2 Abrams tanks vs. 10,000 Chinese cavalrymen: Who would win?

[Electric Amish]

What is the definition of "win"?

The people in the tank have limited food and water. All the people on the outside have to do is wait for them to come out or die of thirst.

 

[BW86]

+1 for the tank

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit

Originally posted by: SSSnail
The black powder all over the desert... lol, that would make all the cavalries go POOF that much faster as soon as the tank just fart some incendiary in their general direction.

I don't even need to blow up the tanks. Lighting millions of tons of black powder on fire would quickly create a deadly atmosphere of soot, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and sulfur products. I don't think you guys understand the implications of giving 10,000 people magical access to an unlimited amount of explosives.

Do explain how the 10,000 people will survive this deadly atmosphere. Meanwhile, the tanks drive away.

Not to mention, they're protected from biological and chemical attacks...

Seriously, some of you guys need educated yourselves on the capabilities of the M1 Abrams before arguing. In some cases, even the Abrams couldn't destroy another one with its main gun, what makes you think guys on horses will dent them?

Take me back 500 years, give me enough supplies and a few Abrams and I will conquer the world.

like what the US did in Vietnam?

Now you're just being silly, borderline stupid. Vietnam was a totally different scenario, different political atmosphere, actually there is nothing similar between that conflict and this fictional event. It was the hippies that lost the war for the US, not because they couldn't win. The North Vietnam was being carpet bombed into submission and was about to surrender when, all of a sudden, it's stopped.

I'd like to roll up to your castle in my blinged out Abrams and knock on your door, see how quickly you would change your tunes. Before you would comeback with some other idiotic rebuttals, I said conquer, not rule.

 

[DrawninwarD]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
cavalry. Eventually, they run out of fuel/ammunition

Run out of unlimited? Wow.

I've done it before. It took a very very long time. Felt like eternity actually.

 

[dabuddha]

The cavalrymen of course. They would take the horse poop and stuff the barrel of the tank. Then they'll explode next time they try to fire (using Looney Toon physics of course)

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
My apologies, I underestimated the power of Chinese resilience, as evident here it took one man with a shopping bag to stop a column of tanks.

Perhaps the people arguing for the cavalries have a point after all...

This looks like a job for Mythbusters IMO.

They better goddamn interview me for that segment.

 

[Buttzilla]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit

Originally posted by: SSSnail
The black powder all over the desert... lol, that would make all the cavalries go POOF that much faster as soon as the tank just fart some incendiary in their general direction.

I don't even need to blow up the tanks. Lighting millions of tons of black powder on fire would quickly create a deadly atmosphere of soot, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and sulfur products. I don't think you guys understand the implications of giving 10,000 people magical access to an unlimited amount of explosives.

Do explain how the 10,000 people will survive this deadly atmosphere. Meanwhile, the tanks drive away.

Not to mention, they're protected from biological and chemical attacks...

Seriously, some of you guys need educated yourselves on the capabilities of the M1 Abrams before arguing. In some cases, even the Abrams couldn't destroy another one with its main gun, what makes you think guys on horses will dent them?

Take me back 500 years, give me enough supplies and a few Abrams and I will conquer the world.

like what the US did in Vietnam?

Now you're just being silly, borderline stupid. Vietnam was a totally different scenario, different political atmosphere, actually there is nothing similar between that conflict and this fictional event. It was the hippies that lost the war for the US, not because they couldn't win. The North Vietnam was being carpet bombed into submission and was about to surrender when, all of a sudden, it's stopped.

I'd like to roll up to your castle in my blinged out Abrams and knock on your door, see how quickly you would change your tunes. Before you would comeback with some other idiotic rebuttals, I said conquer, not rule.

Doubts surfaced as to the effectiveness of large-scale, sustained bombing. As Army Chief of Staff Harold K. Johnson noted, "if anything came out of Vietnam, it was that air power couldn't do the job.[162] Even General William Westmoreland admitted that the bombing had been ineffective. As he remarked, "I still doubt that the North Vietnamese would have relented."[162] The inability to bomb Hanoi to the bargaining table also illustrated another U.S. miscalculation. The North's leadership was composed of hardened communists who had been fighting for independence for thirty years. They had successfully defeated the French, and their tenacity as both nationalists and communists was formidable.link

 

[thecrecarc]

For all those who claim the tank will win, what would the tank crew eat? What would they drink? How in the world do you think they could outlast 10k cavalrymen?

Also, the range of the tank is 300 miles. What would they do after that? Unlimited ammo ain't gonna help.

Cavalrymen FTW!

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
For all those who claim the tank will win, what would the tank crew eat? What would they drink? How in the world do you think they could outlast 10k cavalrymen?

Also, the range of the tank is 300 miles. What would they do after that? Unlimited ammo ain't gonna help.

Cavalrymen FTW!

What are the cavalrymen- and horses- going to eat/drink? In the middle of a desert?

 

[spikespiegal]

The North Vietnam was being carpet bombed into submission and was about to surrender when, all of a sudden, it's stopped.

One of the most absurd pieces of revisionist history I've ever read. Even Robert McNamara admitted years later that the U.S. strategy of strategic bombing was next to useless because the N Vietnamese were simply too good at moving supply routes and didn't need much logistics to maintain a war of attrition. I don't even think nuking Hanoi would have changed their resolve.

As for the impervious M1 tank, I guess some of you didn't see the footage a couple years ago of the flaming M1 on a street in Iraq that had to be towed with chains out of the way after it was hit with some surplus Russian ordinance designed by, ahem, Russian weapon engineers to kill M1 tanks. So, it would only take a couple infantrymen out of that Horde of 10,000 to pop the M1's and call it a day. If some Israeli tank crews were driving though...better odds for the tank.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Depends if they have black tipped rounds (tungsten rounds) or not, a tank is fairly vulnerable if you can get on top of it and black tips will penetrate and kill through the thinner armor on the top.

However, two tanks SHOULD be able to keep them at bay for a fair amount of time with the main cannon and secondary weapons without too much trouble.

The MAXIMUM range is a long way away, you can fire up to 100 meters away with the cannon and still mow the rest with secondary weaponary.

All in all, my money is on the tanks but 10k is a lot if they spread out and it's quite possible that the last man standing if they have access to black tips could be the chinese, if they don't have that, forget it, then it's the tanks hands down.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Depends if they have black tipped rounds (tungsten rounds) or not, a tank is fairly vulnerable if you can get on top of it and black tips will penetrate and kill through the thinner armor on the top.

However, two tanks SHOULD be able to keep them at bay for a fair amount of time with the main cannon and secondary weapons without too much trouble.

The MAXIMUM range is a long way away, you can fire up to 100 meters away with the cannon and still mow the rest with secondary weaponary.

All in all, my money is on the tanks but 10k is a lot if they spread out and it's quite possible that the last man standing if they have access to black tips could be the chinese, if they don't have that, forget it, then it's the tanks hands down.

600 meters with the shotgun stuff...then machine guns when they're in range..then drive away until you're at maximum range for the big gun, rinse, repeat.

 

[Eeezee]

Wow... who resurrected this thread? It's as old as dirt!

 

[Finalnight]

Zerg Rush FTMFW!

 

[indamixx99]

Could you get to the exhaust pipe of the tank? Maybe stick a giant potato in there.. ?

 

[Cattlegod]

in addition to just digging a hole for the tank to fall in and suffocate the crew. Can't the cavalry just use their infinite ammo to make a 300 foot deep layer of shot that is a million square miles to bury the tank?

 

[thecrecarc]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
For all those who claim the tank will win, what would the tank crew eat? What would they drink? How in the world do you think they could outlast 10k cavalrymen?

Also, the range of the tank is 300 miles. What would they do after that? Unlimited ammo ain't gonna help.

Cavalrymen FTW!

What are the cavalrymen- and horses- going to eat/drink? In the middle of a desert?

Each other, or dead horses. You can hardly eat a tank.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
For all those who claim the tank will win, what would the tank crew eat? What would they drink? How in the world do you think they could outlast 10k cavalrymen?

Also, the range of the tank is 300 miles. What would they do after that? Unlimited ammo ain't gonna help.

Cavalrymen FTW!

What are the cavalrymen- and horses- going to eat/drink? In the middle of a desert?

Each other, or dead horses. You can hardly eat a tank.

No, but you can eat cavalrymen and dead horses. :Q

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
in addition to just digging a hole for the tank to fall in and suffocate the crew. Can't the cavalry just use their infinite ammo to make a 300 foot deep layer of shot that is a million square miles to bury the tank?

And how much friggin time are you going to give them to do that? Really, some of you lost your cabbage.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
in addition to just digging a hole for the tank to fall in and suffocate the crew. Can't the cavalry just use their infinite ammo to make a 300 foot deep layer of shot that is a million square miles to bury the tank?

And how much friggin time are you going to give them to do that? Really, some of you lost your cabbage.

Apparently these guys have an infinite length of time to do all this stuff, too...

I guess they forgot that the cavalry dudes will be taking fire from over a third of a mile away..

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: indamixx99
Could you get to the exhaust pipe of the tank? Maybe stick a giant potato in there.. ?

/thread

(finally)

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: indamixx99
Could you get to the exhaust pipe of the tank? Maybe stick a giant potato in there.. ?

/thread

(finally)

Do potatoes come as standard issue to Chinese cavalrymen?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: videogames101
Tanks will not be opened without serious application of force, and infantry can't apply that much force, without explosives, or a huge lever.

Hence, tanks win.

The Chinese have used gunpowder in warfare for more than 2000 years. I remember the latest figure I read put it at more than 1k years before the West came to know of it.

Something crazy, anyway. I often ask myself wtf kept them from conquering the entire world. Then I remember: Genghis motherfucking Kahn.

 

[adlep]

The range onf the M1A1's Rheinmetall cannon is at least 5 miles for the unarmored targets.
It also has this ammo available:
"he new M1028 120 mm anti-personnel canister cartridge was brought into service early for use in the aftermath of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. It contains 1,098 3/8 (this will hurt) inch tungsten balls which spread from the muzzle to produce a shotgun effect lethal out to 600 m. The tungsten balls can be used to clear enemy dismounts, break up hasty ambush sites in urban areas, clear defiles, stop infantry attacks and counter-attacks and support friendly infantry assaults by providing covering fire. The canister round is also a highly effective breaching round and can level cinder block walls and knock man-sized holes in reinforced concrete walls for infantry raids at distances up to 75 meters."

The rate of fire is at least 5 rounds per minute, so it means that within one minute, the Abrams can hurl 5500 3/8 inch tungsten balls at the charging enemy.
It will also deploy its smoke grenades and it can setup a huge smoke screen within few seconds.
Not to mention the fact that the M1 Abrams can sustain speed that is equal or greater than the speed of a charging horse. It means that the distance between the cavalry and tank will not change.

Therefore, it all will be over within 5~10 minutes.

Edit: Read about Abrams on Wiki

Wiki Link

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit

Originally posted by: SSSnail
The black powder all over the desert... lol, that would make all the cavalries go POOF that much faster as soon as the tank just fart some incendiary in their general direction.

I don't even need to blow up the tanks. Lighting millions of tons of black powder on fire would quickly create a deadly atmosphere of soot, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and sulfur products. I don't think you guys understand the implications of giving 10,000 people magical access to an unlimited amount of explosives.

Do explain how the 10,000 people will survive this deadly atmosphere. Meanwhile, the tanks drive away.

Not to mention, they're protected from biological and chemical attacks...

Seriously, some of you guys need educated yourselves on the capabilities of the M1 Abrams before arguing. In some cases, even the Abrams couldn't destroy another one with its main gun, what makes you think guys on horses will dent them?

Take me back 500 years, give me enough supplies and a few Abrams and I will conquer the world.

like what the US did in Vietnam?

Now you're just being silly, borderline stupid. Vietnam was a totally different scenario, different political atmosphere, actually there is nothing similar between that conflict and this fictional event. It was the hippies that lost the war for the US, not because they couldn't win. The North Vietnam was being carpet bombed into submission and was about to surrender when, all of a sudden, it's stopped.

I'd like to roll up to your castle in my blinged out Abrams and knock on your door, see how quickly you would change your tunes. Before you would comeback with some other idiotic rebuttals, I said conquer, not rule.

Doubts surfaced as to the effectiveness of large-scale, sustained bombing. As Army Chief of Staff Harold K. Johnson noted, "if anything came out of Vietnam, it was that air power couldn't do the job.[162] Even General William Westmoreland admitted that the bombing had been ineffective. As he remarked, "I still doubt that the North Vietnamese would have relented."[162] The inability to bomb Hanoi to the bargaining table also illustrated another U.S. miscalculation. The North's leadership was composed of hardened communists who had been fighting for independence for thirty years. They had successfully defeated the French, and their tenacity as both nationalists and communists was formidable.link

I'm glad you can read, and Google for information. :thumbsup:

Do continue to believe everything you read though, it's been doing well for you. The North was ready to wave the white flag (it would be debatable whether it would be a tactic to stop the bombing while both sides negotiate), but they were ready to do so had the bombing continued for another week. Yes some Vietnamese were very resilience, but so were the Japanese .

Westmoreland was right though, those hardliners will continue to fight, even after the main government surrenders. The US could have won that war on papers, and the South could have taken over, but there will always be resistance. Shit, for almost a thousand years they rebel against the Chinese.

I really wished the US government back then had the same nation building policy they had now with Iraq, that is to leave when the interim government is strong enough to stand on its own. Instead, they just cut off everything at once, and millions South Vietnamese were massacred, by their own countrymen from the the North no less.