1950XTX Crossfire vs. 8800GTX

[UltimaBoB]

How much faster is a single nVidia DX10 card than a pair of ATI's best DX9s in current games?

 

[josh6079]

Have you not seen the G80 Reviews thread located right under this one?

 

[Kromis]

8800 owns it, and then some.

 

[UltimaBoB]

looking to compare 2 1950XTXs vs. 8800GTX not just 1.

 

[Slitherythesnake]

Originally posted by: UltimaBoB
looking to compare 2 1950XTXs vs. 8800GTX not just 1.

Even then, with settings cranked to the max (and by max, I mean 16AA and 16AF), the 8800GTX annihilates even 2 X1950XTXs. The only exception is FEAR I believe.

 

[CurseTheSky]

I believe AT's review compared X1950s in crossfire (the current best performer) against the 8800GTX. A single 8800GTX came out on top in most benchmarks, with the X1950CFs only winning a few - and even then, only marginal.

Not bad considering the $650 vs $1000+ cost...

 

[josh6079]

looking to compare 2 1950XTXs vs. 8800GTX not just 1.

Okay. Have you not seen the G80 Reviews thread located right under this one?

 

[UltimaBoB]

Yes I saw it. I wanted help finding just the stuff comparing it to 1950 crossfire.

 

[Sable]

Originally posted by: UltimaBoB
Yes I saw it. I wanted help finding just the stuff comparing it to 1950 crossfire.

Basically, it's a bit faster than it in some games, equal to it in some games and a bit slower than it in others depending on the resolutions and settings used.

Have you tried reading the reviews from the "G80 Reviews thread"?

The stuff you're looking for is in the reviews in there.

edit:

Okay, I'll help properly. Read the techreport review. That compares them.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Now, let me make it simple for you.

The 8800GTX is superior because

-its faster most of the time, even with extreme resolutions and AA/AF
-better IQ (can also do HDR plus with higher level of AA)
-lower power consumption
-enhanced pure video
-DX10, S.M 4.0 (icying on the cake)
-takes up only 2 slots, compared to 4
-less heat created compared to two cards
-doesnt suffer crossfire limitations
-no dongle needed (crossfire uses dongle)

 

[UltimaBoB]

I planned on playing Neverwinter Nights 2 mostly.

I bought a 1950XTX crossfire system. My friends all told me to WAIT for DX10 cards because there was a chance the performance boost might be substantial - more than was expected.

I didn't listen. I bought a 1950XTX crossfire system last month for $1000 on GPUs alone. I also only got a 620 watt psu - they told me to wait on DX10 for that to make sure I would have enough if I wanted 2 DX10 GPUs.

NWN2 was delayed and just came out now - I could have gotten a 8800GTX and a 1000 Watt PSU. Frthermore, NWn2 code is very demanding and even my crossfires struggle with it - I could use even more pefromance now and we havent even tried multiplayer. Plus ATI drivers suck, crossfire isn't fully supported in NWN2.

Did I make a mistake in not waiting? I am tied into ATI now too via a P5W DH Deluxe mobo as I cannot do SLI w/ nVidia. Should I have listend to everyone and waited the extra month to at least see how good DX10 would be given that my game was delayed and I couldn't even have played it during the month I would have had to wait?

I keep feeling that for an extra $300 having SLIed 8800GTXs, a future proof PSU, access to nVidia's better drivers might have been worth the $300 more and 1 month wait over crappy ati drivers and 1950XTX crossfire with a NOT future proof 620 watt psu. You think I should have waited? Was I a fool not to listen to EVERYBODY who said wait for DX10?

 

[josh6079]

Did I make a mistake in not waiting?

Yep. And you made another mistake by making another G80 thread when there is an active one with all of the benchmarks telling you what you wanted to know collected in its first post.

Word of advice, whenever there is a month away until a completely different GPU architecture hits the market, wait. Several months, eh, go for it. But one month is easily worth the coming of new, flagship technology.

Of course, now that you are already "stuck with"--if that is such a bad thing--an X1950XTX CrossFire setup, are you sure NWN2 can't use CrossFire as of yet? I would imagine that would give you decent frames in NWN2 if you forced AFR. You should be able to manually rename some .exe's to get it working. The X1950XTX's in CF are a serious setup to contend with and you really shouldn't get your e-pen!s all bent out of shape just because it's not the king of the hill in every title.

 

[Ibiza]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Now, let me make it simple for you.

The 8800GTX is superior because

-its faster most of the time, even with extreme resolutions and AA/AF
-better IQ (can also do HDR plus with higher level of AA)
-lower power consumption
-enhanced pure video
-DX10, S.M 4.0 (icying on the cake)
-takes up only 2 slots, compared to 4
-less heat created compared to two cards
-doesnt suffer crossfire limitations
-no dongle needed (crossfire uses dongle)

Absolutely right.

We've not seen the G80's true potential yet either on the current drivers.

 

[Captante]

Yes ... You made a HUGE mistake by not waiting ... happy now?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Geez, josh6079, don't be an so grumpy

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: gersson
Geez, josh6079, don't be an so grumpy

He's just tired of explaining the same stuff over and over again when it doesn't take too long to see that the guy didn't even look very hard to begin with. A simple search and he would have had his information instead he spamed the forum with yet another "which gpu is better" thread. Even when Josh6079 pointed the guy in the right direction he still didn't get the point. So in this case I can see where josh got his feathers ruffled a bit.

OP next time try doing some basic searches first before you make a completly new thread. It makes the forums just easier to manage without there being a hundred which gpu threads. As far as your concern I think you will find you set up to be just fine for a while. Yes the 8800GTX spanks it, but you wouldn't have known that if you hadn't been looking at the new gpu's. My suggestion: forget about hardware for a while and use your crossfire setup for what you bought it for. Play games enjoy those games. When you can no longer play those games with the settings you enjoy or a new game that you want to play comes along that your rig can't handle THEN look for a new setup. You will never be happy if you keep looking at the new hardware coming out, cause there is always new hardware coming out. Just turn off anandtech and play your games that you spent $1000+ to play. Other wise you sunk all that money into a machine to search the web for the next set of gpu's to sink $1000 into.

 

[UltimaBoB]

I think Josh just misunderstood me. I'm not particularly computer savvy. So my purpose was to go beyond the reviews he pointed me at and get hekp from people who know computers better than me in understanding 8800XTX specifically as compared to my 1950XTX crossfired.

I toytally see his point now - how he must be tired of the same old thing. I should have detailed more in my original post. But I didn't understand this taboo against repeat posts on things and intended to add more as a conversation with posters expanded. Sorry Josh.

See the thing is, I plan to play NWN2 - and I really wanted to play it on max settings at 1600 x 1200 Rez. But the engine is inefficent due to the need for it to be so moddable in a way even Oblivion never was meant to be. Plus maybe it was screwed up - I can't judge that.

I wanted to upgrade to DX10 in about 9 months figuring my 1950s would blow through NWN2 in the meantime. But right now, they don't. They handle the single player better than any other system I have heard of on the NWN2 forums. But fps still dips sharply in some crazy shadowy areas. Once mass multiplayer PvP starts I feel I will have to sacrifice some settings or rez to stay smooth and keep my minimum frames high.

Plus I planned on getting a 30" LCD in a couple of months and needing even more power for higher rez.

So the point of this thread was to get to know how good 8800 was compared to 8800 so I could weigh my options - get single 8800XTX now and sell my 1950s. Hold off on my LCD until I can power it in NWN2 etc...

I work in Korea as a teacher but do not speak the language and selling stuff will be a pain so I can't do a lot of turning stuff over. My mobo won't allow dual 8800XTXs. And looks like I will need 2 for my LCD given how piggish NWn2 performance is. And I am not sure that 8800XTX outpowers my 1950s by so much that 1 could run my LCD at higher rez.

So I guess I'll have to delay the LCD, lower some settings for 4 months once multiplayer PvP starts, and then sell my 1950s lowball on EBay for like $150-200 each in February. Then get dual R600s - probably need a PSU booster unit too (have 620 Watt). Sorry for not being more clear Josh. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[redbox]

Thanks for clearing some things up ultimabob. The thing about NWN2 is that it really needs patched or so I hear. I hope that after that happens the game performance will be alot better.

That LCD demand is going to be huge. If you really are set on gaming that high then expect to be buying the best of the best everytime a new GPU comes out. IMO you are really putting yourself behind the eight ball on that one, but to each there own. If those are your requirements for gaming then absolutly the 8800GTX SLI is for you. Sorry to break it to you but your current rig will have some trouble at those settings. As far as sacrificing some of the settings I used to be from your camp where I went all maxed out or went home. But I got to the point where it just made more sense to turn down the settings a bit and not spend a ton on GPU's. Alot of the time i can't tell the difference in some settings. However, it sounds like we are very different users.

The things that would help us out is if you could state how much ram you have what cpu you have what make your psu is. We can better help you if we know exactly what you rig is like right now.

I hope this helps.

redbox

 

[UltimaBoB]

Rig (6 weeks old)

E6700
P5H DW Deluxe
2 x HIS ATI x1950XTX GPUs (650 Mhz core / 2000 mhz ram)
2 x 1GB Hynix DDR 2 800 Mhz Ram
Creative Soundblaster Extreme Music
Antec P180 Case
Enermax Libery 620 Watt PSU
150 GB Raptor HDD
3.5 Inch Floppy
22" HP p1230 Diamdtron Crt (like new, used 6 months used, March 05 Manufacturing)
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
Logitech G5 Gaming Mouse

I was a Neverwinter Nights 1 (NWN1) fanatic. I played lots of PvP on the Bastions of War server. The game was never designed for 14 on 14 high level PvP actions and even now maxed settings in PvP stresses out modern rigs even on a 4 year old game!! That is NWN1!! Plus it has some CPU intensive elements - not all GPU - when played in mass PvP, again because engine was never designed for that.

We figured that NWN2 would not be that taxing in single player and PvE - like NWN1 wasn't THAT demanding in that way. But that the same dynamic would happen given that engine would not be optimized for PvP since game is not really made especial;ly for PvP like its namesake (but game was super fun in PvP nonetheless once you modded for it). So I figured I didn't want to get first gen DX10 cards and would get 1950XTX crossfire which would walk all over the game Single player and even handle multiplayer well. So I'd go 9 months on DX9s and get second generation ATI DX10s in Q3 2007. I'd get the 30" LCD in 3-4 months and maybe turn down a few settings in PvP (not many) for the first 3-4 months until my DX10 upgrade. Really, 1950XTXs should have been able to handle a 30" LCD pretty nice given they can do so in Oblivion.

But then NWN2 came out and it is crushing even high end DX9 systems in SINGLE player at rezzes much lower than that required for a 30" LCD. Can't even imagine what multiplayer PvP will be like. My 22" CRT is sweet, and I would hold onto it in case I play any twitch FPS that a 30" would be too slow for. But I'm looking forward to the thrill of big screen gaming for games that are not FPS and can play on a big LCD great if you havethe GPU power. For sure I definitely will not buy LCD now until I get dual DX10s.

But the question is what strategy to pursue now. The thing to remember is I have never sold on EBay and have no seller's rep or anything. And I live and work in Korea as a teacher but do not speak Korean so selling locally or on Korean websites is impractical due to the language barrier. I am not sure how hard that would make Ebaying stuff for me - certainly I will need to eat more shipping costs. Luckily GPUs are small. But it does make me wary to pursue any strategy that invloves trying to sequentially turn over GPUs again and again.

My system is 6 weeks old and I have all the original boxes and docs. I want dual DX10 GPUs within 5 months. So the question is how to get from here to there. Clearly I screwed up - but a lot was bad luck. If NWN2 hadn't been such a pig I could have pursued my original strategy and loved it upgrading to DX10 in 10 months or so. But what is done is done. I lost some cash cause I need first gen DX10 - can't wait for second.

If I go to dual 8800GTXs I would need to Ebay my GPUs and Mobo and get he top nVidia Mobo and two 8800GTXs. I hear that my PSU would be okay though. If I do that, how long should I wait? Have to wait for availability of 8800GTXs and get past this recall I heard about. And their price will drop as I wait. But the selling price of my components will also be dropping.

If I wait and get dual R600s I might need a PSU upgrade - or at least a booster PSU. But I can keep my Mobo. But my 1950s will sell for a lot less in March. However, R600s might be sweet. And I never planned on getting a 30" before then anyways - wasn't sure 30" LCD tech is quite there yet and thought might have better luck in SPring anyways. So I could just drop some settings for PvP in the meantime - grin and bare it. Hope for beter performance when ATI releases full Crosfire profiles for NWN2 (not have to force AFR via renaming EXE or Advanced AI settings) and also hope for some good performance boosting patches to NWN2 that make using 1950XTX crossfire more "liveable" (lol I know that sounds crazy) in the meantime. Since everything I have is at stock speeds maybe I could mildly OC my stuff to helpout as well. But wouldn't want to start having to learn about or buy 3rd party cooling stuff or even thermal compounds for CPU etc... Only so much learning I can take at a time.

What you guys think?

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Before you do any of that, just know that I've seen people posting who claim to have 8800GTXes saying that they're still getting crappy performance out of NWN2.

If you want to upgrade that's fine, but I definitely would not recommend upgrading just for this particular game. The NWN2 engine is garbage and seems to have no consistency as to what the actual problem is.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: UltimaBoB


I keep feeling that for an extra $300 having SLIed 8800GTXs, a future proof PSU, access to nVidia's better drivers might have been worth the $300 more and 1 month wait over crappy ati drivers and 1950XTX crossfire with a NOT future proof 620 watt psu. You think I should have waited? Was I a fool not to listen to EVERYBODY who said wait for DX10?

are you calling a x1950 xfire setup CRAPPY ?

 

[redbox]

Thanks for the quick response.

You are in a pickle. If you look to sell your current stuff the forums here have a pretty good system. Since you are new they will probably expect you to ship first but that should be about the only problem. That and you living in Korea and the shiping costs. I don't think that the price will drop that much on these GPU's untill there is some competition. They are priced right for their performance. The recall only affected a small number of them and from what I hear is already handled. You shouldn't have any recall problems.

I think it would be wise to hold out on your 30" lcd desires untill you have the horsepower to run it. Like you said you don't want to be turning over GPU's all the time and at that res you most certainly will be.

What ATI drivers are you using? There are some other drivers out there that can make things easier on you. I would suggest talking to Josh6079 or gerrson as they know their ATI stuff pretty well. Perhaps you can get NWN2 to play better with your 1950's.

I wouldn't really suggest overclocking your rig at this point. You won't get the performance you looking for out of it and you'll just end up sinking money into water cooling. Kinda nice to have around but it doesn't pay in performance for the cost.

Looking at This Bench it looks like you could be ok with just one 8800GTX. What frames are you getting in NWN2 right now?

My suggestion is just to try and sell your current GPU's and with that money get a single 8800gtx. That way you don't have to switch out a motherboard again when R600 gets here and you want that card. Plus you should have enough money left over to be able to get a really good psu that could handle some of your needs in the coming months. That setup should really be able to handle NWN2 pretty well at your current res. That way you don't waste much cash and still get better performance.

Hope this helps.

redbox

 

[Modular]

Wow, why didn'y you wait Bob? Those cards are going to be selling for <300 each soon...

 

[josh6079]

Geez, josh6079, don't be an so grumpy

Sorry. It's just that with G80 being the prime time, there are threads and threads about it and some of them have been created so as to collect a certain area of information about it, such as Overclocking, Reviews, Orders, etc. By making another thread that asks a question that was answered in another active, first-page thread just gets irritating. That thread I linked was intended to keep threads like this from popping up every time a buyer had a comparison question. Then upon my linking of it, it was as if he still didn't look for his answer. Redbox was pretty accurate.

I think Josh just misunderstood me. I'm not particularly computer savvy.

You're question was about the performance. How "savvy" does a bar graph in a review look?

I toytally see his point now - how he must be tired of the same old thing. I should have detailed more in my original post. But I didn't understand this taboo against repeat posts on things and intended to add more as a conversation with posters expanded. Sorry Josh.

Likewise, sorry if I came off a little strong but we don't want a full forum page of threads that all ask the same questions.

Don't go bother with a 30" until every review shows NWN2 getting good frames with that resolution.

Hold off with the X1950's in CF for a little bits since selling them can be a pain for you and your location. They'll play everything really well and it isn't the end of the world if you have to turn down some useless settings in NWN2 that I've found only hurt performance and give next to nill in image quality. I haven't had any problems with it but from what I hear the game needs to be patched. When it does get patched it may do better. 8800GTX in SLI would probably give you just as unsettling issues considering Vsync and SLI are jacked up (at least for that game). So you'll either have fast graphics with a tearing screen or uniformed graphics with low frames.

Don't stress so much about configuring a way to get an 8800GTX, or 8800GTX SLI because by the time you might be ready for it it might be one month away from R600 and/or G81. Just get yourself ready for another upgrade and right when the new technology hits, and if it's worthy, jump on it.

 

[UltimaBoB]

I didn't want first generation DX10 - by all rights Crossfire XTXs should have owned the hell out of NWN2 at any settings at 1600 or 1920 rez. Then I could have upgraded in a year. Plus, most did not expect DX10 cards to own DX9s THIS badly out of the gate. So at the time 1950s until Q3 2007 seemed like a good plan - who even knew if DX10s would be on time, be uggy at first, or offer that much more DX10 performance etc...

It was NWN2 - the game I bought my rig for - having totally unexpected massive hardware requirements that sandbagged my plan.

I think that since I want to avoid Ebaying as much as possible I might just grin and bare it until R600. If I sell me cards for an 8800GTX now it probably won't help me out on NWn2 much vs dual 1950s and I can't SLI it since my mobo is wrong. BTW NWn2 doesn't even have AA right now lol - and it is crushing systems. So I wouldn't even get fancy AA support from 8800GTX. And getting an 8800GTX w9ould force me to Ebay the 1950s then ebay the 8800GTX to get dual R600s OR my mobo to get one I can SLI with.

Guess best option is to wait for R600s and then Ebay my 1950s or use forums. At that point I can firsale them for $200 each and chock up the $600 loss as learning experience / bad luck fee + "rental" for 4-5 months of gaming. Turning Rez down one notch or shadows off for 4 months during multiplayer is something I'll just have to live with I guess lol Oh woe is me! And who knows, MAYBE the combination of a real NWN2 crossfire profile with performance patches for NWN2 will make this go away - at least to the point where I can run 1600 x 1200 rez for 9 months at maxed settings (skip the 30" LCD for 5 months longer). I doubt NWN2 patches can massively increase performance esp. since when they offer AA and HDR support (coming soon) systems will take another hit. Still, I can cross my fingers. I can stomach holding off on the LCD an extra 6 months more than I planned. My 22" HP CRT actually owns even if it is smallish lol.

I just was freaking out cause I sopent so much money hoping to just run NWN2 at max in PvP and now there was some doubt. Needed help talking my way through the sudden suicidal depression fit - but I think I have regained some measure of composure now hehe. It is all a lot to take in for a guy who literally knew nothing about computers 8 weeks ago. This is my first high end machine.

The ANtec P180 sees like a decent case and the HIS 1950s have pretty big fans. You sure I couldn't overclock anything in mys system even a bit in the meantime without needing cooling?