$1B bet AGANST a pryamid scheme (HerbaLife)

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Throw Market America, Yusana, Amway, Brit World Wide, etc. into the mix.

 

[Hacp]

He didn't have anything to sell? He shorted the stock, which means he borrowed the shares from brokerage houses and sold them. That's what drove the price down to $20. The simple act of buying the shares back to return them to the lenders would have driven the price right back up.

Actually, he had been accumulating a short position for a while before the stock tanked minutes after his first presentation. He changed his short position to puts to limit his losses to 1 billion.

 

[JEDI]

The business model is proven. Cutco knives have been around for decades. Every year a new generation of suckers comes of age so they will never run out of people to fall for the scam. Just because it's a pyramid scheme doesn't mean it ever has to collapse.

why do u say that?
Bernie Madoff's did

 

[baydude]

Throw Market America, Yusana, Amway, Brit World Wide, etc. into the mix.

Have a Facebook friend who's in Market America and everyday she has all these lame tags on her status updates thinking people aren't aware what she's doing. It makes me cringe so hard!! #FinancialFreedom #Entrepreneur #BusinessOpportunity #RetireYourParents #InternetMarketing #BetterLife #LifeYourDreams

 

[desura]

The thing about Herbalife is that...if their product were any good, why isn't it in grocery stores? If I had a genuinely good drink product which helped people lose weight, etc, I'd sell it in bulk directly to costco, walmart, etc. Don't have to deal with ultra-complicated dealer schemes, just move to large retail outlets.

 

[LegendKiller]

I love how people use the "Well, Warren Buffet buys them". No crap he buys them...

1. He buys a different type of product, one that people actually use and find benefit in.

2. He buys the cashflow, not all of his businesses are going to be super-ethical, Berkshire isn't a socially responsible investment vehicle.

Herbalife is a joke, the whole thing is a scam similar to Visalus and all of the other shit you see around the health drink pyramid schemes. I personally hope Ackman wins but I don't think he will. Herbalife brought in a former FTC guy to fend off the FTC, that alone tells you they are pretty scared and need to fight even dirtier.

 

[xeemzor]

I love how people use the "Well, Warren Buffet buys them". No crap he buys them...

1. He buys a different type of product, one that people actually use and find benefit in.

2. He buys the cashflow, not all of his businesses are going to be super-ethical, Berkshire isn't a socially responsible investment vehicle.

Herbalife is a joke, the whole thing is a scam similar to Visalus and all of the other shit you see around the health drink pyramid schemes. I personally hope Ackman wins but I don't think he will. Herbalife brought in a former FTC guy to fend off the FTC, that alone tells you they are pretty scared and need to fight even dirtier.

So how do I make money out of this?

 

[JEDI]

So how do I make money out of this?

should have shorted when they were $80 recently. now at $65
u missed your chance

 

[BottledWater!]

So how do I make money out of this?

Glad you asked!

I've been looking to recruit a young entrepreneurial spirit like you. Ever wanted to run your own business? You should open up a franchise. HerbaLife has made a TON of people rich working only when they like, with no boss. My brothers friend is a millionaire, all he does is sit around and the money rolls in. I'm planning to retire when I'm 30. I like you though, you sound smart, so I'm going to give you an opportunity to get in on the ground floor!

Follow this link:

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Have a Facebook friend who's in Market America and everyday she has all these lame tags on her status updates thinking people aren't aware what she's doing. It makes me cringe so hard!! #FinancialFreedom #Entrepreneur #BusinessOpportunity #RetireYourParents #InternetMarketing #BetterLife #LifeYourDreams

I know WAAAY too many people in Dallas (mainland Chinese mostly) who are into this bullsh*t.
My current boss tried to rope me into it permanently - hell, even tried to set me up with girls who were in it.

 

[BottledWater!]

I know WAAAY too many people in Dallas (mainland Chinese mostly) who are into this bullsh*t.
My current boss tried to rope me into it permanently - hell, even tried to set me up with girls who were in it.

It is a tax on the poor which they pay voluntarily. Unfortunately, the practice is very difficult to regulate.

 

[JEDI]

Herbalife profit falls; results miss targets:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...s-miss-targets-2014-07-28?link=MW_latest_news

Herbalife Ltd. said its second-quarter earnings fell 16% amid higher expenses.

Herbalife had posted quarterly profits that topped Wall Street's expectations in 21 straight quarters, a stretch dating back to 2008.

seems Ackman has lifted the curtain and people are beginning to see the truth?
or has Ackman's crusade turned potential entrepreneurs away?

 

[Hacp]

So how do I make money out of this?

You could have made lots of money buy buying calls at a cost of 1 dollar a share at 55 and selling at 67 when ackman failed in his presentation. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[uclabachelor]

You could have made lots of money buy buying calls at a cost of 1 dollar a share at 55 and selling at 67 when ackman failed in his presentation. Hindsight is 20/20.

Or buy a shit ton of puts before earnings was released today and close em out the day after. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Jimzz]

Herbalife Working On Settlement To Resolve FTC Investigation Into Business Practices
http://consumerist.com/2016/02/26/h...ve-ftc-investigation-into-business-practices/

Still fighting to stay alive. Guess all those "donations" to congress will save them after all.

 

[ponyo]

I know it's bad karma, but I'm enjoying watching Ackman get his ass kicked. Valeant gave him a good lesson last year and now Herbalife is piling on and kicking him hard while he's down. Even before today, he had already lost and completely erased the big gains he saw in 2014 with the losses in 2015 and early 2016. Today is just going to put him further in the hole in a big way.

 

[JEDI]

Herbalife Working On Settlement To Resolve FTC Investigation Into Business Practices
http://consumerist.com/2016/02/26/h...ve-ftc-investigation-into-business-practices/

Still fighting to stay alive. Guess all those "donations" to congress will save them after all.

settled for $200M

how much did Ackman lose?

 

[JEDI]

Herbalife Squeezes Ackman Short With New $1.5B stock Buyback:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-talks-to-go-private-reaches-pact-with-Icahn

Herbalife’s shares are up about 84 percent since the day before Ackman revealed his short position.


so on paper, Ackman has lost ~$400M in his short so far?

 

[Blackjack200]

Holy shit, I thought he closed that position years ago.

 

[JEDI]

Holy shit, I thought he closed that position years ago.

yeah, same here.

Ackman started his $1 billion short bet in December 2012
$1B tied up for 5yrs and counting.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Herbalife Squeezes Ackman Short With New $1.5B stock Buyback:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-talks-to-go-private-reaches-pact-with-Icahn

Herbalife’s shares are up about 84 percent since the day before Ackman revealed his short position.


so on paper, Ackman has lost ~$400B in his short so far?

I'm presuming you mean $400M?

Anyhow, overall it's a stupid bet to take on yourself. If you want to fight it then do so by other means (publicity). You would have done better off spending that $1B attempting to organize nationwide protests, or buying commercials against them.

The thing is, these pyramid schemes are expanding LIKE CRAZY. I'm talking fucking crazy. I made a thread on this a few weeks back. Just about every stupid college whore on my facebook is selling for some stupid pyramid scheme of some type. I don't know how people can be stupid to that magnitude. Sure, you might sucker a few people to buy your stupid lipstick, but if you think that's regular basis income, you're out of your damn mind. Even if you manage to recruit 10 people under you, the chances of that expanding as slim to none. The majority will simply drop out in a matter of weeks or months (likely due to no sales, which means no commission, which means the recruitment was pointless)

 

[kranky]

I think the proliferation of the MLM programs is simply due to people not doing any due diligence (or perhaps not knowing how to) before jumping in. Somebody promises easy money selling stuff they already buy, they say "where do I sign".

And the MLM people don't really care if people drop out - most people who get into a MLM deal buy a bunch of products (at a discount, of course, since they are on the inside now). That's more stuff than what would have been sold had the person not signed up to join the program.

I think of how much Meleleuca junk my cousins ended up throwing away about 10 years ago... Three of them went all in, worked like mad for about a year trying to hawk that stuff, and eventually realized it was a waste of time. But by then, they had plenty of product clogging up the garage. It sat and sat, then they decided to throw it out.

 

[JEDI]

I'm presuming you mean $400M?

thx.
fixed

 

[LikeLinus]

What does anyone know about Advocare???? Is it a pyramid scheme? (not looking to invest, know several people who are wrapped up in this BS)

 

[kranky]

What does anyone know about Advocare???? Is it a pyramid scheme? (not looking to invest, know several people who are wrapped up in this BS)

You might find this article helpful: https://www.dallasnews.com/business...are-file-suit-allege-operation-pyramid-scheme. I liked this factoid:

According to AdvoCare's 2015 income disclosure statement, AdvoCare paid 71.5 percent of its distributors nothing in 2015. It paid 93 percent of its distributors $500 or less.