2 F-14 Tomcats vs 5 F-5's (Mig 28)

[LTC8K6]

IIRC, the F-14's track while scan radar system can simultaneously track and fire on 6 different targets, and it passed such tests with the Phoenix near max range.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
IIRC, the F-14's track while scan radar system can simultaneously track and fire on 6 different targets, and it passed such tests with the Phoenix near max range.

I think it was 5, and it only hit 4. The last was contributed to a missle failure IIRC.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'm curious as to why you believe that 5 F-5s can take out 2 F-14s? These planes are from completely different generations. What you're saying is akain to saying that 5 F-4s can take out 2 F-15s or 5 F-16s can take out 2 F-22s.

The last US variant of the F-5, the F-5E, had the following specifications (paraphrased):
-Top speed 1700kmh
-Weight 9558lb empty
-2x 5000lbf afterburning turbojets
-Rate of climb 34,400 ft/min
-Missiles supported: AIM-9J, AIM-7 (AIM-120 only on non-US upgraded versions)
-Ceiling 51800ft

The F-14, by comparision:
-Top speed 2485 kmh
-Weight 42000lb empty
-2x 12000lbf afterburning turbofans
-Rate of climb 45000+ ft/min
-Missiles supported AIM-9M, AIM-7, AIM-54 (AIM-120?) ideal config for this encounter 2xAIM9, 6xAIM7
-Ceiling 50000ft+

The F-14 has a better missile armament, better radar, a better climb rate, and a higher ceiling. I'm not even sure an AIM-9J could keep up with an F-14. Of course, nothing would preclude a F-5E from mounting an AIM-9M, but if you're wanting to keep this to specs...

Add to that the generation better ECM, and I'm pretty confident a pair of F-14s could take 5 F-5Es. The 14s would have to operate as a leader/wingman set though, two rogues wouldn't be able to pull it off.

I think 2 F-15Cs would have an even better showing.

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
I'm curious as to why you believe that 5 F-5s can take out 2 F-14s? These planes are from completely different generations. What you're saying is akain to saying that 5 F-4s can take out 2 F-15s or 5 F-16s can take out 2 F-22s.

The last US variant of the F-5, the F-5E, had the following specifications (paraphrased):
-Top speed 1700kmh
-Weight 9558lb empty
-2x 5000lbf afterburning turbojets
-Rate of climb 34,400 ft/min
-Missiles supported: AIM-9J, AIM-7 (AIM-120 only on non-US upgraded versions)
-Ceiling 51800ft

The F-14, by comparision:
-Top speed 2485 kmh
-Weight 42000lb empty
-2x 12000lbf afterburning turbofans
-Rate of climb 45000+ ft/min
-Missiles supported AIM-9M, AIM-7, AIM-54 (AIM-120?) ideal config for this encounter 2xAIM9, 6xAIM7
-Ceiling 50000ft+

The F-14 has a better missile armament, better radar, a better climb rate, and a higher ceiling. I'm not even sure an AIM-9J could keep up with an F-14. Of course, nothing would preclude a F-5E from mounting an AIM-9M, but if you're wanting to keep this to specs...

Add to that the generation better ECM, and I'm pretty confident a pair of F-14s could take 5 F-5Es. The 14s would have to operate as a leader/wingman set though, two rogues wouldn't be able to pull it off.

I think 2 F-15Cs would have an even better showing.

Isn't the F15 based off of the f14 design?

They look very simular except the shifting wings.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: jtvang125

Originally posted by: Taggart
If the 2 F14's have Phoenix missiles then hell yeah they can take out 5 F5's.

Possibly but IIRC the Phoenix missiles never saw any real combat so you can't be sure how well they'll perform.

Irna had them during the Iran-Iraq War

 

[Aimster]

& if you want to see if it is real or not..

look at the history of the Iran-Iraq War.

Iraqis had lots of french and russian aircraft. They went head to head against F-14s.

I believe the kill ratio was 5:1 in favor of Iran in the war.
(this includes the Saudi F-15s shooting down the F-4s)

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: YoshiSato

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
I'm curious as to why you believe that 5 F-5s can take out 2 F-14s? These planes are from completely different generations. What you're saying is akain to saying that 5 F-4s can take out 2 F-15s or 5 F-16s can take out 2 F-22s.

The last US variant of the F-5, the F-5E, had the following specifications (paraphrased):
-Top speed 1700kmh
-Weight 9558lb empty
-2x 5000lbf afterburning turbojets
-Rate of climb 34,400 ft/min
-Missiles supported: AIM-9J, AIM-7 (AIM-120 only on non-US upgraded versions)
-Ceiling 51800ft

The F-14, by comparision:
-Top speed 2485 kmh
-Weight 42000lb empty
-2x 12000lbf afterburning turbofans
-Rate of climb 45000+ ft/min
-Missiles supported AIM-9M, AIM-7, AIM-54 (AIM-120?) ideal config for this encounter 2xAIM9, 6xAIM7
-Ceiling 50000ft+

The F-14 has a better missile armament, better radar, a better climb rate, and a higher ceiling. I'm not even sure an AIM-9J could keep up with an F-14. Of course, nothing would preclude a F-5E from mounting an AIM-9M, but if you're wanting to keep this to specs...

Add to that the generation better ECM, and I'm pretty confident a pair of F-14s could take 5 F-5Es. The 14s would have to operate as a leader/wingman set though, two rogues wouldn't be able to pull it off.

I think 2 F-15Cs would have an even better showing.

Isn't the F15 based off of the f14 design?

They look very simular except the shifting wings.

No, the F-15 is a unique design. There are very few planes that are based off of existing deisgns, and fewer still that have different designations.

Examples of same (or similar designations)
B-52->B-52D (it really is a different plane, sig. larger bomb bay)
F-111->FB-111 (again, larger)
B-1->B-1B (different roles, similar look but completely different internals)
F-15C->F-15E

Based on, different designations
F-5->YF-17->F/A-18
YB-49->B-2 (stretching it here)
A-12->SR-71
anyone else

If the F-15 was based on another aircraft, it'd be the F-4, but not really.

 

[Jon855]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
Airwolf > *

FTW - I nominate you to be teh AirWolf General

 

[Pacfanweb]

What matters more than the equipment is the pilot.

In the theoretical movie dogfight you mentioned, they were flying against the Libyans.....and I'd put US pilots up against a larger number of Libyans any day.

Read Chuck Yeager's autobiography, and see the chapter where he, his CO and another pilot went to Okinawa to test out a Mig 15 that the NK pilot had defected with.
A group of combat pilots on leave came to Okinawa and were watching the tests...a colonel asked Yeager why weren't they dogfighting the Mig against the F-86 Sabre. Yeager told the colonel that dogfighting wouldn't do anything but show who the better pilot was, not the plane.
The colonel didn't believe him, so Yeager checked him out in the Mig, and they went up to dogfight, with Yeager in the Sabre.
Yeager got right on the colonel's tail and stayed there...the colonel couldn't shake him.

They landed, traded planes, and Yeager once again got right on the colonel's tail and stayed there.

The colonel couldn't believe it, but it was true....the pilot, not the plane, was the difference.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The colonel couldn't believe it, but it was true....the pilot, not the plane, was the difference.

True, but I think we can assume that the US would have the more capable pilots in most any engagement. Especially when flying a modern (by comparison) aircraft. The F-5 would be flown by the equiv of the ANG in most militaries today.

Although in this engagement, I think even Yeager would agree that equipment makes a difference. The -14s higher speed, higher ceiling, faster climb rate, and longer engage distance really means that it is fighting in an environment where the -5 can't fight back for a majority of the time. Not to mention I don't think an F-5 would ever be able to make a gun run if the F-14 was making boom and zoom passes.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Yeah, I think Yeager's scenario is more for when the planes are similar, not with a big difference in performance.

Then again, the Top Gun instructors used to regularly whip the hot shot Navy pilots in the Tomcats while flying old, obsolete A-4's.