$200 for 3D content creation card

[shokan]

Can someone point me to a card in the $200 range that has good bang for the buck for 3D work (ie. 3DS Max, XSI, modo etc.)?
I don't play games.
Thanks.

 

[akhilles]

Ok, no games. You don't need a gaming card. Look into Quadro FX:

http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_family.html

They're expensive at retail. They're cheap on ebay. Which one to pick out depends on your budget.

 

[jesterb84]

Just a quick question, but can someone tell me the difference between a Quadro/FireGL card and a regular GeForce/Radeon card? From what I know, they all use the same GPUs and I was reading somewhere on a CG forum that people were recommending a regular 3780 instead of the FireGL equivalent. Unless there is some tangible benefit, wouldn't getting something like a 4850 be much more beneficial due to generally higher availability and lower-pricing?

 

[Seggybop]

Originally posted by: shokan
Can someone point me to a card in the $200 range that has good bang for the buck for 3D work (ie. 3DS Max, XSI, modo etc.)?
I don't play games.
Thanks.

Radeon 3870 softmodded to FireGL v7700
http://forums.guru3d.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: jesterb84
Just a quick question, but can someone tell me the difference between a Quadro/FireGL card and a regular GeForce/Radeon card? From what I know, they all use the same GPUs and I was reading somewhere on a CG forum that people were recommending a regular 3780 instead of the FireGL equivalent. Unless there is some tangible benefit, wouldn't getting something like a 4850 be much more beneficial due to generally higher availability and lower-pricing?

They will often use the exact same hardware, however there will be some that come with a lot more memory (the 2GB FireGL V8650 for example) that would otherwise be useless for gaming. What you're really paying for is the drivers...but you obviously can't use the drivers on the regular cards unless you mod them to show up as their professional twin, if that's even possible. Thus far we've largely been lucky enough to have at least one card from every generation that has been modable. If we're even luckier it'll only need a softmod.

 

[shokan]

jester: I found this article about what you asked. The article explanantion should also, I would think, apply generally to QuadroFX for workstations (vs gaming rig).

http://www.aecmag.com/index.ph...=view&id=190&Itemid=34

To anyone: would an ATI FireGL V3600 with 256Mb be better than an ATI 4850 with 512Mb for 3D content-creation? The Mb difference throws me off. The two cards are about the same $$. I definitely won't be gaming.

Also, what's "softmod" and "mod"?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

When you mod a gaming card into a professional card, you're basically changing its identity so that it can work with the drivers that make and awesome workstation card. A hard mod would be one where you have to physically alter the card, likely with soldering involved. A soft mod would be one where you can use software to change it such as through a BIOS flash. Soft mods are generally preferred as they're often a lot easier to perform as well as much easier to reverse should you choose to.

 

[shokan]

Thanks.
Any thoughts about the two cards above?

 

[Seggybop]

Between Radeon HD 3870 for $130 and FireGL V7700 for $1000 the only difference is whether the Radeon or FireGL drivers run. Under the Radeon drivers, performance in OpenGL modeling software is seriously crippled. This means that even though a 4850 with RV770 GPU is theoretically far superior to the 3870/V7700 with RV670 GPU, the card running the FireGL drivers will work much better.

For ATI cards up to the 3k series so far it has been possible to easily alter the FireGL driver to run on a Radeon-type card for full performance (soft mod). It's likely that this will also be possible for the 4k series, but there aren't any FireGL cards based on RV770 yet so there isn't any driver to modify. There is no reason to get an actual workstation-type card unless you work with gigantic models and need >1GB of video memory.

 

[shokan]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite follow you. You say that the Radeon drivers would not be good for 3D work that I should go with the FireGL with less memory?

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: shokan
I'm sorry, I didn't quite follow you. You say that the Radeon drivers would not be good for 3D work that I should go with the FireGL with less memory?

Hes saying buying a gaming card and modding it to a FireGL is the best bang for buck solution...

At the moment the best card to do that would be a 3870 modded --> V7700

 

[lopri]

Yeah. Same card with different BIOS/drivers will behave differently. I hope someday this will change with the evolving nature of GPUs toward general processing, but for now they are in different league of their own. A kick ass gaming card will pale in comparison to tiny workstation card in 3D modeling apps. It's a huge profit market for both AMD and NV.

 

[jesterb84]

Originally posted by: shokan
I'm sorry, I didn't quite follow you. You say that the Radeon drivers would not be good for 3D work that I should go with the FireGL with less memory?

Shokan, thanks for the article. I think it mainly confirms bunnyfubbles explanation that the main difference are the drivers (multi-threaded, OpenGL-optimized, etc.).

I believe what Seggybop meant in her above post was that a regular card (i.e. 3870, 4850, etc.) that is modded to run on FireGL drivers will always beat the FireGL equivalent in terms of cost (and speed, if comparing among different generations). The only time a true FireGL card is preferable is when you cannot get the FireGL drivers to run on the regular equivalent.

Radeon 3870 (Rad. drivers) < FireGL V7700
Radeon 3870 (FGL drivers) > FireGL V7700

Applying this theory to the 2 cards pointed above, the Radeon 4850 will be far superior to the FireGL V3600 only if you can mod the 4850 to run on FireGL drivers. Otherwise, the lack of optimization in the standard Radeon driver should make the FireGL V3600 a stronger card with respect to 3D work assuming driver optimizations are in place.

 

[shokan]

Jester, yes, I see. Since I won't be doing animation, just hi-res large 3D stills, maybe a V3600 would be best. Sound right?

About modding a Radeon card for FireGL drivers... that'd be great, but I don't know diddly about that stuff and I'd hate to run into problems about not getting it right or having other weirdness happen that I don't know how to fix or tweak.

 

[sgrinavi]

I do 3dsMAX and AutoCAD work 60 hours a week.

There's a many cards under 200 available, I've used a couple of them

FireGL V3600
Quadro4 NVS290
Quadro FX1300

As well as several much more expensive cards....

None of them have performed any better than my 3870 under OpenGL even without a soft-mod. You can pick one up for $125 AR

 

[shokan]

Thanks for the info.

I've just been informed however in the Luxology forum that ATI cards are red-flagged for use with modo and that nVidia should be my choice. They're saying 8800 would be fine and also cheap. I'm wondering about the different flavors: GT, GTS, Alpha Dog, extreme... can't remember all of them. What's the difference, other than price, for use with a 3D app do you think?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

what motherboard? there should be no issues...

 

[jesterb84]

Well there is a feature comparison chart for the 8800-series here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...Units#GeForce_8_series

Probably as you have guessed, the main difference is price/performance. I don't know what else to make from the comparison other than they all support OpenGL 2.0+

 

[lopri]

I stand corrected. Apparently when the new generation cards debut and double the performance and add a lot of features (plus the ever-evolving nature of programmable GPU), there look to be cases where a desktop video card can outperform workstation cards of yesteryear. From this interview (linked first by BFG in R700 thread)

To put it in numbers, can we say that the rendering capability of the 4800-series of cards is better than the last generation of the FireGL cards?

R: It is better compared to the last generation high-end FireGL. There are some aspects of FireGL, let's say Y-frame rendering, and some of the things that the CAD guys use - the last gen fireGL might be a little faster than the Radeon 4850. But generally the 4800 would be faster.

Granted it's not clear on driver optimization point of view (for workstation apps) or other desktop optimization for workstation purposes (such as multi-monitor support or available resolutions, etc.).

I assume the same goes true on NV's cards. Say, a 8800 GT *might* be faster than $800 Quadro 3500 (7900 GT).

Edit: Ooops, here is the link.

http://www.techtree.com/India/...AMD/551-90984-579.html

 

[shokan]

Very interesting. Thanks for that heads-up.