1999 Firebird Questions

[BlackTigers]

So I saved up some change, and my parents and grandparents offered to help me buy a nicer car for my graduation (but it'll be sort of a Christmas/Graduation/Birthday thing, so the purchase will hopefully be sooner rather than later. ANYWAY, I was looking at a V6 Firebird, and I test drove one the other day and really liked how it felt and drove.

It had the 3800 (IIRC) V6 Buick motor, which I heard are beasts. It was the automatic, but I believe they had a matching 6 speed on the lot as well. About 87k, and it was nearly flawless as far as the body went - no rust anywhere near panels. The car was one owner and under $6k, if that matters.

But with these cars, are they money traps? Any known issues or big problems that I should know about?

I really don't want to jump over into Mustang territory, and this car was very appealing and with the V6 I won't feel like I'm going to kill myself every time I accelerate (only 17). Thanks for any help guys.

Edit: Help me on the car at the bottom, please?

Okay, so I found another car. It's a V6/Auto Camaro, 1991. It has some body damage, and the interior is clean and the car runs BEAUTIFULLY. It actually surprised me how it ran, apparently the guy dropped some cash into the suspension recently to keep that up, and the motor was tuned and restored not too long ago. I think it's got all of 114k miles on it. Here's a few pics:

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The guy said he'd let go of it for $1100, and if so, would it be worth it to restore it? I know nothing about body work, but my dad and uncle do, but they can't really give me an estimate to fix the car. How much would it take to restore the body to a decent state?

 

[bruceb]

The GM 3800 series V6 is a fine motor. But it did have issues with the lower intake manifold and gaskets failing, causing coolant to get into the motor. GM now has better manifold design, as well as aftermarket parts. But $6K may be a bit high .. check Kelly Blue Book ... Also you may need new
struts and mounts soon.

 

[scorp00]

I'd get the v8 if I was you. I have a 2000 trans am and it's a great car. Both of my firebird's have been relatively problem free. That 6 speed is either a v8 or a 5 speed, but definitely get a manual.

 

[Throckmorton]

Buying a car like that with an auto defeats the purpose. Might as well get an economy car and save some gas.

 

[bruceb]

The manual is more fun to drive, but then you have to consider clutch repairs, when needed. And the V6, even with an automatic, is still a very quick car.

 

[mayonnaise]

V8 manual. No excuses.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: bruceb
The manual is more fun to drive, but then you have to consider clutch repairs, when needed. And the V6, even with an automatic, is still a very quick car.

A sportscar isn't fun to drive without the manual, so that defeats the purpose. Even the 6 cyl is OK IMO, especially since the OP is young and it will make killing himself less likely

 

[zerocool84]

You're young. Don't listen to these people telling you to get the V8. You already said it yourself that you don't want the power. Just stick with the V6 auto. It's a fine car. Chicks will like it cus it's a Firebird. It's a V6 Firebird, manual is not ganna make that car into a sports car.

 

[BlackTigers]

Thanks guys.

We have a car with that motor, so I know how it runs, but our Buick is heavier and a bit of a sled compared to the Pontiac, so it should be more than enough power for me.

I'm not into acting like a fucking moron, and quite honestly if I had a V8 pony car, I would slip up a few times and do something stupid. I know the limits of that motor (for the most part), so the V6 will suit me fine until I decide to upgrade down the road once I can make it through my teen years and graduation, anyway.

As for the manual/automatic debate, I'm likely going to look for a stick. I just need some more practice first, I don't want to have to replace the clutch right after I buy the car, lol.

Also, thanks for the info on the gaskets bruce. I'll keep looking into this stuff.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
You're young. Don't listen to these people telling you to get the V8. You already said it yourself that you don't want the power. Just stick with the V6 auto. It's a fine car. Chicks will like it cus it's a Firebird. It's a V6 Firebird, manual is not ganna make that car into a sports car.

i agree with that. although seeing that he lives in ohio i'd advise against buying a firebird seeing you'll probably drive in snow.

 

[BATCH71]

Check your insurance rates before you buy one. A friend of the family had access to repo cars and I was to get a fairly new firebird for cost but...... I found that my insurance rates were to be astronomically high. Like $500 a month and that was 20 years ago. Just a warning

Dave

 

[Throckmorton]

Jeez.. good point about insurance. I bet even a V6 would be expensive

 

[BlackTigers]

Okay, so I found another car. It's a V6/Auto Camaro, 1991. It has some body damage, and the interior is clean and the car runs BEAUTIFULLY. It actually surprised me how it ran, apparently the guy dropped some cash into the suspension recently to keep that up, and the motor was tuned and restored not too long ago. I think it's got all of 114k miles on it. Here's a few pics:

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The guy said he'd let go of it for $1100, and if so, would it be worth it to restore it? I know nothing about body work, but my dad and uncle do, but they can't really give me an estimate to fix the car. How much would it take to restore the body to a decent state?

 

[Throckmorton]

That gen Camaro is the best looking one IMO. Timeless design that even matches the current edgy styling.

If the chassis isn't bent I'd buy it but I don't really know anything about those cars.


Replacing the panels with junkyard pulls is probably the easiest thing. The colors won't match but maybe you can rattlecan or roll on a new paintjob.

 

[Elstupido]

Not bad at all for $1100, if it is mechanically strong. Personally I wouldn't try to restore it, lots of money, but hey....if that is what you want to do, go for it! Looks like a good choice

 

[scorp00]

It's 140hp and a 0-60 in 10 seconds. Fbody's are always heavy and that one is underpowered. The 99 would be much better. If you want a third gen, then get a z28/formula/trans am. The RS's weren't fuel injected and got horrible performance & gas mileage.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
Okay, so I found another car. It's a V6/Auto Camaro, 1991. It has some body damage, and the interior is clean and the car runs BEAUTIFULLY. It actually surprised me how it ran, apparently the guy dropped some cash into the suspension recently to keep that up, and the motor was tuned and restored not too long ago. I think it's got all of 114k miles on it. Here's a few pics:

Text
Text
Text
Text

The guy said he'd let go of it for $1100, and if so, would it be worth it to restore it? I know nothing about body work, but my dad and uncle do, but they can't really give me an estimate to fix the car. How much would it take to restore the body to a decent state?

Frame damage. Run.

The severely mis-aligned passenger door is a very, very bad sign. If you plan on sinking $5,000+ into the car, then maybe, but it will almost certainly need very serious attention from a professional body shop. (It's possible that the hinges for the door are just screwed up, but it's more likely an indication of serious frame damage.)

The 3.1 litre V6 is indeed fuel injected, multiport, in fact and not just throttle body. Even with only 140 hp, they had 180 ft-lbs of torque. The car weighed about 3,000 pounds. Not light, but still not too bad (for comparison, a brand-new Honda Accord weighs 3,300 pounds).

The car does take about 10 seconds to reach 60, so it won't be fast.

ZV

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: scorp00
It's 140hp and a 0-60 in 10 seconds. Fbody's are always heavy and that one is underpowered. The 99 would be much better. If you want a third gen, then get a z28/formula/trans am. The RS's weren't fuel injected and got horrible performance & gas mileage.

The 3rd gen F-body weighs in at around 3400 - 3500 lbs. Relatively lightweight compared to most cars built today, but still a bit heavy - too heavy for the anemic V6 they came equipped with, although the 3.1 that would be in the '91 is generally held in much higher regard than the older 2.8. That said, the 3.1 V6 used in those didn't really have any major problems other than the lack of power.

Performance of the V6 3rd gens is pretty bad - although to be fair, the V6 models weren't intended to be high performance cars (3.8L V6 models not included). They needed to produce the V6 to increase their overall sales and sell to the people who didn't need / want the performance of the V8 models, which would have cost them more in initial purchase price, gas, and insurance. Ford did the same thing with the Mustang - the base model Mustang of the same year had a bulletproof, but incredibly weak 105 hp 4 cyl in it.

One correction though - the last carb'd 3rd gens rolled off the line as '87 models. '88 and up were all fuel injected, regardless of trim / engine. The TBI setup on some of the lower end V8 cars is often mistaken for a carb (it sort of resembles one) but it is actually a dual injector setup.

OP - The good thing about these cars (especially the base model / RS) is that you can find panels all day long in junkyards, and they're usually really cheap. Looks like it's going to need work in a few areas though, although none of it looks too bad. Front fender and hood are easy to replace, and that ripple in the back quarter could probably be filled rather easily. Looks like it could be a good find, as long as the body damage is all that's wrong with it and you don't mind the slowness .

 

[Black88GTA]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Frame damage. Run.

The severely mis-aligned passenger door is a very, very bad sign. If you plan on sinking $5,000+ into the car, then maybe, but it will almost certainly need very serious attention from a professional body shop. (It's possible that the hinges for the door are just screwed up, but it's more likely an indication of serious frame damage.

I saw this too...it could be frame damage, but it looks to me like the door isn't all the way shut, possibly due to the hinges being worn out / sagging. If you look closely, you can see the door trim bump strip on the door is hanging a bit below the strip on the quarter behind it, suggesting bad hinges. Door hinges are a huge trouble spot on the 3rd gens, due to the extremely long, heavy doors.

 

[dawp]

you're 17,male(I assume), Can you afford the insurance on that car? Until you reach 25, insurance is a killer. Even with the V6, I bet it won't be cheap. at your age, I'd look at something with 4-doors. The rate will be much lower and after a few years of good driving without a wreck, THEN I would consider a car like a Camaro/Firebird. You may be able to get it cheap, but the insurance could kill it.

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: dawp
you're 17,male(I assume), Can you afford the insurance on that car? Until you reach 25, insurance is a killer. Even with the V6, I bet it won't be cheap. at your age, I'd look at something with 4-doors. The rate will be much lower and after a few years of good driving without a wreck, THEN I would consider a car like a Camaro/Firebird. You may be able to get it cheap, but the insurance could kill it.

Put the car in my dad's name + put him as the main driver = cheaper insurance.

I think the difference (I have the numbers written upstairs) was something like $23/month between the Firebird and something like a Corolla or and Escort. The difference would be even smaller for the Camaro, so insurance isn't really an obstacle.

As for the rest of the thread:

1) That door on the Camaro is fine. I had just gotten out of it and didn't shut it all the way because I was going to (and forgot) to take pictures of the interior.

2) I didn't realize the V6 3rd gens were so sluggish! It didn't feel so bad, but I'm not a great judge of performance. Maybe I'll look into the 4th gens a little more, see what they have.

3) The Firebird's still an option, but after seeing the older car I definitely prefer the look and style of the 3rd's. I'll keep looking at them, and maybe I'll save some extra cash up to possibly get a nicer one. Quite honestly out of everything, I would love to be behind the wheel of a 5.0 Fox, but I can't see that happening any time soon.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Vette73]

Unless you get a rare 3rd Gen like a cop version or some other type then don;t waste money restoring it. Teh V6 in the 3rd gen is good for crusing but not much more.

The V6 in the 4th Gen was faster then some of the V8's in the 3rd gen.


At your age put money into an education first then car well after that. I wish I could have half the money I put into my first car back now. Still went to college and such and now have the Vette.

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Unless you get a rare 3rd Gen like a cop version or some other type then don;t waste money restoring it. Teh V6 in the 3rd gen is good for crusing but not much more.

The V6 in the 4th Gen was faster then some of the V8's in the 3rd gen.


At your age put money into an education first then car well after that. I wish I could have half the money I put into my first car back now. Still went to college and such and now have the Vette.

I have about seven times saved what I'm about to throw into a car (I'll pay less than $1300, regardless of which it is), I just want to have something nice for what I've worked. Might sound selfish, but I think it'd be a nice treat.

And even then, I'm not even sure I'll end up buying either one - I have to explore all my options. I need a car though, and I figured I'd get something I like rather than a hooptie that I'll kick myself for buying.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Stick a dead cow on top of it.

 

[thedarkwolf]

You don't restore v6 3rd gen f-bodies, you just drive them. You can buy a damn nice v6 one for a hell of lot cheaper then it would take to fix up that beater. If you want something nice then buy something nice.