17" LCD $69.99 AR + shipping

[corwin]

Didn't see this posted anywhere yet so thought I would get it out here.... PCMALL has the GEM 17" for a nice price after 2 rebates ($90 and $20 total of $110) good till Feb. 15

LINK


Monitor Size 17in.
Viewable Size (inches) 17
Pixel Pitch .264 mm
Response Time 8ms
Maximum Resolution 1280 x 1024
Brightness/Luminance (cd/m2) 300
Contrast Ratio 500:1

 

[BadThad]

Yea, that's a great AR price. I nabbed a MAG 17" LCD for $79 from BB on black friday (no rebates) and this is less than that AR....but $110 in rebates is pretty hefty.

 

[Richardito]

I own that GEM LCD monitor and it is starting to fail about 1 year after I bought it. It goes white, the screen freezes and starts to wash off the colors among other things. To get it back to normal I need to disconnect and connect again the power brick. Seems to be something defective. Besides that it has been a pretty good monitor.

 

[f4phantom2500]

lol, i just picked up an old 19" viewsonic crt from craigslist; it's got that fishbowl kinda screen, but it does 1280x1024 at 85Hz (no black bars on the sides) and looks great. $40, and it came with 2 25" crt tv's lol.

i don't get it, what's the big deal with lcd's? i mean don't crt's have better color reproduction? my desk space isn't worth the extra $, if that's the thing...

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
lol, i just picked up an old 19" viewsonic crt from craigslist; it's got that fishbowl kinda screen, but it does 1280x1024 at 85Hz (no black bars on the sides) and looks great. $40, and it came with 2 25" crt tv's lol.

i don't get it, what's the big deal with lcd's? i mean don't crt's have better color reproduction? my desk space isn't worth the extra $, if that's the thing...

Easier on the eyes for those of us who stare at a monitor many hours of the day

LCDs aren't as good in color reproduction or response time unless they're pricey ones. I can't tell the difference between close shades of color so I just bought a low response-time Viewsonic 19" WS LCD.

 

[esquared]

Again, I don't mean this as a threadcrap but we had two GEM LCD's at work a few years ago that both had a cascade of dead pixels after about a year. Literally hundreds of them. Hopefully their LCD's have gotten better. Once bitten, twice shy for me.

 

[unclebabar]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
lol, i just picked up an old 19" viewsonic crt from craigslist; it's got that fishbowl kinda screen, but it does 1280x1024 at 85Hz (no black bars on the sides) and looks great. $40, and it came with 2 25" crt tv's lol.

i don't get it, what's the big deal with lcd's? i mean don't crt's have better color reproduction? my desk space isn't worth the extra $, if that's the thing...

Uses half the energy or less, no refresh flicker so easier on the eyes, can place monitor further way (i think the ergonomic recommendation is at least 18" way) but you may not care about any of that

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: unclebabar

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
lol, i just picked up an old 19" viewsonic crt from craigslist; it's got that fishbowl kinda screen, but it does 1280x1024 at 85Hz (no black bars on the sides) and looks great. $40, and it came with 2 25" crt tv's lol.

i don't get it, what's the big deal with lcd's? i mean don't crt's have better color reproduction? my desk space isn't worth the extra $, if that's the thing...

Uses half the energy or less, no refresh flicker so easier on the eyes, can place monitor further way (i think the ergonomic recommendation is at least 18" way) but you may not care about any of that

is the only reason they're easier on the eyes because of the refresh flicker? anything ~75 or lower on a crt bothers me because i can see the flicker, but i usually try to keep my monitors at 85 or 100hz and it looks fine, much easier than the lower ones. the energy savings thing isn't an issue as electricity is covered in my rent so it won't really cost me any more to run it, and i could use the extra desk space but it's not that big a deal; is there something else about lcd's that makes them inherently easier on your eyes? because my eyesight isn't the greatest and i think it's been getting worse since i got into computers (especially back when i was gaming like 8 hours a day or more lol).

 

[corwin]

Originally posted by: esquared
Again, I don't mean this as a threadcrap but we had two GEM LCD's at work a few years ago that both had a cascade of dead pixels after about a year. Literally hundreds of them. Hopefully their LCD's have gotten better. Once bitten, twice shy for me.

No problemo...not making any guarantees as to fit, finish, quality, or suitability to any particular task.....just passing along a decent deal to the masses, even if it is steep on the rebate side


PS Not that this would make it much better if you did have issues but it does have a 3 yr parts and 2 yr labor warranty.....

 

[corwin]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500

Originally posted by: unclebabar

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
lol, i just picked up an old 19" viewsonic crt from craigslist; it's got that fishbowl kinda screen, but it does 1280x1024 at 85Hz (no black bars on the sides) and looks great. $40, and it came with 2 25" crt tv's lol.

i don't get it, what's the big deal with lcd's? i mean don't crt's have better color reproduction? my desk space isn't worth the extra $, if that's the thing...

Uses half the energy or less, no refresh flicker so easier on the eyes, can place monitor further way (i think the ergonomic recommendation is at least 18" way) but you may not care about any of that

is the only reason they're easier on the eyes because of the refresh flicker? anything ~75 or lower on a crt bothers me because i can see the flicker, but i usually try to keep my monitors at 85 or 100hz and it looks fine, much easier than the lower ones. the energy savings thing isn't an issue as electricity is covered in my rent so it won't really cost me any more to run it, and i could use the extra desk space but it's not that big a deal; is there something else about lcd's that makes them inherently easier on your eyes? because my eyesight isn't the greatest and i think it's been getting worse since i got into computers (especially back when i was gaming like 8 hours a day or more lol).

Yes there is, there is significantly more glare on a glass tube (even flat tubes) than an LCD

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: corwin
Yes there is, there is significantly more glare on a glass tube (even flat tubes) than an LCD

idk, my 21" fd trinitron tube monitor is pretty glareless and looks really nice...

 

[unclebabar]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
is there something else about lcd's that makes them inherently easier on your eyes? because my eyesight isn't the greatest and i think it's been getting worse since i got into computers (especially back when i was gaming like 8 hours a day or more lol).

CRT (cathode ray tubes) operate by firing an electron beam from the back of the tube to the screen which excite phoshors on the screen creating colors. Obviously you get 1/r^2 losses, which shouldn't be a big deal if you are far enough away (re: getting a electron beam shot at your eyes). TFT (thin film transistors) operate by varying the amount of electricity to tiny transistors in the screen. You also have a backlight, which I don't have any information to comment on, but assume it's nothing extraordinary, alhough if you want the brightness cranked up that may be a factor to consider. Of course there may be other reasons and some or all of this information may be totally wrong, as I do not work in the industry.

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: unclebabar
CRT (cathode ray tubes) operate by firing an electron beam from the back of the tube to the screen which excite phoshors on the screen creating colors. Obviously you get 1/r^2 losses, which shouldn't be a big deal if you are far enough away (re: getting a electron beam shot at your eyes). TFT (thin film transistors) operate by varying the amount of electricity to tiny transistors in the screen. You also have a backlight, which I don't have any information to comment on, but assume it's nothing extraordinary, alhough if you want the brightness cranked up that may be a factor to consider. Of course there may be other reasons and some or all of this information may be totally wrong, as I do not work in the industry.

if i'm not mistaken, it takes a little bit of time for the crystals (i guess is what they're called) on an lcd to change colors, which is why they have a response time, and a crt operates as quickly as the electrons can shoot down the tube (speed of light lol)...however on lcd's that can go like black to white to black...or however they rate it, in like 8ms or less it's not a big deal at that point anymore because it's practically instantaneous.

 

[clipperfixer]

I have no technical reason for why lcd's are easier on my old man eyes, they just are! I have a CRT at work, they won't give me a lcd. One day I guess I will have to buy my own.

 

[osiris3mc]

f4phantom2500 - it appears you are pretty much set on crts no matter what people say. So, just go with it. Unless someone basically shows you a study that shows crts will literally kill you, I think you are gonna shoot down whatever anyone says.

Personally, I love making the switch. Those crts just look ridonkulous.

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500

Originally posted by: unclebabar
CRT (cathode ray tubes) operate by firing an electron beam from the back of the tube to the screen which excite phoshors on the screen creating colors. Obviously you get 1/r^2 losses, which shouldn't be a big deal if you are far enough away (re: getting a electron beam shot at your eyes). TFT (thin film transistors) operate by varying the amount of electricity to tiny transistors in the screen. You also have a backlight, which I don't have any information to comment on, but assume it's nothing extraordinary, alhough if you want the brightness cranked up that may be a factor to consider. Of course there may be other reasons and some or all of this information may be totally wrong, as I do not work in the industry.

if i'm not mistaken, it takes a little bit of time for the crystals (i guess is what they're called) on an lcd to change colors, which is why they have a response time, and a crt operates as quickly as the electrons can shoot down the tube (speed of light lol)...however on lcd's that can go like black to white to black...or however they rate it, in like 8ms or less it's not a big deal at that point anymore because it's practically instantaneous.

Ok... for one yeah, CRTs involve an electron gun just like the TVs do. With the CRT monitors it has one huge e-gun that shoots rows of electrons across the screen, and that's why there can be horizontal lines with refresh rate probs and what not. The thing is that the e-gun has to be freakin powerful to cover the whole screen, and there's a lot of excess. That's why the old school monitors suffered from burn in. The excess electrons actually COOK YOUR FACE! Ok it's not that bad but there are a lot of excess electrons that are really hard on the eyes.

LCD monitors have a similar thing, except it's not an electron gun. It uses electrons to excite the pixels to a certain wavelength and amplitude, wavelength giving you different colors and amplitude making it brighter. The thing is there's no excess electrons, which is why the power consumption is lower and it's usually easier on the eyes. The only thing stopping the pixels changing at the speed of light is the material used to make the pixels. Some are better than others obviously, and the good ones have better response times.

So it's up to you. LCDs have come a long way recently and are really nice. But if you don't care then stick with CRTs. I'm sure you'll be forced to switch in the next 10 years when your monitor dies and nobody has CRTs anymore.

 

[cyberia]

Does anyone have experience with this manufacturer's/retailer's rebates?

 

[f4phantom2500]

lol, i see your points guys, i'm not saying lcd's suck, the thing is nobody's gonna sell me a good (no ghosting, etc) 17" lcd (~same viewing area as 19" crt right?) for $40 and throw in 2 tv's; so it's not that i like crt's more it's just that they're so freakin' cheap nowadays. i got my 21" free a few years ago because my dad used them at work and they were gonna throw it out cuz they thought something was wrong with it, and they let him have it. turns out it worked fine, idk what the issue was. whenever something like this happens with an lcd i'm sure i'll love it, and i'm not saying $70 is a 'bad' deal for an lcd, but when crt's are so cheap...

 

[cheap]

f4phantom2500: I have a CRT but recently I bought an HP Laptop and I was surprised how much crisper the text was on LCD on my laptop. It was night and day. It's just the way the technology works, CRT is always going to be blurry (raygun shooting accross the screen isn't very crisp or precise), while LCD is nice and crisp with its fixed pixel digital display. Reading web pages and text is a huge improvement over CRT, you just have to see it for youself side by side. But of course LCDs are still a bit slow in response time. But as soon as I can find a 20" widescreen LCD that can do 75hz at its native resolution, I'll be all over it like a cheap hooker. The problem for me is, right now none of the LCDs will even do 75 frames per second (they don't really have refresh rate, pixels are constantly on, like a light bulb). All the 20" LCDs can only do 60HZ at native resolution. And since I like to play FPS games I'm not willing to settle for 60 frames a second in my games (I'm pretty competitive). But yeah, LCDs have a much nicer, crisper picture, which is a lot nicer on the eyes, they're just not as fast as crts right now.

 

[f4phantom2500]

do lcd's have that flicker thing going on that crt's do?

i use an lcd at work, i believe it's a 19" viewsonic or dell monitor, but dunno much about the specifics. i mean, i've used some, nothing against them, but i don't have the greatest eyesight anyway (20/60 one eye 20/70 the other...possibly due to crt's lol) maybe i haven't just used really good ones. there's one of those huge widescreen mac lcd's in one of the offices at my office, the lady that used it left and they're getting someone to replace her, but right now the thing's not being used. next time i get a chance though i'll try to get a closer look at it.

 

[cheap]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
do lcd's have that flicker thing going on that crt's do?

i use an lcd at work, i believe it's a 19" viewsonic or dell monitor, but dunno much about the specifics. i mean, i've used some, nothing against them, but i don't have the greatest eyesight anyway (20/60 one eye 20/70 the other...possibly due to crt's lol) maybe i haven't just used really good ones. there's one of those huge widescreen mac lcd's in one of the offices at my office, the lady that used it left and they're getting someone to replace her, but right now the thing's not being used. next time i get a chance though i'll try to get a closer look at it.

LCDs don't flicker like CRTs. It's a digital display that has pixels always on. CRT pixels fade until next refresh, that's where you see flicker. Think of each pixel in LCD display like a seperate light bulb that can change colors. It's always on, but it takes a bit time to change color. So for most large size LCDs, frame rate is limited to 60. Which mainly affects games. Compare LCD side by side to CRT and you will see a huge difference in text sharpness. 20/70, jeez, you're nearly blind, probably have to wear them binoculars. I was 20/30 a year and a half ago, probably worse now .

 

[f4phantom2500]

lol...thanks...i guess lol. i don't think 20/70 is "nearly blind" the only things i have problems with are:

1. driving...need them to read street signs, but if i know where i'm going or don't need to read a street sign i'm fine.
2. taking notes when far away from board
3. seeing people as they walk towards me. well, i can see the person it's just i usually have to wait until they're pretty close to tell for sure who it is.

i try not to wear my glasses more than i have to because the first year i wore them all the time and when i went in to get reexamined they were slightly worse. i can read the text on this monitor fine and i'd say im at least 18" away from it.


as for the lcd thing, yeah, that makes sense, i mean i knew it was just the 'crystals' or whatever they're called changing color but i didn't really see how that was like the refresh rates of a crt since you don't have the flicker. thanks for the info.

 

[cheap]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
lol...thanks...i guess lol. i don't think 20/70 is "nearly blind" the only things i have problems with are:

1. driving...need them to read street signs, but if i know where i'm going or don't need to read a street sign i'm fine.
2. taking notes when far away from board
3. seeing people as they walk towards me. well, i can see the person it's just i usually have to wait until they're pretty close to tell for sure who it is.

i try not to wear my glasses more than i have to because the first year i wore them all the time and when i went in to get reexamined they were slightly worse. i can read the text on this monitor fine and i'd say im at least 18" away from it.

That's pretty much how I am. A year and a half ago, my doc said my optimal sight is about 2 feet since that's how far away my monitor is located and my eye's lenses got used to that distance (after 10 years of pc use) and have hard time adjusting to anything further. When I'm driving for example and I don't know the streets I have hard time making out street names until I'm really close to them. But generally I'm fine during the day. When it gets really bad is during the night. Everything just gets so blury I can't make anything out. It gets to the point where it's hard to tell if someone ahead of me is slamming on his breaks or not, that's how blury it gets. That's when I have to put my glasses on.

 

[f4phantom2500]

oh wow, yeah night isn't really a problem i mean the tail lights are fine, i don't have a problem with that. of course it's clearer with my glasses on but i'd be fine without it...it's just street names and such. i might even go as far as to say that i prefer driving at night because the cars are all easily visible because of the huge contrast between their lights and the darkness, plus you don't have to deal with the sun. the only down side is dumbasses who try to cross the road or animals at night.

anyway, this is way off topic now lol...>_> if you want we should continue this convo in the ot forum.

 

[JaNeMentNeMusor]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500

Originally posted by: unclebabar
CRT (cathode ray tubes) operate by firing an electron beam from the back of the tube to the screen which excite phoshors on the screen creating colors. Obviously you get 1/r^2 losses, which shouldn't be a big deal if you are far enough away (re: getting a electron beam shot at your eyes). TFT (thin film transistors) operate by varying the amount of electricity to tiny transistors in the screen. You also have a backlight, which I don't have any information to comment on, but assume it's nothing extraordinary, alhough if you want the brightness cranked up that may be a factor to consider. Of course there may be other reasons and some or all of this information may be totally wrong, as I do not work in the industry.

if i'm not mistaken, it takes a little bit of time for the crystals (i guess is what they're called) on an lcd to change colors, which is why they have a response time, and a crt operates as quickly as the electrons can shoot down the tube (speed of light lol)...however on lcd's that can go like black to white to black...or however they rate it, in like 8ms or less it's not a big deal at that point anymore because it's practically instantaneous.

Electrons do not fire at the screen with the speed of light Their speed is dependent upon the acceleration they receive, which in turn depends on the voltage difference between the electron source and the electrodes by the screen.


Flickering is not a problem for most people if the CRT refresh rate is kept above 85Hz. Thus, ignoring flickering, it is reasonable to say that CRT and LCD has the same effect on eyes of the user (provided the same screen size, viewing distance etc.). A person that sits in front of the screen 16/7 will equally screw up own eyes regardless of the monitor type. That is due to the following two reasons:

• We uncounciasly forget to blink our eyes in front of a bright source, which is not good for the eyes

• By looking at a monitor, we essentially look at one very limited area in front of us. It is not natural for eyes to be pointed in one direction (as well as focused at a fixed depth). Muscles that control eye position get strained very fast and worn out, thus resulting in their worse functionality in the future (read: worse vision)

However, as it was already mentioned, the drawback of the CRT monitor is the leftover radiation from electrons bombarding the screen. It does not nessesarilly affect the eyes, but it does affect the overall health of the user. For example, a man that sat in from of a 6-7 year old 19" CRT monitor (note, I am talking about considerably older CRT's, I am sure that is not the case anymore) for straight 48 hours would very likely loose his ability to reproduce. I do not, however, have a source to support the last statement. That information was provided to me by an older professional.


Getting back to the main topic of the thread, this is a great price for someone that is willing to deal with the rebates. It would be great if someone could provide an insight on quality of these rebates.