2 Friends of Mine Made The News...JFK Racially Profiling??

[halik]

Originally posted by: doze
If Iraq isn't our enemy then what are they ... our friend? If they were not our enemy then the military would not be required there now. I'm not saying that all Iraqi people or people of middle Eastern descent are our enemy, but some are. I have no problem with the government detaining people for a few hours to make sure they are not. If there was currently a threat from African terrorists or Asian terrorists instead of middle eastern then it would be black or asian peopl ebeing detained at the airport.

And yes I support Bush because he is the President, but I don't think he made all the right choices.

The combination of your last two posts gives confidence in my judgement that you're dumber than a fvcking brick

 

[senseamp]

If they were mistreated or disrespected, they should sue, and hopefully win, and get the a-holes fired.
You can argue all day whether we should or should not be racially profiling, but there is absolutely no reason why innocent people should be mistreated at the airport that their taxes pay to support.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jassi

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Cops are not allowed to randomly take people off the road, put them in jail and run background checks to make sure that the person hasn't and will not commit a crime while driving.

Without going in to my own personal experience in detail, I know for a fact that such an experience can sour an innocent person's view of the persons/ groups on the giving end of the humiliation. If you catch 1 bad guy but piss off hundreds in the process, your problem is not solved and will not be solved at this rate.

Also, as much as people think profiling is not personal, its not true. The fact of the matter is, someone somewhere made the decision to hold these people and chances are that their decision making process is far from the most effective or impersonal method. One of the reasons human intelligence is so hard to gather from certain groups is that the people of that group are routinely targetted. Who the hell wants to help a government (even if it their own) which humiliates their own people on a regular basis?

I agree. New terrorism laws are retarded. America has killed thousands of innocent civilian in a war based on a lie and anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

It would help the debate if I'll note that The Green Bean is a self-proclaimed "Muslim Fundamentalist" from Pakistan, who opposes the Western civilization as well as democracy. Look it up in P&N.

That sure sheds some light on his views.

I do not "oppose" western civilization or democracy. I have nothing against the west. and I don't have anything to do with them either. I just don't beleive that democracy is the best form of governance. Please stop posting your bias views on Off topic.

 

[LEDominator]

The American Civil Liberties Union and a leading Islamic group on Wednesday accused security officials at New York's JFK airport of racially profiling Muslims

lol, Muslims are people who practice Islam, you could be any color and be a muslim. Its Middle-Easterners who were targeted. I think it makes sense really. Unfortunately the actions of a few tarnish the the image of all.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jassi

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Jassi
I'd like to ask people who support profiling and would like to see more and more of this practice:

Do you belong to a group that is likely to be profiled? Do you know how a person feels when they are treated as the people who were held at JFK?

I'd say to leave the emotion out of it since it only clouds your vision and leads to mistakes.

Look at the statistics- people of middle eastern descent are more likely to bomb a plane than someone from, say, Chinese/Japanese/Korean descent.

It's feel-good nonsense to pretend that this isn't true. Who do you think is more likely to bomb a plane, a 25 year old male from Saudi Arabia, or a 60 year old Japanese woman? Neither one will be 0 or 100%, but the probability will be vastly different.

Thats fine but they didn't have to treat the people like dirt while doing it.

Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Cops are not allowed to randomly take people off the road, put them in jail and run background checks to make sure that the person hasn't and will not commit a crime while driving.

Without going in to my own personal experience in detail, I know for a fact that such an experience can sour an innocent person's view of the persons/ groups on the giving end of the humiliation. If you catch 1 bad guy but piss off hundreds in the process, your problem is not solved and will not be solved at this rate.

Also, as much as people think profiling is not personal, its not true. The fact of the matter is, someone somewhere made the decision to hold these people and chances are that their decision making process is far from the most effective or impersonal method. One of the reasons human intelligence is so hard to gather from certain groups is that the people of that group are routinely targetted. Who the hell wants to help a government (even if it their own) which humiliates their own people on a regular basis?

I agree. New terrorism laws are retarded. America has killed thousands of innocent civilian in a war based on a lie and anybody who does not support america's right to kill them is jailed.

It would help the debate if I'll note that The Green Bean is a self-proclaimed "Muslim Fundamentalist" from Pakistan, who opposes the Western civilization as well as democracy. Look it up in P&N.

That sure sheds some light on his views.

I do not "oppose" western civilization or democracy. I have nothing against the west. and I don't have anything to do with them either. I just don't beleive that democracy is the best form of governance. Please stop posting your bias views on Off topic.

I did not post my views at all. Just helps when people get to know the background of the speaker, just like they usually put some kind of summary of the writer in newspaper columns.

For the record, I'd much rather debate with you than with someone who holds my identical opinions. Makes life interesting, don't you think?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

I do not "oppose" western civilization or democracy. I have nothing against the west. and I don't have anything to do with them either. I just don't beleive that democracy is the best form of governance. Please stop posting your bias views on Off topic.

I'd like to hear your views on terrorist attacks by Islamic fundamentalists on civilian targets. Do you support them?

 

[Al Neri]

if white people flew planes into the twin towers then i'd expect to be racially profiled.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Links to sources?

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Links to sources?

the shoe bomber?
there was a white-Californian that joined al Qaeda and is currently in an American prison. He has been disallowed from speaking Arabic while in prison outside of his room. (Which might be for his own safety)

And this should be in P&N

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Jassi
Its not 100% fine, whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty?

It went to the same place as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. We pay it lip service, but everyone above the age of 8 knows it's not as simple as that in the real world.

 

[chambersc]

I'm emphatically pro racial profiling.

 

[Legendary]

Note to self: Shave before going to JFK.
/American born Indian
//NOT cheap

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: doze

Originally posted by: UNCjigga

Originally posted by: doze
People not born in the USA need to remember that citizenship is a privilege not a right.

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums. Actually, moron, its pretty difficult to lose your citizenship after you're naturalized. Even an act of treason wouldn't strip you of citizenship.

I'd like to remind you that your education isn't a privilege, but a right and required for those under 18.

Not everyone who wants to can become a US citizen, explain to me how this not a privelege? I never said anything about losing citizenship.

edit : forgot that this is ATOT so I must also insult you ... jackass

Well, if you read the article, you'd see that the two sisters pulled for questioning are American citizens. When I read your post I thought you were referring to them, hence I had to speak out against the idiocy in your notion that naturalized citizens do not have the same rights as citizens born here. AFAIK, the only thing we can't do is become President of the US.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: zerocool1

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Links to sources?

the shoe bomber?
there was a white-Californian that joined al Qaeda and is currently in an American prison. He has been disallowed from speaking Arabic while in prison outside of his room. (Which might be for his own safety)

Have you seen that dumbass? He could pass for middle eastern. At least to an American. Probably not to an actual Arab, but he definitely could be mistaken for a middle easterner, particularly since he speaks Arabic.
And racial profiling had nothing to do with his case....he got busted by passengers while trying to light off his shoe bomb.

 

[sisq0kidd]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
if white people flew planes into the twin towers then i'd expect to be racially profiled.

They blew up a hospital in Oklahoma. I didn't see them get racially profiled.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: doze
Iraq is our enemy,

Iraq is only our enemy because WE attacked THEM. Let's not confuse the issue here.

As far as I know, once granted citizenship you are entitled to all rights given a citizen until after your citizenship is revoked, which can only be done under a few circumstances. In other words, their rights AS citizens are absolute UNLESS we take away their citizenship first.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: doze
If Iraq isn't our enemy then what are they ... our friend? If they were not our enemy then the military would not be required there now. I'm not saying that all Iraqi people or people of middle Eastern descent are our enemy, but some are. I have no problem with the government detaining people for a few hours to make sure they are not. If there was currently a threat from African terrorists or Asian terrorists instead of middle eastern then it would be black or asian peopl ebeing detained at the airport.

And yes I support Bush because he is the President, but I don't think he made all the right choices.

They are (or at least were) a sovereign nation, completely beyond the right of control by the US. The military is there because GWB ordered them to go there.

 

[Jeff7]

Implement measures like this, and terrorists will adapt. It's just like computer virus writers - the AV companies issue new updates to counter new threats, so the virus writers find other security holes to exploit. Humans are creatures of habit, and patterns. Watch a person or group long enough, and you can learn those patterns, and find weaknesses. And in keeping with the virus writer analogy, the only sure way to avoid getting a virus is to isolate your computer from the world - no Internet, no sneakernet file sharing, no network, nothing. Same way with the real world. If we want no terrorists at all, we would need to seal our borders completely. No international travel, trade, nothing. And I just don't see that happening.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
if white people flew planes into the twin towers then i'd expect to be racially profiled.

They blew up a hospital in Oklahoma. I didn't see them get racially profiled.

Individuals. Not members of a worldwide terrorist group. Big difference.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: Dacalo
Some of the posts are so asanine and retarded, I don't know whether to LOL or be sad.

The articles outlines two problems: racial profiling and inhumane treatment. Now, I think Ibrahim family would have been more understanding if the custom agents treated them with more respect, rather than treating them like criminals. In other words, if the government is going to do this, at least do it with some decency.

6 hours dude...

i can go 8 without water/food/bathroom...

6 hours... is like waiting from breakfast to dinner to eat... you know how many ppl fvcking do that?

Doesn't matter, there was no evidence that they were criminal. I have no problem holding a higher percentage of a certain race for questioing if there ius truly a higher precentage of the crimes being investigated committed by that race. However, they should have been given all amenities they desired while being held; that includes food, water, bathroom, and something nice to read even.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: zerocool1

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Links to sources?

the shoe bomber?
there was a white-Californian that joined al Qaeda and is currently in an American prison. He has been disallowed from speaking Arabic while in prison outside of his room. (Which might be for his own safety)

Have you seen that dumbass? He could pass for middle eastern. At least to an American. Probably not to an actual Arab, but he definitely could be mistaken for a middle easterner, particularly since he speaks Arabic.
And racial profiling had nothing to do with his case....he got busted by passengers while trying to light off his shoe bomb.

Hell, even Moussaoui - he looks like any other black guy. I honestly can't remember specifics off the top of my head, but I believe there was a black truck driver from Ohio who was recuited by Al Qaeda to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, and just recently there was a group of ~4 black guys in their early 20s who were busted for being part of a terrorist plot. I recall hearing a while back that they were actively recruiting South Africans, because South African passports don't attract much attention.

Every once in a while a story hits the news about a little old lady being searched by the TSA, and how it's ridiculous because no little old lady is going to be part of a terrorist plot. If I was with Al Qaeda I'd be looking for disgruntled little old ladies to smuggle weapons onto planes - who's going to suspect the little old lady?

 

[sisq0kidd]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
if white people flew planes into the twin towers then i'd expect to be racially profiled.

They blew up a hospital in Oklahoma. I didn't see them get racially profiled.

Individuals. Not members of a worldwide terrorist group. Big difference.

Did you not get what we were talking about? Or did you say that without reading the rest of the thread and at the same time not understanding the context in which me and Don Rodriguez were talking about?

But to reply to your retarded post, how are the people in the article part of a worldwide terrorist group?

We are talking about inviduals being detained by racial profiling. How is that any different?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: mugs
Every once in a while a story hits the news about a little old lady being searched by the TSA, and how it's ridiculous because no little old lady is going to be part of a terrorist plot. If I was with Al Qaeda I'd be looking for disgruntled little old ladies to smuggle weapons onto planes - who's going to suspect the little old lady?

There are sometimes stories in the news about "little old ladies" who will take in a homeless guy, then get multiple high-coverage life insurance policies for him, and then kill him.
There are crazy old people out there willing to kill.

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
if white people flew planes into the twin towers then i'd expect to be racially profiled.

They blew up a hospital in Oklahoma. I didn't see them get racially profiled.

Individuals. Not members of a worldwide terrorist group. Big difference.

Ok, so it's a worldwide terrorist group of Mideastern Islamic extremists, and people of that race and creed are being profiled. But again, it is not all Islamic people who are violent. I'm sure that the vast majority of them are like us - they just want to live their lives peacefully, without worrying about being killed by some other person from some other country. It's the crazy ones who give the rest a bad name. Take what happened in Columbine, for instance: suddenly, shy, quiet, unsociable teenage guys who happen to like wearing black were all potential murderers weilding enough guns to make Neo of The Matrix duck for cover.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

I do not "oppose" western civilization or democracy. I have nothing against the west. and I don't have anything to do with them either. I just don't beleive that democracy is the best form of governance. Please stop posting your bias views on Off topic.

I'd like to hear your views on terrorist attacks by Islamic fundamentalists on civilian targets. Do you support them?

No. They are illegal both in Islam and the current American government. Islam teaches loyalty towards the nation of residence and the country you are visiting. When/If, I visit America, I will abide by everyone american law. Thats my religion.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
What do I feel? About damn time. Sorry.

Yeah, racial profiling will prevent terrorist attacks - because it's not like the terrorists realize we're looking for arabs. Have you not noticed that there have been several foiled terrorism attempts by non-Arabs since 9/11?

Several foiled terrorism attempts by means of racial profiling? Which incidents? Links?