15Krpm SCSI - Fujitsu or Seagate ?

[wlee]

After a string of bad luck( Odd, since all my IBM 10k U2 drives are still fine ) with IBM 10k U160 HD's, I'm gonna replace them all. But which drive ? Seagate 15k Cheetah or Fujitsu 15k ? Anyone have experience with both ?

 

[llc00ljoel]

Stick with Seagate, I work with a lot of servers and have dealt with both. Fujitsu 15k drives may benchmark slightly faster, but you may have to sacrifice some reliability.

 

[Maki]

Buy the Seagates. It helps my stock options.

 

[bacillus]

you won't be disappointed with the latest version of the cheetah x15!

 

[wlee]

OK, looks like everyone favors Seagate. Now, where to buy the latest ver. of the Cheetah ? I've bought from HyperMicro before. Any other good dealers for SCSI ?

 

[dajo]

Thinking of getting one of the 15K.3 drives but the excessive noise associated with the Seagate SCSI drives in the past are holding me back until I get some feedback.

Can someone with direct experience with the 15K.3 comment on the idle and seek noise level for these drives.

Thanks!

 

[Peter]

Fujitsu's line of SCSI drives have always been rock solid as well, to my experience. I'd go with the faster ones, if I have that correctly, Fujitsu currently has the edge.

 

[dajo]

Fujitsu reviews indicate it is quieter than other SCSI drives which is important to me. I find the different versions/adapters (pin number, wide, ultrawide, 320) a little confusing, but I don't know much about SCSI yet - will research it.

===================
Question:

Interface specs for the Fujitsu MAM3184MP - 18GB SCSI WIDE list an Ultra 160 (68 or 80 pin) adapter.

Is the following a correct adapter:
Adaptec 29160

Anything else I should know before I jump in?

 

[bozo1]

- Get a drive with a 68-pin connector.
- Adaptec 29160 will work. You can also save a good bit of money by getting one of LSI's Ultra160 host adapters from hypermicro.com or somewhere.
- You need an LVD cable with terminator. If you buy a 'bare' controller, you'll have to buy your own cable - $35+. If you buy the controller as a 'kit', it will come with the cable.

 

[dajo]

Thanks. I take it LSI is a more affordable competitor to Adaptec? Any issues to consider by not going Adaptec? Any speed loss?

So, would this LSI kit from Hypermicro for $89 be all I need with the drive?
"LSI Logic U160, Ultra160 LVD SCSI-3, Symbios/LSI 53c1010 chipset, 64-bit PCI PnP, busmastering transfer protocol, up to 15 targets, Internal connector: Mini DB68(F) SE/LVD U160, external connector: Mini DB68(F) SE/LVD U160, whitebox kit includes: 5-position Mini DB68(M) TPE insulated twisted to flat ribbon cable, internal LVD Mini DB68(F) terminator, 3-year warranty."

I want to save money but I don't want to lose speed since that's the whole point of going SCSI. I don't care about RAID implementations right now.

I really appreciate all this input.

So, is SCSI screaming fast compared to IDE?

Do you think this is a crazy thing to do for noise control?
Tupperware solution for noise dampening

 

[Peter]

LSI's SCSI adapters use a very intelligent RISC engine for the SCSI handling (producing very low CPU load), and their driver and firmware are as mature as it gets. LSI have a much straighter legacy of SCSI chips than Adaptec does, and it shows in the quality of their software. Performance wise, it doesn't get any faster than LSI's or Adaptec's. Given the ridiculous prices Adaptec charges, the decision is obvious. (btw, Tekram's excellent 390U3W dual channel adapter also uses an LSI chip.)

Buy from HyperMicro, visit www.storagereview.com beforehand, and learn there how to get that LSI U160 card for free with any 15k rpm SCSI drive. You just need to buy the cable separately, because that free LSI card is bulk naked. If you don't plan on building a high availability RAID array with hot swappable drives, get the normal 68-pin connector model.

regards, Peter

 

[dajo]

Thanks for all the info - that's great. Will research how to get the card for free, but what I've seen so far is that the deal is with IBM drives, and I'll probably go ahead and pay for the card to get the Fujitsu as noise is a big consideration for me.

I agree about the prices for the Adaptec cards being ridiculous!!!

Update
Well, storagereview of the Fujitsu MAM series states that the drive is very noisey, which is the opposite of another review I read elsewhere (as well as very hot!).

What to do, what to do... guess I'm back on the Cheetah.

Can anyone quickly tell me what differences the "W/LC" indicate in the ST318453LW/LC part numbers?

 

[bozo1]

Can anyone quickly tell me what differences the "W/LC" indicate in the ST318453LW/LC part numbers

LC means the drive has an 80-pin SCA connector which is not what you want.
LW means the drive has a 68-pin connector which is what you -do- want.

 

[dajo]

Thanks - but why is 68 preferred - newer technology?

 

[Deskstar]

I have a Seagate 18GB (1st version) and a Seagate 36GB (first version), both Cheetahs 15k, 68 pin. They are fast. The 18GB however is noisier than the 36GB for some reason. It "clicks" as though it is searching every second, just like a clock ticking. It drives me crazy. But, both drives are fast. Do you think that my 18Gb is defective because of its seeking noise that is constant? The 36GB only rarely makes the same noise.

And I have/use the Tekram SCSI U160 card that is superb. And if you want info on setup of any device, try this excellent site:

SCSI Info

 

[dajo]

I read that the idle rhythmic clicking for that drive was normal - can't remember where I read it, though. Newer Cheetah's are supposed to have very low idle noise.

Can anyone what the difference is between the following:

ST318452LW Ultra160 SCSI
ST318453LW Ultra320 SCSI

Other than the 160 vs 320 SCSI specification they seem to have the same specs. I think the Ultra320 is future tech not yet implemented. Difference is about $20.

I take it that the ST318453LW would be backward compatible with the u160 controller, but there might not be any point in getting the Ultra320 version now.

Can someone comment?

 

[bozo1]

Thanks - but why is 68 preferred - newer technology?

68-pin is the standard connection. The 80-pin SCA interface is to put a drive in a system (file server normally) or an external drive array that uses hot-swappable drives. The drives have one connector on the back that carries the data, power, SCSI ID information, etc. To use it in a regular system, you'd need a converter to go from 80-pin SCA to the standard 68-pin connector and those can cause problems.

Ultra160 vs. Ultra320 is really moot. The drives aren't any faster. The potential throughput of the bus is but you'd have to have more than 2-3 drives configured in a RAID array to saturate even the Ultra160 bus.

 

[dajo]

Good, because the 320 controllers are very expensive. Tomshardware says the Fujitsu is very quiet - storagereview says it loud and the Cheetah is very quiet.

Arrrrgh!

 

[Deskstar]

By the way, I would NOT recommend the tupperware solution for noise with these drives. They run hot, very hot. Putting them into tupperware would trap heat and make them even hotter. I have one of mine installed next to an exhaust fan and another in a 5.25 slot with vents in the face plate. Even the vents are warm to the touch.

And, except for very large files and jobs, the power of these drives might be wasted on "routine" desktop applications. So, balance your needs against the cost of the these features. For server use, they are great. For everyday use, it depends on your person jobs. IMHO.

If you want a Tekram U160 card, I have an extra one. Just PM me about it and I will set a price. It will cost, however.

 

[dajo]

Do you think there is any appreciable performance difference in the Ultra160 controllers for Adaptec, Tekram, and LSI?

As far as server vs. desktop performance, I am interested in optimizing performance in my rig. It's true that it's just a desktop, but I'm always looking for ways to improve performance from loading apps to browsing the Internet.

Now that I have the SCSI bug I imagine that I will have to purchase just so that I can find out for myself.

 

[Peter]

Since Tekram's U160 stuff uses LSI's chips, firmware and drivers, there's no difference between these two.

www.storagereview.com compared the Adaptec 29160 to the Tekram 390U3W some time ago. Turned out there is no mentionable performance delta, just a give and take in the scale of measuring tolerance.

 

[dajo]

One review of the new Cheetah drive said you really need a Ultra 2 Wide cable to get any improvements over the previous model.

Are the cards we've been discussing here (LSI u160) such, or is there even more to this equation?

Thanks.

 

[bozo1]

Ultra2 was the predecessor to Ultra160. (The 'wide' is a given.) With Ultra2, everything became 'wide' so they changed the terminology after that. Ultra2 would be Ultra80 in todays terms. All 3 use the same LVD cable.

 

[dajo]

Thank you. Sorry to be so "SCSI challenged". Sounds like I'm set.

Have XP pro on the way. Any views on NTFS vs FAT32 especially in consideration of the SCSI hd setup? I read somewhere that writes with NTFS and SCSI were terrible with XP but that these issue may have been addressed with SP1.

Thanks again. This is great support!

 

[Peter]

With U2 aka U80, there was a switch in the electrical properties, from "single ended" to "low voltage differential" signalling aka LVD. Now since differential signalling uses a pair of wires for one signal, you need to have twisted-pair cabling. That's what the cable thing is about - an older cable is just plain straight ribbon cable, not suitable for differential signalling.

And, drives from U2 upward never have termination capabilities onboard, so those LVD cables usually have an on-cable terminator block on the far end.

Regarding FAT vs NTFS, the latter is much higher performing. XP's SCSI performance issues were or are registry screwups, these are solvable.

regards, Peter