2.8ghz @ 2.8 overheating

[Overkiller]

Hello everyone,

Got my nice new system up and running:

Abit IC7 Max3
2.8 ghz P4
2 x 512 Corsair XMS Pc-3700
Enermax 465W power supply
SLK-947U w/ Smart fan 2
36GB Raptor (10K drive)


yada yada yada...

I've reset /cleaned/re-applied everything 2x already and the problem persists. IN the bios the temperature reads 50C idle and shoots up to 80+ C as soon as something intensive happens..this is @ stock everything. no prior O/C...The AS ceramique is applied on both the IHS and the Base of the Heat sink...the smart fan 2 is blowing @ full speed into the HS and the ventilation is great (i.e. a strong current of cool air from front to back...the dead zone around the cpu is covered by the intake fan of the Power supply...i.e. everything is perfect it seems)....sadly this overheating problem is still occuring. nothign seems to fix it...could it be that the HSF is pressed TOO tightly to the processor? i went to thermalright's site and twisted the screws to an identical degree(basically until the screws refuse to turn anymore)...

So what could be the problem? faulty reading from motherboard, too tight HSF, broken processor...i'm really starting to get frustrated since this was my *dream system* and its being a pain

Any and all ideas would gladly be appreciated...outside of re-applying the ceramique (no WAY i'm reseating everything!)

[Edit] Also i have CPU : Throttling in the Bios set to 25% so i.e. when the system is overheating the CPu should throttle down..no sign of this happening...so is it really bios or does it truly sound like a hardware problem...thank you everyone yet again!

 

[bjc112]

Odd,

Could be being misread, but not by that much.

Try a BIOS update, and MBM 5 ( mother board monitor 5 )

See if you get different readings.

It seems to be being misread since you are getting any throttling to kick in, to really find out if it kicks in set it @ 75% that way you will notice the speed difference..

 

[AkumaX]

touch the heatsink; if it shoots to 80c that slk must be scalding

 

[Burninator]

I have the same motherboard, p4 2.4C and the exact same RAM

Is your CPu speed set at the default if not please read off the values
What are your voltages set to?

What are your RAM values set at? ( if not stock)

Im running my 2.4C @ 2.89 right now with a max load temp of 63C Are you using the Hardware Doctor for your monitoring device?

and about the heatsink being pressed too lightly, one of the downfall of the IC7-Max3 board is how close the OTES cooling is to the CPU

Make sure the fan/heatsink "locker thingy" is past all 4 of the tabs that hold it in. When I was installing mine the plastic was making a cracking sound b/c of the pressure that was being applied to the CPU and heatsink

But make sure you get the updated BIOS it comes with v11 i think and v12 is available

Please post here once your change anything I got some good advice from looking everywhere for different setting to get mine the coolest that it could be on stock cooling while performing to the most.

I have plans of putting on a water cooler or at least getting a better heatsink b/c I wanna be able to reach 3.0 without getting to close to my max temp.

 

[bjc112]

He said everything is @ stock speeds...

I would assume voltages also.

 

[0roo0roo]

case ventilation? does it get cooler with case off? with fan blowing into case?

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
case ventilation? does it get cooler with case off? with fan blowing into case?

80C?

He would have to have the whole PC in a shoe box, something else is very wrong.

 

[mroleg]

May be you applied thermal paste wrong? By that I mean of you apply too much it may cause overheating.
Also, get a hardware temperature monitor put under heatsink as close to cpu as you can, see what temps that will show, could be winbond bugging.

 

[0roo0roo]

indeed. if it were really that hot and the heatsink is on correctly the thing would pretty much burn your finger.

plus, your cpu would throttle way slow and stuff.

my guess is the reading is wrong. or your heatsink is on horribly wrong. take the case side off

 

[orion7144]

The HSF has to be mounted wrong (don't know how that could happen with a P4 hsf). But I would also say to remove it and take all the AS off an re-apply. You only need a tiny bit on the CPU. These boards read high but not that high.

Have you use the Hardware monitor that came with the board?
Also what is your ambient room temp?

FYI My 2.4C's @ 3.4gig do not get over 60C at full load.

 

[Overkiller]

-The system temperature is @ 21-23C.
Case is an Antec SOnata which everyone says has poor ventilation but i disagree...
I have 1 - 120MM fan pushing ~ 65CFM from the front, 1 120MM fan in the back pushing out. PSU has a fan pulling air from over the CPU in (and then one on the PSU pushing it out)...and of course the Smart fan 2 pushing air into the HS @ full speed....ventilation is GREAT (as can be seen by the system temperature)

-Everything is stock:
-The chip is a 1.525V processor , 1.47-1.48V Actual
-The Heat sink IS hot
-Thermal paste is applied just like it is shown on thermalright's site
-i reallly dont want to reinstall everything
I am afraid of putting too little paste on. right now there is a pretty thin layer although i guess it can be less. how *little* should go on there (remember the HS base and the IHS require ceramique.(so about 1 cm total, .5 cm...know what i mean?). The HS is NOT mounted on wrong...trust me

Either it is a terrible reading...or too much paste (which i reallly doubt!)

off to get motherboard monitor. Thank you guys. i will keep u guys posted

[EDIT] The CPU is not throttling...i.e. i set it to throttle to 75% but when the *overheating* alarms were going off i went into CPU-Z and the processor was still @ 2.8.

 

[mroleg]

Paste should be applied the following way:

On the cpu put a litel tiny drop and spread it as thin as you possibly can with a finger in plastic bag, I am talking paper thin - the thinner you can make it the better it is.
On heatsink you have to put some paste then spread it then wipe it off with lint free cloth.

If it doesnt help, try hardware temperature sensor.

 

[Overkiller]

Done...

paper thin, still the same temps. I do not notice throttling however...:/

 

[Zar1]

Hi, guys.

2.8C @2.8Ghz
800Mhz DDR
MSI 865PE Neo2 MB
Case fan and system fan
Tried stock CPU heatsink and two others, one by Thermaltake and one by CompUSA: All the same results, basically
even tried silver thermal paste -- in several thicknesses.

But...

I have the exact same problem as Overkiller here, except my heatsink is NOT really that hot to the touch, even when it is at 60-70 C. I mean, I can touch it and leave my finger there no problem at all.

I've checked all of the same things as Overkiller has 5 or 6 times!!

I too suspect this is a bad motherboard heat sensor, but one thing: Do motherboards really have these or do they rely on the CPU for temperature information? I can't quite figure that one out.

Any help would be appreciated since this seems to be the thread for this problem. No one else I've taked to really understands the issue here.

 

[Overkiller]

The more i trouble shoot this the more the problem appears to be with my HSF + mobo choice...I am not 100% sure but the SLK947U is a very tight fit (i.e. the SLK900U doesn't fit) on the IC7-max3 b/c of the OTES cooling apparatus at the back end of the board....perhaps my hsf isn't as tight as it should be? I really don't know but this problem is very frustrating. I guess i will be ordering a zalman ALCU as soon as i have the $$ for it :/

Your problem however does sound like a faulty sensor. IF the HS does not feel hot at all and the fit is nice and tight then i am led to believe that your board is giving you the error. Also there imght be a voltage regulation problem involved?

I would probably safely ignore your problem..mine on the other hand makes me very mad b/c the HS does get very hot...sigh, $50 for that HSF combo. I had a feeling i shoulda gone w/ the Zalman ;Q

 

[Zar1]

Well, I updated the BIOS on my MSI 865PE Neo2 mobo, and for the first time, I have idle temps between 39-41C. During the problem period, it was idling at 52-58C. The idle temps I'm getting now sound a lot closer to what I was getting before all of this started.

You see, when I first set this up, I had this running on an Asus P4C800 mobo. It was all working fine and I think I was getting idle temps in the high 30s (maybe 36-38???). I was using the stock heatsink and stock thermal pad that comes from Intel with the P42.8C. Then the mobo burned out (my fault, I'm pretty sure) and I had to replace it. I got the MSI 865PE Neo2. This meant I had to take the processor and heatsink off, take off the Intel-supplied thermal pad, clean everything off, the re-grease the heatsink/cpu with thermal material and slap it back on. That's when I started getting the mid to high 50's idle temps.

Since after updating the BIOS I have gotten much more reasonable temperatures, I'm forced to conclude for the moment that the BIOS had something to do with the problem. This is consistent with the fact that the heatsink never felt as hot as the system was telling me the processor was. At times it said it was 60-70C (140F-158F) and I know it didn't feel as hot as a cup of coffee!!

Here's a question for everyone that I think is worth trying to answer:

One thing that still puzzles me is whether feeling the heatsink really is of much use in a case like this. If there is a heat-transfer problem -- that is, there is too much thermal resistance between the CPU and the heatsink -- I would think that you would expect a temperature difference between the heatsink and the processor. Thus, the heatsink would NEVER feel as hot as the CPU is.

In that case your only good bet is to measure the CPU directly/manually with a separete temperature sensor. So, it seems like feeling the heatsink may not really be a sure-fire approach, even though it seem to have been valid for my case.

Any thoughts?

P.S.:

Overkiller,

You said I could safely ignore the problem. I couldn't do that, though, because my system actually shut down on me once when it reached temps in the 75C range. That told me that I couldn't ignore it because I couldn't reliably use the system. BTW, I never noticed the CPU auto-halting and dropping the Mhz during any of these periods, but then I may not have looked close enough.

I'll have to study the system for a while, since I'm still not 100% sure I'm out of the woods yet. If I have any new results I'll post them for the benefit of whomever can profit from my sufferings.

 

[Overkiller]

I did not know your system auto-turned off, i have that option disabled here

Personally i think my problem is not bios related b/c the HSF IS very hot after running Distributed computing clients for ~10 minutes. No variation of Artic Silver Ceramique has changed this however. And the Heatsink cannot be tightened any more..I really have no IDEA what to do outside of getting a zalman ALCU and trying that out....

Glad you figured out your problem

 

[Zar1]

More on how things are progressing:

Right now I'm using the Zalman CMPS7000A-AICU, like Overkiller is talking about. Its very quiet, first of all, but its not necessarily keeping things that much cooler than my other two heatsinks (stock HSF, a $20 CompUSA HSF). The CPU bottoms out at around 38C at idle along with 35C system temps. The north bridge is actually 41C under these conditions, so its running a little hotter than the CPU at idle now. This seems pretty much like all you can expect out of the cooling system for the most part.

So, like I said, the Zalman AICU doesn't necessarily keep the temperatures that much lower in my system. Also, it doesn't seem to automatically keep the temperature swing smaller, either. The CPU still shoots from an idle of 38C to a max of 60C when running a game. I really wish I could keep that temp swing narrower, as the up and down temps must be harder on the CPU than necessary. I'm still trying to learn how some people seem to be able to keep the temp range to a 5-10C swing from idle to load. On the other hand, I've read many more accounts of people with the exact same temperature pattern as I have right now and they often just seem to ignore it and move on.

I think I have to work on keeping the case cooler somehow to improve things further. I'd like to see the system temps around 30-32C. As a test, I opened the case and opened the nearby window to let cold air in (its cold in Chicago tonight) and I got the system temp to drop to about 29C. Subsequently, the CPU idle temp then dropped to about 29C as well. So, it seems that if you can keep the system temps cooler, you can keep the processor cooler in direct proportion to that. Since you can expect teh ambient temperature in most peoples' homes to hover between 20C (68F) and 32C (90F), achieving cooler case temps seems like a worthwhile and practical way of getting lower CPU temps.

 

[Overkiller]

My case temps never rise above 24C...yes it is rather chilly i guess in Connecticut but i do have awesome airflow movement in my system. The NB is kept very cool by the monstrous HSF/fan combo on the Abit IC7-max 3...the OTES cooling apparatus is keeping all those electric8ty thingies (too late to remember..regulators, capacitators?) on the back end of the cpu very cool as well..the only problem is the cpu itself

Probably will be ordering the zalman later in the week. I need this fixed now...

Zar,

The swing is a bad part of the system but you will have to just *get used to it*. The swing is bad but it can be minimized by running DC 24/7 (so the cpu is always running full load <-- shamless recruiting statement). But if this swing is only for a few hrs every now and again then it shouldn't be a big deal. Also i have read of many using the stock intel HSF and gettig ~40-50C idle so the 60C is well within operating temps.

GLuck and keep us posted, as i will too!

 

[Zar1]

Thanks for the post. Your case temps seem excellent. Ordinary room temperature. I guess that's not a problem for you. What kind of case is it? Do you just have huge fans in it?

Anyway, I hope your new heatsink helps.



P.S.:

It just so happens I was running some more tests confirming again the importance of case temps. I got the case down to ~32C again and I was able to run the processor at 100% full throttle on SETI@Home at only 41C, and I was able to run UT2003 at 43C, which seems quite acceptable. Not only did lower case temps lower my max CPU temp considerably, but the temperature swing was also smaller (+~11C vs. +~20C).

It is obvious where I need to keep looking. Maybe I need a different case or something. Possibly a third case fan somewhere at least. The hot 9800 PRO AGP card and the wires certainly impede cool air flow. We'll see what I can do.

 

[smashp]

I can positively rule out the case,

I used a sonata for my brother in laws 3.2 ghz machine with a zalman and it is extremly cool and quiet while he is 3d modeling with autocad.

No heat problems with that case.


In my experience i have seen CPU's that are Just Bad and overheat as the such.


Ive had bad dimms burn my fingers after being turned on for less that 30 seconds.


I would RMA the board and the Chip, just to be safe.

 

[Overkiller]

I thought i stated this in my first post but it doesn't hurt to re-clarify

Case:
ANtec Sonata- 1 Antec Clear 120 MM case fan pushing 65 Cubic feet min of air into case. @ the back we have the stock 120MM case fan pushing air out, we have the Smart FAN 2 fan picking up this cool air as soon as it enters the system and onto the Heatsink. Then we have a power supply fan right above the CPU HSF combo sucking air up into the Power supply, and another power supply fan sucking air out. This is in addition to the huge northbridge HSF combo that runs @ 4600RPM (yet amazingly quiet), and the OTES cooling apparatus in the back of the cpu covering all the capacitators and such...oh and just for the heck of it a radeon 9700 pro is in there and that has a fan on it :Q

The airflow is excellent, air flows in, over the CPU, and out the back or up into the power supply. I cannot find any deadzone outside of the very top front by the DVD and CD-rw drives. maybe its like what smash said, a bad processor?

 

[Zar1]

What could be "bad" about the processor except the heat sensing diode? Could it be that the IHS is not very well secured to the chip, causing poor heat transfer? Other than that, its an object that generates heat like anything else, and so either you are adequtely "wicking" away the heat with the HSF/thermal grease or you are not.

I vote that Overkiller knows exactly what he is doing with the case temps and the HSF/thermal grease, so I reject that as any part of the problem.

So its down to a choice: Bad CPU heat diode, bad IHS, bad mobo readings (which was my problem). Maybe the other poster is right. RMA both the mobo and the CPU, since there's no real way to tell which one is the problem without having duplicates of both to swap in and out. Even if you went through the trouble of sandwiching an external thermometer between the IHS and the HSF and you found that the temps were being reported wrong, you still wouldn't be able to tell whether it was the CPU or the mobo to blame for the wrong readings. I just got lucky, a BIOS update made it clear.

 

[Zar1]

Whoops. Double post.

 

[Zar1]

Darn it, triple post. Sorry guys.