2 GB Windows barrier

fzkl

Member
Nov 14, 2004
179
0
0
Hi all,

I have an nForce 4 Intel x16 motherboard with a 3 gigs prescott. I have 2 memory sticks each of 2 GB. When I power up, the bios detects 4 GB but it shows up as 2 GB in Windows XP. I have tried the /PAE and the /3GB parameters in boot.ini but that did not help. I tried with just 1 memory stick in the slot and this time the bios and the OS showed 2 GB. So its not a problem with the motherboard being able to detect only a gig of the ram from each of the sticks.

I am not able to find any BIUS option that looks familiar which will help. Also, the exact amount of memory is 2 GB. So it is not the windows limitation thingy wherein part of memory doesnt show up in the OS as it is used for shadowing and such.

Thanks for any suggestions that you can provide.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
sounds like a windows limitation to me - do you really need 4 gig tho?? that's alot!
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,697
29
91
in my bios there are hidden options. you get into the bios with regular "del" key, then once you are in it you hit "ctrl-f1" to get into more advance options like the agp aperture settings, ram command rate, etc. in there i did see something called "MEM Remap (4G RAM Support)" don't know if this helps but it might....
 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0
Originally posted by: bob4432
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
win xp 64 bit

this is not the answer, many peeps run 4GB on 32bit xp (well at lest ~3.25GB)


Yes it is the answer -if you want to run 4GB (or more) prob free on XP.
First you say "many people run 4GB", then you amend it to say 3.25 GB
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

This question has been hashed out many times before in GH (about once every 2 weeks)
***Yaaaaawnnnn***

 

jough

Member
Feb 5, 2006
51
0
0
Yes, there is an upper memory limit in XP, but it's still higher than 2Gb.

fzkl, what happens when you put one stick only in your machine? Does it still see the same 2Gb? What about just the other stick then?

And have you run memtest86 to make sure the RAM is working properly?

Does the POST memory test show the full 4Gb?

Are the two sticks of memory a matched pair, or are they different brands or types?
 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
1,301
0
0
Knoppix it too, see what it detects for system RAM.

Jough's advice is sound, get more info to help explain the problem. You are running XP Pro right?

bob is right too, getting it to detect 4GB of RAM (regardless what is practical/usable) is possible in 32bit XP. Switching to 64bit isn't helpful at this time.

Oh, and the /PAE and /3G tricks shouldn't be necessary while trying to get it to display the proper amount. They can be removed for testing.

Do you have registered DIMMS?
 

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
6
81
www.chicagopipeband.com
A 32-bit system gives you 2^32 (4GB) of total address space. If you put in 4GB of RAM, some of it will be reserved for hardware address space, such as PC & PCI-E subsystems, AGP aperture, and a shadow copy of video RAM.

This is why you need 64-bit hardware and a 64 bit OS, such as "win xp 64 bit."

fzkl, what are your system's hardware specs? You might be able to regain some of that lost RAM by lowering your AGP aperture. If you have SLI video cards, take one out.
 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
1,301
0
0
I'm not going to argue "application available memory space" versus "addressable system memory". This is completely unhelpful to the topic of why he cannot see the proper amount of RAM.
 

fzkl

Member
Nov 14, 2004
179
0
0
They are not registered DIMMs. 2 sticks of 2 GB each. Irrespective of whether I have one or both the sticks, the ram shown inside the OS is always 2 GB. Exactly 2 GB. I have seen some systems previously (not around me now) with around 3.2 shown in windows when i have 4 gb in the slots. However they were 4 sticks of 1 Gig each. THe bios however reports the right amount of memory. If I have 1 stick it shows 2 gigs and if i have both the sticks it shows 4 gigs. The mem sticks are of exactly the same specs. I am running a 7800 GT video card. No other peripheral cards.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,791
1,252
136
Do a search in the forum i'm sure this has been covered many times before
 

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
6
81
www.chicagopipeband.com
The BIOS tells you what the memory DIMMs report themselves as, not how much will be available to the OS. As I said you can try a video card with less RAM, lower the AGP Aperture, and fiddle with other RAM size-related settings in BIOS (Memory Hole location, etc.) to gain some of it back.

Makaveli is right, do a search and you'll see that what I said in my previous post still applies: Text, Text, Text.
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
1
0
Negatory, half of you seem confused. The OP is seeing only 2GB out of 4GB once in windows. This is not the normal issue when using 4GB of RAM in XP32 and only 3GB-3.5GB is available due to PCI and other device remaps.

First off, check your manual and make sure that your board is compatable with 2GB sticks.

Your PAE status is in the registry at: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PhysicalAddressExtension

Edit: btw, are you sure you used the correct two slots? It could be the board will not run two sticks in single channel correctly and you put one stick in the wrong slot.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
You gotta test it with another program to see if all 4gb is visible. Try memtest & knoppix like others have said.
 

narcotic

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2004
1,236
0
0
When windows vista 64bit will be out it'll support up to a 128GB of RAM. That could do...
 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
1,301
0
0
Originally posted by: aka1nas
Negatory, half of you seem confused. The OP is seeing only 2GB out of 4GB once in windows. This is not the normal issue when using 4GB of RAM in XP32 and only 3GB-3.5GB is available due to PCI and other device remaps.

First off, check your manual and make sure that your board is compatable with 2GB sticks.

Your PAE status is in the registry at: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PhysicalAddressExtension

Edit: btw, are you sure you used the correct two slots? It could be the board will not run two sticks in single channel correctly and you put one stick in the wrong slot.

I still agree, this isn't normal behavior for windows + 4GB combinations. There is something worth tracking here.

PAE shouldn't effect anything here, it's a switch/trick to allow more than 4GB on a 32bit system. I would check to see if your board supports 2GB sticks, as well as if your board allows greater than 2GB without using Registered DIMMS. What Motherboard is this on?

That info and Knoppix memsize info would be helpful.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,697
29
91
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
Originally posted by: bob4432
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
win xp 64 bit

this is not the answer, many peeps run 4GB on 32bit xp (well at lest ~3.25GB)


Yes it is the answer -if you want to run 4GB (or more) prob free on XP.
First you say "many people run 4GB", then you amend it to say 3.25 GB
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

This question has been hashed out many times before in GH (about once every 2 weeks)
***Yaaaaawnnnn***

bozo - like others have stated after me, addressable memory....xp64 is still not the answer a$$
 

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0
Originally posted by: bob4432


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bozo - like others have stated after me, addressable memory....xp64 is still not the answer a$$
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont care what some of the others say, or what you say...... so now after saying 4GB is usually only 3.25, you now offer "4 GB addressable memory" as your next attempt at logical debate.
Its just another big YAAAAWWWNNNN!!!
Same stupid arguments over and over and over again.

http://www.desktoppipeline.com/162101603 (chart)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/64bit/russel_exploringx64.mspx

Mini White Paper
HP Workstations
http://tinyurl.com/nafq6


RAM Allocation with Microsoft Windows XP Professional (32 & 64-bit)
Increasing workstation performance and RAM affordability have enabled more and more users to push the limits of 32-bit computing. This paper discusses those limits with respect to RAM allocation when using Microsoft Windows XP Professional on x86-based computers. Specifically, the 32-bit version of XP Professional limits available RAM to noticeably less than 4 GB while Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition eliminates this barrier.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional, designed as a 32-bit OS, supports an address range of up to 4 GB for virtual memory addresses and up to 4 GB for physical memory addresses. Because the physical memory addresses are sub-divided to manage both the computer?s PCI memory address range (also known as MMIO) and RAM, the amount of available RAM is always less than 4 GB.

The PCI memory addresses starting down from 4 GB are used for things like the BIOS, IO cards, networking, PCI hubs, bus bridges, PCI-Express, and video/graphics cards. The BIOS takes up about 512 KB starting from the very top address. Then each of the other items mentioned are allocated address ranges below the BIOS range. The largest block of addresses is allocated for today?s high performance graphics cards which need addresses for at least the amount of memory on the graphics card. The net result is that a high performance x86-based computer may allocate 512 MB to more than 1 GB for the PCI memory address range before any RAM (physical user memory) addresses are allocated.

RAM starts from address 0. The BIOS allocates RAM from 0 up to the bottom of the PCI memory addresses mentioned above, typically limiting available RAM to between 3 GB and 3.4 GB.1

From a user?s perspective the graphics card selected and amount of installed RAM have the most impact on available RAM. A high end graphics card with 256 MB of memory may limit addressable RAM to about 3 GB while cards with less memory may enable higher limits. Industry memory architectures impact the opportunity to install just the amount of RAM that can be made available. Today?s high performance chipsets use dual memory channels which require matched pairs of DIMMs for the best performance. On a 4 DIMM slot computer, the 3 to 4 GB capacity choices fall to 3 GB or 4 GB (two 1 GB DIMMs + two 512 MB DIMMs or four 1 GB DIMMs).

Windows XP Professional x64 Edition uses 64-bit addressing enabling virtually the entire amount of installed RAM to be made available on computers that have large address infrastructures (where the entire system has more than 4 GB addressing capabilities via the processor, chipset, physical memory capacity, etc). The HP xw4300, xw6200, xw8200 and xw9300 Workstations have the required infrastructures and even the PCI memory address range is recovered by re-mapping it above the top of physical memory.

In contrast, some 64-bit capable systems use 32-bit chipsets, limiting physical memory addressing to the 4 GB limit even though Windows XP Professional x64 Edition is installed. The HP xw4200 is such a system (like all systems based on the Intel 925 Express chipset) and it continues to typically allocate between 3 and 3.4 GB of RAM. The benefit is that the system is able to take advantage of larger virtual memory and process sizes.2 3

Conclusion: If you are planning to use Windows XP x64 Edition on your HP xw4300, xw6200, xw8200 or xw9300 64-bit enabled workstation, install as much RAM as you would like up to the physical limit of each workstation.
========

umm, I could also get into DIMM DRAM densities as another limiting factor (chipset/mobo), but hey.......
YAAAWWWWNN!!








 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
1,301
0
0
sm8000, you're confusing the issue. Everything you guys quote is correct, but that's not the problem he's seeing. That Intel documentation says exactly what we have been saying. While it is possible to install 4GB of memory, it isn't all usable. This isn't anything new, and it isn't a mystery. In fact, Windows will only grant up to 3GB of memory to applications with the use of the /3GB switch (reserving all remaining usable system memory for OS use). Regardless of all of this, 32bit Windows should report 4GB of physical memory installed. If it doesn't, but you have it installed, something is wrong. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE.

Will this solve his problem if he actually needs 4GB of application usable memory? No. I don't pretend that it will.
 

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
6
81
www.chicagopipeband.com
Um, no. 32-bit Windows shouldn't and won't report 4GB installed, at least not that I've ever seen or heard. I'd be surprised if it does. bob4432 doesn't seem to have any answers. I do remember seeing one thread here recently where somebody had 2GB of RAM installed but Win2k Pro was only reporting 1GB; after running CCleaner Windows showed 2GB but in any case 32-bit Windows is not going to show you RAM that's there but it can't touch - as far as Windows is concerned it's not there. It's been relegated to low-level sub-OS hardware addressing.
 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
1,301
0
0
I have a Windows XP Pro system here with 4GB of memory installed. The Task Manager will report all physical memory the BIOS reports to it (after onboard graphics, PCI register space, etc). For this system, that's about 3.8GB of physical memory reporting. Application space is held to 2GB, and the remaining is devoted to system/kernel usage. If you aren't seeing greater than 2GB in windows, something is wrong. Either you have hardware that isn't allowed (unregistered DIMMs, non-ECC), or your BIOS is restricting the memory size. This is what I'm here to help him figure out.
 

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
6
81
www.chicagopipeband.com
I am fully aware of everything you've said in both your last two posts, and have been for a long time. I agree 2GB is excessive, but he's not the first. Besides, we don't have a whole lot of info on his system specs.

Incidentally, you contradicted yourself (and confirmed my last post) with your first sentence
 
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