.

[GamerExpress]

I am surprised, I consider Seagate one of the more reliable HDD manufacturers out there.

I hate MAXTOR.

 

[cmv]

Originally posted by: GamerExpress
I am surprised, I consider Seagate one of the more reliable HDD manufacturers out there.

I hate MAXTOR.

Working in a data center == realizing all hard drives suck.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Greg04
all drives eventually fail.

QFT

IBM had the Deathstar.

WD did a recall a few years ago.

Maxtor had those horrendous 20/30/40GB slimline drives.

Now Seagate has failing 300GB 7200.8 drives.

I predict Samsung's next.

The only drive failure I've personally had in a few years was a couple of months ago with a 200GB 7200.7 Seagate.

Working in computer repair since 1994, have seen ALL brands fail. Every. Single. Last. One. Same with any other type of computer part. I've seen failed examples of all motherboard brands. All optical drives. Etc.

 

[WaltC]

AT home I've been running a pair of Maxtor 300gb SII's in RAID 0 through a Promise Fasttrack 4200 controller since January '05 without difficulty of any kind. My home system also houses a couple of WD 120gb drives running in normal IDE, also without problems. Through the years I've owned dozens of varying drives by all of the major manufacturers (*except* IBM) and have to say I've experienced but a single drive failure and that one I chalked up to longevity as the drive had been used reliably for years before failure.

Many others have made pertinent suggestions as to cooling, ventilation (always mount your HD's a space apart, if possible), psu's and so on, but I have one last suggestion to make:

Change your HD vendor/reseller. I remember once buying two ABIT motherboards from the same vendor that were both bad ROOB, which turned me against ABIT at the time. These boards weren't just "bad" they were electrical disasters... After some research, though, I reached the conclusion that probably my mistake had been the particular vendor I chose at the time--probably he'd been trading in "factory reject" boards bought on the gray market which had been marked for destruction at the factory but were gathered up by an "enterprising" employee and sold to a reseller, instead. Food for thought, especially as you've had so many bad drives sequentially from apparently the same vendor.

 

[Ibwrong]

Im trying to return a pair of 250s right now but I was trying to quote the smooth chip incident and everyone keeps telling they dont know what the heck Im talking about. Greg, do you remember who you talked to at tech support when you had your problems?

Thanks for you time and efforts.

Best regards,

 

[smoothmove]

I recently RMA'd a Seagate 300gb drive- drive # 1. I paid for advanced replacement and received a drive in 5 days- 2nd day shipment mind you. I pulled the HD - drive # 2 out of the super foam box they sent. When I picked it up, it drive #2 made a clinking noise inside. I plugged in in and the thing rettled and shook. It appears that one of the hd plates dislodged and was loose. That drive - # 2- was DOA.

I called them to get a new RMA for the drive # 2 they sent me on my original RMA drive # 1. After going back and forth with them- 5 calls. They shipped me out another drive-(drive # 3). This time they were nice enough to ship the drive out via ground service. So it will take a total of 9 days to get to me from when they shipped it out.

I called customer service and so far have spoken to a Robert, a Nancy, a Stacy, a Steven and a Carol. I find it funny that all 5 people have a strong INDIAN accent. Now I am not easily offended, BUT when you give a person who's name is probably Pindu or Habib and name like Steve or Robert, I get a little annoyed.

I will not be buying a Seagate hard drive again. I have never had any problems with Western Digitals RMA procedure and have always had good result- and had spoken to an American.

feel free to chime in:thumbsdown:

 

[zjontran]

I bought 2 Seagate 7200.8 250GB SATA hard drives a week ago, to find this topic right after i orderd.
I was hoping that the Seagates wont die on me. BUT, they both died in less than a week. I joined Anandtech just to tell everyone that...

 

[mindless1]

It seems you owners need to accumulate some data. Surely someone out there with one of these drives has a thermal sensor they can just strap onto the smooth chip and report their temp?

I tend to disagree with what one poster wrote that drives don't need fans. It's all relative. They need a certain amount of airflow and if your case doesn't provide it without fans, you'll have to add some. Just because some past era drive ran in the sahara desert ok doesn't mean you can assume some other new product will. With high performance and shrinking chips (higher integration) it's not uncommon to have higher heat density.

Maybe it would be prudent of Seagate to put a passive heat spreader over these chips. Maybe if your data is important you should do this yourself with frag tape (so it's not permanent). Of course a different drive "might" not have the exact same failure point and might be a better alternative if your case has poor airflow.

Also consider the shipper. Personally I try to avoid having UPS ship anything delicate. It might be an unfair presumption to make but of all packages I've received that looked a little worn from shipping, most were delivered by UPS.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: mindless1
It seems you owners need to accumulate some data. Surely someone out there with one of these drives has a thermal sensor they can just strap onto the smooth chip and report their temp?

I tend to disagree with what one poster wrote that drives don't need fans. It's all relative. They need a certain amount of airflow and if your case doesn't provide it without fans, you'll have to add some. Just because some past era drive ran in the sahara desert ok doesn't mean you can assume some other new product will. With high performance and shrinking chips (higher integration) it's not uncommon to have higher heat density.

Maybe it would be prudent of Seagate to put a passive heat spreader over these chips. Maybe if your data is important you should do this yourself with frag tape (so it's not permanent). Of course a different drive "might" not have the exact same failure point and might be a better alternative if your case has poor airflow.

Also consider the shipper. Personally I try to avoid having UPS ship anything delicate. It might be an unfair presumption to make but of all packages I've received that looked a little worn from shipping, most were delivered by UPS.

I have had the same experience with the postal service. But at least with UPS they will pay for the first $100 of anything damaged or lost. Federal Express does the same thing.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: GoogerI have had the same experience with the postal service. But at least with UPS they will pay for the first $100 of anything damaged or lost. Federal Express does the same thing.

They'll pay for obvious damage, sure, but I'm talking about more subtle damage. If you go to UPS and tell them your hard drive worked for 8 months when you believe it should've lasted 6 years, I think they'd blink a couple times then say "so sorry" and that's about all.

BTW I didn't mean to come off like I was completely blaming owners for drive failures in my prior post, not at all, but "sometimes" there are some things one can do to put the odds more in one's favor and if these chips are running hot, airflow will tend to be such an issue.

 

[Jimmah]

OP: That really sucks bud, a run of bad luck isn't fun at all.

I've had two 80gb Seagate SATA drives fail on me, a 120gb Samsung, 5gb Quantum, 8.1gb Fujitsu, 1.2gb Seagate, 40gb Western Digital, 20gb Maxtor, 4.3gb Quantum Bigfoot (what a shat drive) and one huge SCSI drive (can't remember brand name) that had about 800mb storage and was about 10lbs and big as a shoebox.

Anything and everything mechanically operated WILL FAIL, nothing can get around that. I don't have a favorite manufacturer, I like whats on sale like most people, so saying one is crap over another isn't really fair unless they do deserve it. Time we moved into solid state and left these archaic devices behind.

 

[Goi]

OK, so my spontaneous reboots turn out to be the drive. Now the drive doesn't boot up, chkdsk gives me so many problems that it says stuff like "insufficient space to correct errors" and "unspecified error" and often just freezes during the check. Also, when I use another boot drive and try to transfer data over, large file transfers(originally >500MB but now something like >10MB depending on the drive's mood) would cause the system to freeze, forcing a reboot. Also, sometimes the drives will just suddenly disappear from explorer. I guess mine's a dud too.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Goi
OK, so my spontaneous reboots turn out to be the drive. Now the drive doesn't boot up, chkdsk gives me so many problems that it says stuff like "insufficient space to correct errors" and "unspecified error" and often just freezes during the check. Also, when I use another boot drive and try to transfer data over, large file transfers(originally >500MB but now something like >10MB depending on the drive's mood) would cause the system to freeze, forcing a reboot. Also, sometimes the drives will just suddenly disappear from explorer. I guess mine's a dud too.

If it's having trouble due to a chip overheat situation, lay the drive upside down on a desk and point a fan at it while it's running. Try to boot and copy off data after system had been off, chip is cool(er) still. That's if it is erring during use, if data was already corrupt your luck has run out.

 

[Goi]

I think you hit the jackpot. I just took the drive out and directed my 80mm side intake fan to the drive, and I'm backing up my files, and it hasn't frozen yet. I'm up to a couple GB so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I guess mine's the smooth chip heat problem too? Will Seagate RMA this?

Edit: I switched the position of my 2 SATA drives that are back to back. Now the Seagate is in the middle of 1 of my drive cages with nothing below it and the other SATA drive above it, which means the integrated fan that ventilates this cage actually blows cool air across the Seagate rather than before when the smooth chip was wedged between the Seagate and the other SATA. Anyway, it seems to be working now, but I think I should still RMA it. The question is, will they give me another faulty drive?

 

[GTaudiophile]

I have a 400GB 7200.8 drive, running in my Ubuntu Server 5.10 system. It's been running fine 24/7 for the past two months.

 

[smthmlk]

i've got two of the seagate 300GB 7200.8 sata drives, a 300GB pata version as well, in addition to 2 250GB 7200.8's, a 200GB 7200.8. No problems with any of them so far. One of the 300GB sata 7200.8's and the two 250 7200.8's are in a server running 24/7 for about a year.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Goi
I think you hit the jackpot. I just took the drive out and directed my 80mm side intake fan to the drive, and I'm backing up my files, and it hasn't frozen yet. I'm up to a couple GB so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I guess mine's the smooth chip heat problem too? Will Seagate RMA this?

Edit: I switched the position of my 2 SATA drives that are back to back. Now the Seagate is in the middle of 1 of my drive cages with nothing below it and the other SATA drive above it, which means the integrated fan that ventilates this cage actually blows cool air across the Seagate rather than before when the smooth chip was wedged between the Seagate and the other SATA. Anyway, it seems to be working now, but I think I should still RMA it. The question is, will they give me another faulty drive?

The particular Seagate may be a little more susceptible to overheat, but it is expected that any drive will have poor lifespan wedged in without sufficient airflow. You may now find your other drive becomes problematic.

Sad truth is that many cases are not suitable for placing drives in their drive rack at all, let alone putting one drive atop another. There should be a minimum of 1cm between each drive when there is a pusher fan in front of, directly coupled with the cage so there is no air loss around the cage rather than through it, and more space between drives if the flow is not contained in the cage , channeled until exiting at rear of cage, or if it's a passive intake with only chassis exhaust fans in the rear for cooling.

When a software reports the temp of the drive, it reports only the temp at one spot, typically in a chip with such a sensor. That temp is not an indication that whole drive is cool enough, similar to how your system "temp" taken by a sensor in a chip on your motherboard, is no indication that another part on your motherboard (like the CPU) is cool enough. Each part of the drive is subject to it's own heat generation and 'sinking effectiveness so it has commonly been misconstrued that when a manufacturer specs a temp, that this is the temp some softwares report, that it is weighed against the absolute temp threshold.

you should consider using another case, or moving the 2nd drive to another location in same case at the very least.

 

[Goi]

I'm using an Antec Plusview 1000AMG, which is quite a good case in terms of space and ventilation. There are 2 80mm front intakes and 2 80mm rear exhausts, as well as an 80mm side intake, so I hardly think that cooling is a problem. On my other drive cage, I currently have 3 HDDs stacked with no space between them, and that cage doesn't even have a fan unlike the one that the Seagate is in. No doubt this isn't a good solution but it's temporary since I'm putting back my retired 180GXP as the temp boot drive while I back stuff up(usually that cage has only 2 drives, with the middle slot empty). I have had no problems thus far with any of the other drives, some of which date to 3-4 years ago, and some of them working in a much warmer climate than where I am now(winter in ny), so this new Seagate(<5 months) definitely has a problem, as others have mentioned as well. Poor lifespan shouldn't be <5 months. They have a 5 year warranty, so it should be expected that they work for at least that long. My concern now is that if I rma this drive, will they give me another faulty drive?

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Goi
I'm using an Antec Plusview 1000AMG, which is quite a good case in terms of space and ventilation.

It is only good if you do not stack drives. I have a very similar case, and ended up putting an add-on drive rack into it on the floor of the case behind the lower intake fan simply because it cannot cool more than 1 drive effectively and one drive moderately. In other words it has exactly 1.5 suitable drive bays. If they had been concerned about drive cooling, rather than putting 3 "slots" in one rack, they would've put 2 slots spaced out towards the middle so both had some space above and below them. Unfortunately this type of problem is all too common, they care less about the actual functionality of the design than the "paper specs" of it, how many bays they can list as a feature- nevermind how poorly it (doesn't) work to use them.

There are 2 80mm front intakes and 2 80mm rear exhausts, as well as an 80mm side intake, so I hardly think that cooling is a problem.

The simple advice I gave previously, certainly suggests it. You pointed a fan at the drive to improve cooling. Take away the cooling by putting it in the case, see problems reoccur and the cause seems obvious enough- you didn't design the system config to adequately cool the parts.

Cooling is not about # of fans nor fan rate, etc. It's about actually getting ample flow rate (offset by air temp) to the hot part, even the specific subcomponent IC on a part. 300 fans in a case will not be enough if the chip getting hot is wedged inbetween two large chunks of metal where there is insufficient flow.

On my other drive cage, I currently have 3 HDDs stacked with no space between them, and that cage doesn't even have a fan unlike the one that the Seagate is in. No doubt this isn't a good solution but it's temporary since I'm putting back my retired 180GXP as the temp boot drive while I back stuff up(usually that cage has only 2 drives, with the middle slot empty).

I could be polite, but it would be a disservice and only further misconceptions rather than stating it clearly- You should never have stacked the drives like that and you are solely to blame if any fail, if any data is lost as a result. There is no such thing as "ok since it's only temporary". Drives should not be powered on at all in an environment where they can get overly hot for any single moment. It is not subject to your wishes, desires, interpretation, needs, etc, etc, it is solely subject to keeping the drive components always cool enough. It may be that these drives make that more difficult than some, or it may not- the beginning is to use appropriate cooling and then you can collect temp data.

I have had no problems thus far with any of the other drives, some of which date to 3-4 years ago, and some of them working in a much warmer climate than where I am now(winter in ny), so this new Seagate(<5 months) definitely has a problem,

Maybe, but there is no proof of that yet. The drive may in fact have a problem but until you have set a system up properly you have no way to determine whether it is a problem or not. Citing a situation where "some old" old drive works is no evidence of a different product's fitness. You, as system "designer" are required to set up the system, THAT SYSTEM, as IT needs to be, not how some other system or parts would need be.

I have outlined the basic requirements. If your old drives worked well regardless, you are lucky. Set the system up properly then you will have a better idea whether your drive is bad- though at this point you may have more subtle damage because it was overheating up until now.

It has been fairly common knowledge that drives need better cooling than they used to. Where were you? Same goes with any part, did you think you could cool a new CPU same way you did a Pentium 1, or 7800GT with same 'sink as a Riva 128?

A system must be set up to cool the parts used, not set up to cool some other part that does same function.

as others have mentioned as well. Poor lifespan shouldn't be <5 months. They have a 5 year warranty, so it should be expected that they work for at least that long. My concern now is that if I rma this drive, will they give me another faulty drive?

It would not be surprising at all if it failed in a couple weeks if you let it persistently run too hot. That is your fault alone. If you now set up proper cooling and THEN a different drive (NOT the drive you've already subject to constant overheating up until now) fails, you have then demonstrated a problem with the drive. The 5 year warranty is NOT meant to cover misinstalled drives, it is for a properly set up system. Same goes for any parts, the warranty is not an all-encompassing do-whatever-you-want blanket coverage, you still have to design and implement the product properly.

Sorry my post seems harsh, but you are going nowhere fast if you feel assuming you can just do (whatever) is ok, rather than taking the time-tested and proven strategies to cool parts adequately. The drive may very well be bad enough to be defective but until you use better cooling methods you cannot know this. It is NOT expected that any modern drive will do very well sandwiched in against another drive, you have no alternative at all for data storage if you plan to do that except very old low-heat drives or flash memory.

 

[Goi]

I understand your concerns about heat, but what I was trying to show was that I don't think heat is a problem in my case. I have been building my own systems for over a decade, so it's not like I'm an amateur. I know that cooling isn't about how many fans I have, but the cooling setup of my particular case is pretty good if you ask me, and many other cases are built on the same setup. If cooling were such a problem for drives, we'd see a lot more drives failing, and not just Seagate 7200.8 ones. Anyway, I have no wish to continue this debate. It seems the OP hasn't been replying to this thread for a while anyway.

 

[mindless1]

Actually, there are a ton of other drives that fail from overheating, you just don't see cumulative reports about it unless you start up a thread that covers "brand X" "family 7200.Y", then out of the 80,000 drives sold (admittedly I am making up fictional numbers here), if there's a roughly 5% failure rate (not uncommon), that's 4000 drives that'll fail. Certainly most people won't be AT forum members but out of 4000, there's bound to be a few.

The general problem is that case manufacturers have a general lack of regard for users' parts. They add a feature as a selling-point, but only in a shallow way that they anticipate will help sell the product rather than actual benefit for the purpose. Then there's EMI considerations- they can opt to build the case such that it would pass regulations then it's up to the end-user to modify the case so that it works well but no longer passes those EMI regulations. Sad but true, there are a lot of issues within the evolution of PCs that it will take time to sort out legally.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Goi
I think you hit the jackpot. I just took the drive out and directed my 80mm side intake fan to the drive, and I'm backing up my files, and it hasn't frozen yet. I'm up to a couple GB so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I guess mine's the smooth chip heat problem too? Will Seagate RMA this?

Edit: I switched the position of my 2 SATA drives that are back to back. Now the Seagate is in the middle of 1 of my drive cages with nothing below it and the other SATA drive above it, which means the integrated fan that ventilates this cage actually blows cool air across the Seagate rather than before when the smooth chip was wedged between the Seagate and the other SATA. Anyway, it seems to be working now, but I think I should still RMA it. The question is, will they give me another faulty drive?

I called Seagate and told them nothing but the drive series and that I heard a "clicking"
That launched the "smooth" chip lecture and was sufficient for them to tell me to do the online RMA for *all* of my drives.

For the record, I saw a few posts here about heat and drive placement. Like others, I have been building systems for more than 15 years and know how not to overheat a drive. There is no debate - this series of drive and mine specifically, has a heat problem. Period. Seagate id'ed the specific chip. I don't know what else to say other than Seagate themselves admitted the problem, identified the chip, and promised to go and sin no more.

 

[Andres3605]

Are you sure it's not something else killing your drives, I have use at least 15 of them in diferent sizes and interfaces and i haven't got a single problem with my or with my friend's builts, some of them running in htpcs and servers 24/7.

 

[Clauzii]

I hear you!

edit: This was a reply to Budman on page one.... don´t no why it ended up here

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: Clauzii
I hear you!

Who me? I wasn't even talking.