Many people who have been itching to upgrade, hadn't, because simply the GF2 cost too much, and the GF2MX was less than stellar in some games compared to older cards like the Voodoo3. The Kyro II provides the GTS at much lower than GTS list prices. I expect the street price of the Kyro II and GTS will be similar though.

I would consider upgrading if I could get a Kyro II at CAD$200 (US$120), and it has good 2D quality.

 

[KevinH]

Hmm, then I stand corrected Eug. I would have assumed that the majority of people who are chasing fps' already would have bought something in the last year.

k

 

[Urinal Mint]

I'm in this group that Eug talks about... yesterday I bit the bullet and ordered a MSI Geforce2 GTS board for $140 (from newegg.com if you must know). I know the 2D isn't near as good as it is on my TNT2U, but I'm willing to sacrifice a _little_ bit of 2D performance in order to play some Q3 and Counterstrike without having to suck because of the low FPS my current vidcard provides.

Not everyone is a power gamer and needs the best and brightest. A mid-level entry from ST is very welcome, and I expect them to do spectacular in sales. I imagine these boards will show up in a good portion of OEM machines if they perform anywhere near what Anand's testing shows.

 

[nortexoid]

the Kyro II has a 300mhz ramdac (the original had 270) and still looks better in 2d and 3d than any geforce based card...probably even with the filter mod...

also, the card is on a par w/ a 64mb GTS in today's benchmarks, and seems to destroy the GTS in future games consisting of more complex scenes etc...
not to mention the fact that it's performance isn't doing roller coaster rides like the gts...the min/max doesn't deviate as much - so even tho the gts gets a higher average, it's more than likely due to the fact that it scores really high highs, but really low lows...averaging 70+ fps average with a higher low is better than averaging 100+fps with a lower low...

T&L?...what a joke - maybe early next year it'll be a notable feature - right now it's a joke...

also, this card is damn cheap due to its efficiency (using SDR over costly high speed ddr memory)...

no question it's my next upgrade....

though i have to agree it may not be justifiable to purchase this card if u already have a gts or radeon ddr...unless of course u play games that use a lot of complex scenes, etc., able to properly stress the power of the card.

 

[miniMUNCH]

This card also has OEM written all over it...cheap and fast/good performance.

Hercules is not dumb...there is a ton of potential in the Kyro. I hear the next gen chip will feature a [fully programmable] T&L engine.

Kudos to ST for the fine chip and I look forward to getting a Kyro card in the future.

 

[Eug]

<< I would have assumed that the majority of people who are chasing fps' already would have bought something in the last year. >>

Heheh, yeah, I bought a Voodoo 3 for US$75. I couldn't justify spending $300 or whatever on a GF2. Now that a GTS can be had for $150, I will wait a little longer and see which will be the better buy for me, a GTS or a Kyro. It might just be the Kyro, despite its less the grand UT performance, simply because I spend a lot more time in 2D than anything else. (I am hoping the 2D performance of the Kyro is reflected in the new Kyro II.)

 

[Kulgan]

What about Windows 2000 driver performance &amp; compatibility? There are quite of few of us here that use the &quot;professional&quot; OS for gaming

 

[Innoka]

Hasn't anyone noticed anything odd about the Anandtech article yet? There was no mention of features. Apart from 8 texture layering on two pipelines, we don't really know much and have to refer to the original Kyro article.

 

[Slappy5]

Sheesh are you guys bitter. Really now nVidia has done more for the graphics industry than any of you seem to give it credit for; I can't imagine what would be available right now if NV didn't set the freakish product cycle it has. I, for one, enjoyed the hell out my STB TNT, my Guillemot 3D Prophet SDR, eVGA GF2, and my shiny new Inno3D GF2. Obviously, I'm a fan, but I am by no means a mindless drone for their products.

I am by all means not a fan of 3DFX, as I have attempted to conduct business with them and would never buy a product of theirs if my life depended because of it. I have had direct experience with the Voodoo AGP 5500 through this arrangement, and I can safely say it was a flawed product on many levels. It had its high points, but I felt those high points were out weighed by the crippled pci/agp fubar and their deplorable business oriented demeanor. Converesely, nVidia was a champ from the start after bouncing from 3DFX to them. Completely obliging, courteous, and intelligent enough to foster opporunity when it was still in developement. That and the GF2 imho kicked the pants off the V5 in terms of performance. Combine these two drawbacks to 3DFX and put them up against NV, and you can see how one of them failed and the other did not.

ATI, I am glad to see their keeping themselves in the game; I have no problem whatsoever with a little more competition in the industry and for that matter strongly encourage it. The Radeon is a competitve product I inted to keep a very close eye on its future renditions, especially with regard to tyhe price advantage ATI seems to offer over NV. BUt, nonetheless, I am a gamer and the GF2 still outperforms the Radeon as far as I can tell (no direct experience ) in just about every benchmark I've seen. That being said, the GF2 still has my money ($133 to be exact.)

As for the Kyro II, hooray for alternatives! I tend to keep in mind though that not onyl is it more expensive than a GF2 right now (remember, $133,) it did not outperform its cousin the GF2 Pro. That, to me, indicates the GF2 is still very much on par with the Kyro II since there is not a whole heck of alot of difference between the PRo and the GF2. Benchies preach to that point.

Umm... I like nvidia, nv=good.


John

ps

got board writing this little blurb so please excuse the abrupt end (or thank me, either one is fine

 

[Howard]

If simply clocking the chip/memory higher increased frames that much, I wonder what would happen if we overclocked it even higher? Mmm, 5.0ns chips...

 

[nortexoid]

slappy, that's $133 for a 32MB gts, not a 64MB...

though u may think the 32MB doesn't do much, which is the case for most current games, in higher resolutions with modern games the 32MB games quite a difference...texture/mem swapping is not cool...

yeah, nvidia is still a great performer, but it may be the case that the performance of their products don't justify their prices...

 

[gtd2000]

Madrat,


<< GeForce2-MX sucks compared to a Voodoo3 >>


In what games are you referring to?
Voodoo 3 what? 2000 or 3500?
The GF MX2 is a &quot;budget&quot; card it's US$74 for the one I have how much did the V3 cards cost?
Ask my friend with the Voodoo 3 2000 which card he thinks is better - it won't be the Voodoo!



<< I've played them side by side and the MX just stutters constantly >>


Well if the MX2 system was running a Cyrix CPU then I might just take you as being correct!
The only game that slows down my MX2 is Project IGI with max settings at 1024 x 768 - if I bump up the card to 200/210 it's fine - my 3DMark2000 result is 5605 with this card btw at 1024 x 768 16bit (standard benchmark)
Tell me what a Voodoo 3 - 2000 or 3500 gets?

 

[NFS4]

I too want to see Win2k performance

 

[skace]

Same here NFS4, only thing on my plate is win2k

 

[Teasy]

<<<<<<<I too want to see Win2k performance>>>>>>

The kyro's Win2k drivers are great, as good as the W98 ones, and the Kyro II will be using the same drivers as Kyro just with a few extra strings to allow the high clock and mem speed, in essence the Kyro II is just a Kyro on a 0.18m process to help the chip clock higher, it also has 3 million more transistors then the Kyro I, this is also probably to help the chip to clock higher by maybe redesigning a critical path or better clock distribution, or both.

 

[KevinH]

Nortexoid have you seen a Kryo 2 in action? I'd love to know how you know it's 2D kicks that much ass. If you recall the Geforce's supposedly have a Ramdac in the mid-300's so I hope you're not making an assumption based on the reviewer's number. Seriously, if you've used the Kyro 2 and have used ALL Geforce's to base a comparison on their respective 2d image quality then kudos to you. Otherwise I think you're being a little presumptious. In fact the Elsa card has GREAT 2d (and a few others as well) as MANY users of boths cards can attest to. This is coming from a person whose getting a Radeon shipped to him today, me .

Likewise, I used to work for Fox Interactive (yes that POS software company) and if Kyro gives half as much attention to addressing issues as nVidia gave to us, then Kyro's going to have a winner on it's hands.

 

[Eug]

Slappy,

I have nothing against nVidia. In fact I applaud them for pushing the industry ahead. But, it could be argued by some that 3dfx did more for the industry, since it was in a sense their company that revolutioned the concept of PC gaming.

Personally, I just buy what suits me best. Ie. good speed and good quality for a good price.

I still am not overly impressed with the Geforce 2 Mx for the games I play, except as a lower end card, and I applauded their introduction at their price point. But now that the Geforce 2 GTS is in a reasonable price range, I may buy it, but only if has good 2D quality, and the Kyro II doesn't win me over (which it is beginning to).

 

[AfterBurn]

Like NFS and a few others, i want to know W2K performance AND 2D speed/visual quality. This baby just screams to me to get it once it is available, but i will shell out a single dime to replace my G400 for less 2D speed/visual quality than Matrox has spoiled me with.

 

[wolf550e]

the technology is terrific, the question is whether they can provide stable drivers, fix the bug and make them cheaper. and add T&amp;L ASAP!

do you think its worth buying next month over a GTS 32MB? (my friend is buying a comp)

 

[NOX]

<< I would have assumed that the majority of people who are chasing fps' already would have bought something in the last year. >>

Not for $300+, I?ll keep on waiting. I've been waiting for something to come along that was more in my price range. I really wanted an GTS 64MB, but I can?t see myself spending that kind of money to get one. If this card comes out at around $120-$150 it will most likely get my money. I am still waiting for a great card to come out, I?m still using my G400Max for gaming, it?s not the fastest but it has outstanding game play in UT using D3D (DX8).

 

[JellyBaby]

Looks like a nice offering. I'll definitely be watching these guys in the future. I don't like that 3 companies are involved in making the final card a reality -- too many playas often spells trouble. Also, what happens if nvidia simply slashes prices on the gts line, perhaps even undercutting the kyro 2?

 

[nortexoid]

Kevin, i'm going from every single review of the original Kyro i have ever read, and that was using a 270mhz ramdac...it would be safe to assume that the 300mhz ramdac on the kyro II is slightly better and thus even that much more better in 2d than the geforce...

 

[wyvrn]

Also, what happens if nvidia simply slashes prices on the gts line, perhaps even undercutting the kyro 2?



Then someone benefitted from the release of the Kyro, correct? I am glad we have this much competition. Should drive everyone's prices down, similar to what AMD has done to Intel. In fact, I would love to see another company come out with a viable alternative to AMD and Intel in the proc market. Long live competition!

I don't think the fact that 3 companies are involved is going to hurt sales. Eventually, one of the companies will get squeezed out to maximize profits. This arrangement should not last long.

 

[gtd2000]

JellyBaby,
Let's hope so