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[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Greg04
... promised to go and sin no more

My nonsense alarm just went off.
Your embellishment is no substitute for checking parts when you build a system.


1st drive fails, maybe random.
2nd drive, something funny going on.
3rd drive not just overheating but left to do it until drive failure results in RMA?
4th drive- no comment necessary!

I presume you know that other drives use the smooth chip?

If a Pentium 1 ran ok with a 72 cubic cm heatsink so I put one on a P4 and it overheats, was it intel's fault that their chip produces more heat and needs more cooling? Yes, it is intel's fault it produces more heat as they designed it, but it was MY fault if i let it overheat.

 

[Clauzii]

Originally posted by: Ike0069

Originally posted by: Clauzii
I hear you!

Who me? I wasn't even talking.

LOL!

 

[Muadib]

I have a 300GB that died right out of the box. I couldn't return it though, because it was 4 months before I got around to installing it in my Tivo. How is Seagate's return policy? Do they cross ship? Is there any chance they will give me a SATA for my PATA?

 

[Clauzii]

R U kiddin´ me??

5 out of 5 drives - U need 2 check Your Rig!

PS: NEVER had a bad HD..... )

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Clauzii
R U kiddin´ me??

5 out of 5 drives - U need 2 check Your Rig!

PS: NEVER had a bad HD..... )

I know this is beating a dead horse, but here goes: I did check my "rig". I have several different systems that had several different drives. All other variables were controlled, I have been building systems for 15-20 years, and Seagate acknowledged what the problem was. The reason you never had a bad drive is that you haven't been far enough around the block. Anyone that has been there long enough eventually gets a bad drive. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Pariah]

That many failures for one person, and the obvious faulty part in those drives is the person using them.

The SR reliability survey results don't mean much. The formula for calculating reliability is heavily biased towards older drives. You're not going to see high percentages from any of the current generation drives because of that.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Pariah
That many failures for one person, and the obvious faulty part in those drives is the person using them.

The SR reliability survey results don't mean much. The formula for calculating reliability is heavily biased towards older drives. You're not going to see high percentages from any of the current generation drives because of that.

Hey Einstein, how do explain the fact that I had 12 other drives in all the systems that were there BEFORE I installed the seagates, and AFTER I had them fail? And hey, for a backup, the fact that Seagate acknoweledged the defect.

I'm almost positive that you are baiting...no one could be that stupid in real life.

 

[SMOKE20]

Curious, what exactly was the problem Seagate acknowledged?

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Greg04...no one could be that stupid in real life.

It wouldn't be hard, just randomly guess that misconfiguring a system will always be ok because "some" parts aren't dead as a result, but then watch HDDs fail one after another after another after another after


Once again I'll state the obvious. There has to be hard data rather than finger pointing. Measure the (supposed overheating) Smooth chip temp and determine a failure threshold. Look up the specs for the chip and see WHY it's failing, maybe, perhaps if Seagate didn't follow proper trace-as-sink design measures or fed it too high a voltage. When suggesting a specific failure mechanism but argining against prudent cooling measures, you would have to establish the specific supposed-failing part was not operating as it was supposed to.

If the smart chip is operating as it's designed to, it was only a matter of your not providing enough airflow, misuse of the drive. Conspicuously lacking is any mention of temp measurements, and yet that is REQUIRED to ascertain whether the environment was appropriate.

On the other hand if it's staying under it's spec'd temp thresholds and still failing, the fault is more easily isolated.

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Pariah
That many failures for one person, and the obvious faulty part in those drives is the person using them.

The SR reliability survey results don't mean much. The formula for calculating reliability is heavily biased towards older drives. You're not going to see high percentages from any of the current generation drives because of that.

Hey Einstein, how do explain the fact that I had 12 other drives in all the systems that were there BEFORE I installed the seagates, and AFTER I had them fail? And hey, for a backup, the fact that Seagate acknoweledged the defect.

I'm almost positive that you are baiting...no one could be that stupid in real life.

Woops, the new guy has all the answers AND the attitude to go with it. Way to go chip.

 

[imported_bajan]

Hmm, thanks for the heads up man. I bought two of the same model drives around June last year and one of them started to give me trouble a few days ago. I had them mirrored. I rebooted the system because i installed a program and i found that it was taking way too long for Windows to start. So there i was thinking "great, that program has screwed it up..." until i heard it..... "SCRAAAAAAAPE CLICK".

Hmm, good thing they have good warranties. I just hope that the other one doesn't crap out on me before i get the replacement. That would not be funny.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Pariah
That many failures for one person, and the obvious faulty part in those drives is the person using them.

The SR reliability survey results don't mean much. The formula for calculating reliability is heavily biased towards older drives. You're not going to see high percentages from any of the current generation drives because of that.

Hey Einstein, how do explain the fact that I had 12 other drives in all the systems that were there BEFORE I installed the seagates, and AFTER I had them fail? And hey, for a backup, the fact that Seagate acknoweledged the defect.

I'm almost positive that you are baiting...no one could be that stupid in real life.

I assume you were referring to yourself in the last line. I find it hard to believe someone could go through that many drive failures before making a concerted effort to pinpoint the problem and remedy the situation. The old saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" certainly applies here. One failed drive shouldn't be any cause for concern, once you get the third one, any remotely intelligent person would notice something odd, as hard drives should never fail that frequently in normal use. I have not heard of anyone with that many failures out of that many drives for any drive model ever, not even the infamous 75GXP, which would be a clear indication that either you are the unluckiest hard drive user ever, or you're subjecting the drives to conditions they obviously don't like. By the time you get to 7 failures or however many you ended up with, and you still haven't made any adjustments to how the drives are used/mounted, then the level of the stupidity by the user is difficult to truly grasp.

 

[mindless1]

Let's just delete the thread title string, opening post text, and all the text from all users posts inbetween then and now.

It'll be like the bermuda triangle of anandtech!

 

[Clauzii]

....

 

[Clauzii]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Clauzii
R U kiddin´ me??

5 out of 5 drives - U need 2 check Your Rig!

PS: NEVER had a bad HD..... )

I know this is beating a dead horse, but here goes: I did check my "rig". I have several different systems that had several different drives. All other variables were controlled, I have been building systems for 15-20 years, and Seagate acknowledged what the problem was. The reason you never had a bad drive is that you haven't been far enough around the block. Anyone that has been there long enough eventually gets a bad drive. It's just a matter of time.

Since ZX80/81...

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Clauzii

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: Clauzii
R U kiddin´ me??

5 out of 5 drives - U need 2 check Your Rig!

PS: NEVER had a bad HD..... )

I know this is beating a dead horse, but here goes: I did check my "rig". I have several different systems that had several different drives. All other variables were controlled, I have been building systems for 15-20 years, and Seagate acknowledged what the problem was. The reason you never had a bad drive is that you haven't been far enough around the block. Anyone that has been there long enough eventually gets a bad drive. It's just a matter of time.

Since ZX80/81...

The problem can be compound. Sometimes a user thinks "I've been doing this a long time, I know what I'm doing", so they end up skipping steps a true systems engineer and integration team would be doing. For example, if this Smooth chip was overheating, the system builder or drive installer should ALREADY know this, before the drive overheats and begins failing.

In other words, anyone that just thinks "some other part doesn't need X amount of cooling therefore I can safely assume THIS part doesn't", is negligent. Anyone who does not check the actual operating parameters of the specific parts in a specific system, is not really fit to be setting up systems.

Sure, any kid can fit a keyed plug into a socket, match the shape of a card slot to the card and turn a screwdriver to fasten down a part. That's NOT what building reliable systems is about, that's only assembly. Likewise, a surgeon doesn't just grab a steak knife and start jabbing you, they have to know the particulars in addition to the simplier labors involved.

If you are using a part and have not checked it's temp (and I dont' mean some SMART report, I mean actually checking it's temp of the chips), you are not fit to decide to integrate a part into a system. Seldom is this point mentioned because for quite a while people got LUCKY, in that chip densities were lower, cooling margins were higher and speeds were slower. If you're going to add a part to your system you need to step back and ask "what are ALL the things I need to check", not "this is what I can assume". Someone who never does that can have a reasonable success rate, but someone who never looks behind them when backing their car out into the street can have a high success rate too, until...

 

[Clauzii]

Totally agree.
I looked in to the operating temperature specs for a lot of HD´s some time ago, and even though I can´t remember the exact figures, the newer (Seagate 7, 8 &9) series runs hotter than the older ones. (Of course, I will say).

In my own case, if I move my HD-fan 1/4 inch up, my Seagate 7200.7+ gets up to 8 degrees celsius hotter, because of the "hotspot" in the middle of a fan (most fans out there). Don´t point that "hotspot" directly between two HD drives - as there would be an airflow of next to nothing compared to at the fanblades themselves.
Almost the same applies to the distance between the fan and the HDs. If the fan is like 2-5mm away, that same hotspot fills a big area in front of the HDs. Make at least 2-3cm between fan and drives, so the air can come "into action".

Another hint: Fans in the front should blow a little more air in to the case than is taken out on the back. Side ventilation is not always for the good btw. : In one case(!) the HD´s ran hotter with the sidefan installed compared to a sealed off hole... until We (my friend and I) got a lowspeed model (<1000 RPM). What happened is that the air taken out by the PSU got delivered by the sidefan, so the front didn´t get helped by PSU sucktion, which made the HDs hotter. Now with lower sidepanel speed, it works beutifully!
(OK, one actually don´t need side cooling for the most, unless it´s for cooling a passive cooled graphics card, or a motherboard, where the tiny little wheeeeeeeeny fan is exchanged for a passive one)

Allthough I don´t consider myself Engineer Of Them All, It didn´t take me long to realise that cooling of computers almost is an art in itself!

Today my main machine (used for making music with upto 32tracks HDrecord from one disk), allthough cooled by airfans, was measured with a professional neutrik sound pressure meter and runs at Max. 19db at ear distance (~60cm) Temp.@ CPUmax(XP1800)=42 celsius, HDmax=34celsius, ChipsetMax=29celsius, Zalman-surfaceMax=30.
(And no, I don´t use a sidefan for the Zalman cooled 9600Pro

And now I´m out of ink

Doom thee who don´t cool proper in that case!!