16ms ghosting!!

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
it is a major PITA when you are getting shot from behind and want to locate someone quickly coming out of a spin- every time. LCDs are still very slow, and have significant levels of ghosting even amongst the fastest displays.

That is precisely the problem I have with them. When I do play games, I generally only play FPS, and I just can't deal with that blur when you're spinning and stop and there's that moment where you're trying to pick out a target that you can't see.

I'm close to getting an LCD anyway, because the text clarity is just too good, and the vast majority of my time at a computer is spent reading text. But I have a feeling I'll be keeping the CRT around for gaming.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
it is a major PITA when you are getting shot from behind and want to locate someone quickly coming out of a spin- every time. LCDs are still very slow, and have significant levels of ghosting even amongst the fastest displays.

That is precisely the problem I have with them. When I do play games, I generally only play FPS, and I just can't deal with that blur when you're spinning and stop and there's that moment where you're trying to pick out a target that you can't see.

I'm close to getting an LCD anyway, because the text clarity is just too good, and the vast majority of my time at a computer is spent reading text. But I have a feeling I'll be keeping the CRT around for gaming.

If I had the space (and money) to have a nice big CRT to use for gaming, I'd have one of those and then my LCD for everything else. But I live in a dorm room, I'm a college student without tons of money, and I'd rather not move a 70 pound monitor up and down multiple flights of stairs every few months (more often when I go to LAN parties).

With that said, my 2005FPW is actually quite good, and while it still ghosts a bit (as all LCD's do), I believe it's worth the sacrifice.

 

[imported_humey]

BTW 20ms = 50fps so fastest monitors that cost $$$$ are like 8ms so approx 110fps, i for one would not pay for top model gamming gpu to use on tftlcd monitor, as of that and res.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
it is a major PITA when you are getting shot from behind and want to locate someone quickly coming out of a spin- every time. LCDs are still very slow, and have significant levels of ghosting even amongst the fastest displays.

That is precisely the problem I have with them. When I do play games, I generally only play FPS, and I just can't deal with that blur when you're spinning and stop and there's that moment where you're trying to pick out a target that you can't see.

I'm close to getting an LCD anyway, because the text clarity is just too good, and the vast majority of my time at a computer is spent reading text. But I have a feeling I'll be keeping the CRT around for gaming.

You've never tried a 16ms LCD if you think the ghosting would in any way affect your gaming. I guarantee I have better eyes than you and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I guarantee I have better eyes than you and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Either you have much lower standards then some other people or your eyes are not close to as good as you think they are.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I guarantee I have better eyes than you and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Either you have much lower standards then some other people or your eyes are not close to as good as you think they are.

20/15 as of last year. I could be a fighter pilot.

Have you even tried a 16ms panel? If so, which one and which games did you play?

 

[imported_humey]

Hmm i though everyone online had perfect eyesight was 6ft 3inches tall had 10inch cock and is a millionaire.

Today tflcd aint ideal for gamming period, what a waste of a new 6800 ultra or such.
Try watch 1080 hdwmv at 1920x1080.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I guarantee I have better eyes than you and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Either you have much lower standards then some other people or your eyes are not close to as good as you think they are.

20/15 as of last year. I could be a fighter pilot.

Have you even tried a 16ms panel? If so, which one and which games did you play?

He's not making up the ghosting thing; it's not some conspiracy by CRT users to get people not to buy LCD's or something.

I've used the Dell 2001FP quite a bit for gaming, and I currently own a 2005FPW. I've played various games; Unreal, Unreal Tournament/UT2004, FarCry, Half-Life 2, and many others...they all exhibit ghosting in some form or another. It's not bad enough to make me want to throw my LCD out, and I've decided that the benefits (perfect geometry, crisp text) outweigh the disadvantages like ghosting.

It really seems that some people just don't notice it, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. My brother (who actually owns the aforementioned 2001FP) claims not to notice any ghosting at all on his monitor. You just shouldn't dismiss the people who do notice it.

 

[BenSkywalker]

20/15 as of last year. I could be a fighter pilot.

You wouldn't make a very good fighter pilot at all, your optic nerves are saturated far too easily(as evident by your inability to notice ghosting). Based on USAF tests pilots were able to accurately identify aircraft when shown images for .005 seconds- you are off by over an order of magnitude. Also, 20/15 isn't exactly mind boggling, last time I was tested I was 20/10(although that was several years ago as of this point). Not that that in and of itself is enough in terms of vision.

Have you even tried a 16ms panel? If so, which one and which games did you play?

Numerous panels and numerous games. I've spent the most time on a Dell 2001FP(a few different panels, they seem to be quite popular) and tried several games- Q3, UT2K4, CS(original, haven't seen the Source version yet) and JK:JA that I've played fairly recently. All of them had significant issues with ghosting. For that matter, when fast scrolling the 2001FP exhibits ghosting quite clearly.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I guarantee I have better eyes than you and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Either you have much lower standards then some other people or your eyes are not close to as good as you think they are.

20/15 as of last year. I could be a fighter pilot.

Have you even tried a 16ms panel? If so, which one and which games did you play?

You could also be a fry cook at Mickey D's. Would you be winking all the time flying jets? After all, you should only give your very best in the armed forces.

 

[nitromullet]

Look, you guys can argue this all you want to, but there will never be a concensus on this. I think it boils down to what the individual feels. Personally, I was never a big fan of LCD's because of ghosting. Now, I own a 2005FPW and am a total LCD convert - I hate my CRT at work. Is it because I spent $500+ on an LCD? Maybe... Who cares? I've played HL2 Deathmatch on it almost everyday since HL2DM came out, and I'm happy with it... Is there ghosting? Yes, of course there is... Is it enough to bother me? No...

It's a personal decision whether you're a fighter pilot or a fry cook... If it works for you, cool. If it doesn't stick to CRT. My advice if you are buying an LCD to replace a CRT, don't get rid of your CRT until you have tried out the LCD.

 

[Rumour]

I am planning on purchasing a widescreen LCD monitor for a system that I am building, and the response time issue is worrying me. I am looking at the following monitors:

SAMSUNG 243T
Native Resolution: 1920 x 1200
Brightness: 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 500 : 1
Response Time: 25 ms
View Angle: 170° / 170° (Horizontal / Vertical)
Input Connectors: 15-pin D-sub, DVI-D
Features: Narrow Bezel Design, Pivot Technology, Ergonomics, Height Adjustment and Swivel, Dual CPU Input
Dimensions & Weight: 23.1" x 20.2" x 9.7"(WxHxD) / 21 lbs.
Cost: $1,899.00

SONY SDM-P234/B
Native Resolution: 1920 x 1200
Brightness: 250 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 500 : 1
View Angle: 176° / 176° (Horizontal / Vertical)
Response Time: 16ms
Input Connectors: DVI-D and HD-15
Dimensions & Weight: 21.0? x 16.9? x 9.8? (WxHxD), 21.4 lbs.
Cost: $1,599.00

DELL 2005FPW
Native Resolution: 1680 x 1050 @ 60Hz
Contrast Ratio: 600 : 1
Brightness: 300 cd/m2
Response Time: 12ms grey-to-grey, 16ms black-to-white
Viewing Angle: 90° / 90°
Input Connectors: Analog/Digital/S-Video/Composite
Dimensions & Weight: 15.3" x 18.6" x 9" (HxWxD), 17.64 lb.
Cost: $561.75

I came across this thread via Google, and I registered to ask this question, really:

I imagine that I would notice a significant drop in ghosting between 25ms and 16ms, but would it be that noticeable between 16ms and 12ms?

I realise that the 2005FPW is much cheaper, but as a very avid gamer of every genre (though mostly online roleplaying games; I am planning this system largely for an upcoming title called Vanguard), gaming quality is very important to me, and the unusual native resolution of the 2005FPW, as well as its smaller size, puts me off.

Also, is ghosting much more noticeable in fast-paced FPS environments where there is a lot of camera movement, or would it be no better nor worse in online roleplaying titles like EverQuest II (hate it, just an example) or the upcoming Vanguard?

Advanced thanks to anyone patient enough to answer this inquiry. I am new to LCD monitors.

 

[cbehnken]

To me the 2001FP doesn't look too bad in Everquest II

The text around creatures blurs sometimes, but I notice that on CRTs too.

Meh, not that big of a deal. Try it, if it bothers you but a 100 LB 22 inch CRT. There are about the same price...

 

[Rumour]

That is currently what I have, actually.

 

[BFG10K]

Heck, plug your CRT back in and look for ghosting and I bet you'll see some.

No you won't.

 

[TantrumusMaximus]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Kalisperas
I just got my first LCD, a ViewSonic VP171b-2. It's an 8ms monitor, and contrary to all the reports I had seen about no ghosting, I actually find the ghosting pretty noticeable. I'm coming to believe that the people who say they can't see ghosting on LCD's just don't know what to look for. For anyone who's not sure, try moving a card around in Solitaire at different speeds, and watch the edges to see if they leave a slight trail against the backgrounds. In an FPS, turn at low to medium speed and watch for blurring around the edges of objects against the background or other objects. I noticed it much more on The Sims 2, whenever I'd scroll the screen everything would blur pretty bad. Like hatim said, it's subtle on faster screens, but it's a bit distracting to me. Guess I'll just have to learn to ignore it, or wait for the first batch of 1ms screens!

I don't understand people like you. I bet the first thing you did when you got the monitor was fire up solitaire and scowl at the ghosting. I think most posts about the VP171B have stated that ghosting is there to be seen if you're looking for it. I don't know about you, but I buy games to play them and if you do, you won't see ghosting. Heck, plug your CRT back in and look for ghosting and I bet you'll see some.

Ease up man. He was trying to explain how someone can understand what ghosting is. I bet most people that can't seem to comprehend ghosting are the ones that came into PC's later in life that never really gamed on CRT's. I get NO ghosting whatsoever on my CRT none. If I play the same games on my laptop, I can't stand it! Headache city. FPS on LCD sucks.

 

[sodcha0s]

I have a Viewsonic VP171b and the thing that irritates me the most about it is scrolling lines of text. As soon as I start to scroll, the text is just a total blur and it's hard to tell where I left off. I think the games actually look better than on my old Trinitron.... a lot more vibrant. (Maybe because is was dying? dunno...) The ghosting in games isn't a problem to me, like a lot of people have said it's not really noticeable unless you're specifically looking for it. Personally I think there's more advantages to a good LCD, so I'm happy with it.