2 Friends of Mine Made The News...JFK Racially Profiling??

[sisq0kidd]

Originally posted by: Dacalo
Some of the posts are so asanine and retarded, I don't know whether to LOL or be sad.

The articles outlines two problems: racial profiling and inhumane treatment. Now, I think Ibrahim family would have been more understanding if the custom agents treated them with more respect, rather than treating them like criminals. In other words, if the government is going to do this, at least do it with some decency.

Best post here :thumbsup:

 

[PokerGuy]

Personally, I think it makes sense to check out people that meet a certain profile more closely. What I don't think is right is to treat them without respect and hold them for 6 hours without providing food or water. If they meet a profile that makes them higher risk, then fine, keep them there longer while you ask questions or otherwise check them out.... but don't treat them like cattle or with disrespect.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Oh, goody, 'Ditto-heads' are having their way with the country through paranoia and are trumping society with the fear card.

 

[Jassi]

I sympathize with the family. Also, lets say they were held for 6 hours, what are the chances they ate and had water right before they were taken in to custody? Bottled water is not allowed on airplanes, airlines have a limit on how much water they can carry on a plane SO chances are they were without food or water for more than 6 hours.

As for profiling, my views on that are strong but I will spare people the trouble of reading them. The only thing I'd like to point out is that once you are a Citizen (naturalized), you have EACH AND EVERY right a born citizen has (with the rare exception of some public offices). In the eyes of the law, there is not a lot of difference.

Also, what about the other people held up. I hope they also consider going to the ACLU.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: Dacalo
Some of the posts are so asanine and retarded, I don't know whether to LOL or be sad.

The articles outlines two problems: racial profiling and inhumane treatment. Now, I think Ibrahim family would have been more understanding if the custom agents treated them with more respect, rather than treating them like criminals. In other words, if the government is going to do this, at least do it with some decency.

6 hours dude...

i can go 8 without water/food/bathroom...

6 hours... is like waiting from breakfast to dinner to eat... you know how many ppl fvcking do that?

Thats becuase your fat ass just ate a big mac gordo sized meal. They were going on at least 8 hours, closer to 10 or 12 though.

Yeah, seriously.
They were held for 6 hours after they landed from a long plane journey.
And on the plane they probably had crappy airline food, which does not equate to them being full before having to sit for 6 hours.
Also, I don't know about you (MIKEMIKE), but I tend to drink between meals.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: doze
According to the article were born in Iraq and returning from a vacation to the middle east. If that is not a red flag then don't know what else might be. Iraq is our enemy, and the government suspected that these people were possibly a security risk.

If they don't like the way they have been treated then they can return to Iraq. People not born in the USA need to remember that citizenship is a privilege not a right.

Iraq is not our enemy. We are fighting a war in Iraq (ostensibly) to free the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was our enemy. Some Iraqis are our enemies. Iraq is not our enemy.

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: doze
According to the article were born in Iraq and returning from a vacation to the middle east. If that is not a red flag then don't know what else might be. Iraq is our enemy, and the government suspected that these people were possibly a security risk.

If they don't like the way they have been treated then they can return to Iraq. People not born in the USA need to remember that citizenship is a privilege not a right.

Iraq never attacked the U.S , nor have Iraqis hated the U.S until we invaded their country.

You display your Bush bumper sticker proudly dont u

Iraq is the enemy of the U.S? ROFL

first, they were coming from jordan. second, i'm pretty damn sure that, even if iraq isn't our enemy, there are plenty of people over there that wouldn't mind seeing the US taken down a notch or 3. saddamnistas, followers of zarqawi (who was jordanian and was training in iraq prior to the invasion), maybe followers of sadr, etc. it's a high risk area of the world regardless of your personal views on the war in iraq.

Dubai is in Jordan now? Their inbound flight was (according to one article) from Dubai, not Jordan.
So who knows where they were. But even if they had been on holiday in Jordan, it's not where they flew from (according to one article).

 

[SamurAchzar]

As long as there is one specific group that commits terror and you're not paying special attention to it, you're an idiot and doing a disservice to your duty.

As the saying goes, there are people you can pee on and they would think it's raining. Same with racial profiling - you can ignore reality to a certain extent, after which you automatically become an idiot.

Not that I justify the kind of treatment they received, if of course the allegations are correct. They should be treated as well as any other passenger.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: neonerd

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

I'd have to agree.

El Al (The Airline) does this...they have a scale for security threats. Israelis and Jews are usually classified as the lowest threat, Westerners are usually classified as medium level threats, and Arabs (particularly males) are usually classified as high threat.

El Al happens to be the safest airline in the world....Of course there are other factors that contribute to this, but they must be doing something right.

Agreed, keep up the good work!

 

[Jassi]

I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: mugs
[ We are fighting a war in Iraq (ostensibly) to free the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein.

If you believe that (and I don't think you do), I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I am from India and last week I was picked out at the security check-in for a pat down. And again at the gate, my carry-on was taken aside and checked. I am pretty sure my appearance had something to do with it, so I can presume that I was profiled. It added a total delay of about 45 seconds and the officers were very polite. I didn't mind it at all. Of course, I was a little pissed when they took my Vicks Vaporub from me But out of dozens of flights I have taken in the US over the last 9 years, this is only the second time this has happened to me. The first was a couple of months after 9/11 when the officer said the computer had picked me out randomly Once again, even back then, he was very polite and was asking about good Indian restaurants in the area (maybe even that was a subtle way of confirming my nationality, but he sounded genuine).

However, if I had been yelled at or if the TSA personnel had been otherwise impolite, I think I would have had a different opinion about the whole thing. IMO, racial profiling is a necessary evil. As long as both parties acknowledge that it is unpleasant, but necessary and conduct themselves politely, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Racial profiling does injure the dignity of the passenger and security personnel would do well to keep that in mind while carrying out their duty. That would help passengers realize that it is just a job function and that security officers don't take pleasure in treating you with suspicion.

 

[Jassi]

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Cops are not allowed to randomly take people off the road, put them in jail and run background checks to make sure that the person hasn't and will not commit a crime while driving.

Without going in to my own personal experience in detail, I know for a fact that such an experience can sour an innocent person's view of the persons/ groups on the giving end of the humiliation. If you catch 1 bad guy but piss off hundreds in the process, your problem is not solved and will not be solved at this rate.

Also, as much as people think profiling is not personal, its not true. The fact of the matter is, someone somewhere made the decision to hold these people and chances are that their decision making process is far from the most effective or impersonal method. One of the reasons human intelligence is so hard to gather from certain groups is that the people of that group are routinely targetted. Who the hell wants to help a government (even if it their own) which humiliates their own people on a regular basis?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Dubai is in Jordan now? Their inbound flight was (according to one article) from Dubai, not Jordan.
So who knows where they were. But even if they had been on holiday in Jordan, it's not where they flew from (according to one article).

they had visited jordan and had a layover in dubai. it said that in the article:

after returning from holiday in Jordan

who traveled home via Dubai

a) the passport office is smart enough to figure out where your flight originated from
b) who is to say that terrorists couldn't come through dubai?
c) the statement about jordan was in response to the things about iraq, where they hadn't been but it appeared that certain poster(s) thought they had gone. it was a clarifying statement.

r
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[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jassi

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Cops are not allowed to randomly take people off the road, put them in jail and run background checks to make sure that the person hasn't and will not commit a crime while driving.

Without going in to my own personal experience in detail, I know for a fact that such an experience can sour an innocent person's view of the persons/ groups on the giving end of the humiliation. If you catch 1 bad guy but piss off hundreds in the process, your problem is not solved and will not be solved at this rate.

Also, as much as people think profiling is not personal, its not true. The fact of the matter is, someone somewhere made the decision to hold these people and chances are that their decision making process is far from the most effective or impersonal method. One of the reasons human intelligence is so hard to gather from certain groups is that the people of that group are routinely targetted. Who the hell wants to help a government (even if it their own) which humiliates their own people on a regular basis?

I agree. New terrorism laws are retarded. America has killed thousands of innocent civilian in a war based on a lie and anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

really? i'd like to see some proof of that claim from a reputable source.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

really? i'd like to see some proof of that claim from a reputable source.

GWB "You are either with us or against us"
Why are detainees being held at Guantanomo bay and being tortured?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

really? i'd like to see some proof of that claim from a reputable source.

GWB "You are either with us or against us"
Why are detainees being held at Guantanomo bay and being tortured?

a) the first line doesn't say anything about being jailed.
b) iirc, those guys are taliban from afghanistan and should be classified as POWs. as your post was about iraq, you've still got nothing.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jassi

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Cops are not allowed to randomly take people off the road, put them in jail and run background checks to make sure that the person hasn't and will not commit a crime while driving.

Without going in to my own personal experience in detail, I know for a fact that such an experience can sour an innocent person's view of the persons/ groups on the giving end of the humiliation. If you catch 1 bad guy but piss off hundreds in the process, your problem is not solved and will not be solved at this rate.

Also, as much as people think profiling is not personal, its not true. The fact of the matter is, someone somewhere made the decision to hold these people and chances are that their decision making process is far from the most effective or impersonal method. One of the reasons human intelligence is so hard to gather from certain groups is that the people of that group are routinely targetted. Who the hell wants to help a government (even if it their own) which humiliates their own people on a regular basis?

I agree. New terrorism laws are retarded. America has killed thousands of innocent civilian in a war based on a lie and anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

It would help the debate if I'll note that The Green Bean is a self-proclaimed "Muslim Fundamentalist" from Pakistan, who opposes the Western civilization as well as democracy. Look it up in P&N.

That sure sheds some light on his views.

 

[Josh]

Yea they had just landed from a extremely long flight then held for 6+ hours with no seating/food/water/bathroom. That's a bit rediculous in my opinion. That's treating people like criminals before anything is even known but their nationality.

 

[DaWhim]

racial profiling saves time.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I am from India and last week I was picked out at the security check-in for a pat down. And again at the gate, my carry-on was taken aside and checked. I am pretty sure my appearance had something to do with it, so I can presume that I was profiled. It added a total delay of about 45 seconds and the officers were very polite. I didn't mind it at all. Of course, I was a little pissed when they took my Vicks Vaporub from me But out of dozens of flights I have taken in the US over the last 9 years, this is only the second time this has happened to me. The first was a couple of months after 9/11 when the officer said the computer had picked me out randomly Once again, even back then, he was very polite and was asking about good Indian restaurants in the area (maybe even that was a subtle way of confirming my nationality, but he sounded genuine).

However, if I had been yelled at or if the TSA personnel had been otherwise impolite, I think I would have had a different opinion about the whole thing. IMO, racial profiling is a necessary evil. As long as both parties acknowledge that it is unpleasant, but necessary and conduct themselves politely, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Racial profiling does injure the dignity of the passenger and security personnel would do well to keep that in mind while carrying out their duty. That would help passengers realize that it is just a job function and that security officers don't take pleasure in treating you with suspicion.

My wife missed a flight a few years ago because they had to strip-search my two year old son. They didn't have any male agents around (heaven forbid they have rules that allow the parent to say "yeah, a female can inspect my two year old - he won't mind"), so she had to wait 45 minutes for one of their sorry asses to make himself available. BTW, we're as whitebread as they come.

I think they are profiling more now than they did a few years ago, but they still check people of all races as they should.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
sorry, but stereotypes exist for a reason.

if you dont like them, then stfu, black women are loud, this is true.

more middle easterners blow up planes than white/black ppl... this is true.

white people typically go on murder sprees, this is true.

black ppl typically cant swim, deal drugs, and generally dont make as much money as whites, this is true.

you forgot that indians and jews are both cheap.


apparently an indian friend of mine (who is cheap and gives people honorary brown-man status when they've been cheap) knows an indian guy married to a jewish girl. that will be the cheapest kid ever.

russell peters says otherwise

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Yeah just wait after some white muslim blows sh!t up... About damn time? What a fool :roll: