2007 camry lower build quality

[OS]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: clickynext
You know, I actually noticed that because I was in a toyota showroom the other day sitting in the new Camry, and the plastic and fit felt a little cheap. Not bad, but when the car costs that much, I've come to expect a bit more...

The problem is that people are demanding things like airbags, ABS, traction control, variable valve timing, etc. There is more computer power in today's Camry than there was in the Apollo moon rocket. Despite the cost of pomputing power making a rapid decline, it still costs money and in order to keep the selling price of the car reasonable, the extra cost has to come out of somewhere.

If people would be happy with a 4-speed automatic, an engine without fancy variable valve timing, a basic radio, non-electroluminescent guages, manual climate control, no in-car navigation, then cars would get sturdier again.

ZV

additional computing power/hardware in itself has minimal impact on cost, it's the embedded software/development to support additional features that costs money.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

Do you know this for a fact or are you just talking out of your ass?



I thought some Camry's were built in Japan and some in the US.

I'm not entirely sure if any Japanese built Camrys are imported to the US. If there are, it isn't very many. Georgetown produces a ridiculous number of them.

My mom got the only made in japan camry on the lot when she bought hers in 2004.
There are still some, albiet rare.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Did they review a beat up press model, a flawed preproduction model or buy a production Camry to test?

yes.

 

[spidey07]

I believe the current analysis is that as their cars are becoming more complicated with more models their quality is going to decrease. This is evidenced by their rankings in recent years and especially the recalls and espeically with the new camry.

Back when they only had a few models it was easy to focus quality control/process on those models. More difficult now with more complex models and number of models.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: clickynext
You know, I actually noticed that because I was in a toyota showroom the other day sitting in the new Camry, and the plastic and fit felt a little cheap. Not bad, but when the car costs that much, I've come to expect a bit more...

The problem is that people are demanding things like airbags, ABS, traction control, variable valve timing, etc. There is more computer power in today's Camry than there was in the Apollo moon rocket. Despite the cost of pomputing power making a rapid decline, it still costs money and in order to keep the selling price of the car reasonable, the extra cost has to come out of somewhere.

If people would be happy with a 4-speed automatic, an engine without fancy variable valve timing, a basic radio, non-electroluminescent guages, manual climate control, no in-car navigation, then cars would get sturdier again.

ZV

additional computing power/hardware in itself has minimal impact on cost, it's the embedded software/development to support additional features that costs money.

And if the additional hardware requires the software then it's reasonable to include the cost of the software in the cost of the hardware as I did.

ZV

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: clickynext
You know, I actually noticed that because I was in a toyota showroom the other day sitting in the new Camry, and the plastic and fit felt a little cheap. Not bad, but when the car costs that much, I've come to expect a bit more...

The problem is that people are demanding things like airbags, ABS, traction control, variable valve timing, etc. There is more computer power in today's Camry than there was in the Apollo moon rocket. Despite the cost of pomputing power making a rapid decline, it still costs money and in order to keep the selling price of the car reasonable, the extra cost has to come out of somewhere.

If people would be happy with a 4-speed automatic, an engine without fancy variable valve timing, a basic radio, non-electroluminescent guages, manual climate control, no in-car navigation, then cars would get sturdier again.

ZV

additional computing power/hardware in itself has minimal impact on cost, it's the embedded software/development to support additional features that costs money.

And if the additional hardware requires the software then it's reasonable to include the cost of the software in the cost of the hardware as I did.

ZV

IMO some things are left best as purely mechanical systems. throttle, for example. i HATE fly-by-wire gas pedals because they are either overly sensitive (when you first press on the pedal) or not sensitive enough (flooring it for some fun). the passat i drove for a while had a cable throttle.. my god, it was wonderful

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: clickynext
You know, I actually noticed that because I was in a toyota showroom the other day sitting in the new Camry, and the plastic and fit felt a little cheap. Not bad, but when the car costs that much, I've come to expect a bit more...

The problem is that people are demanding things like airbags, ABS, traction control, variable valve timing, etc. There is more computer power in today's Camry than there was in the Apollo moon rocket. Despite the cost of pomputing power making a rapid decline, it still costs money and in order to keep the selling price of the car reasonable, the extra cost has to come out of somewhere.

If people would be happy with a 4-speed automatic, an engine without fancy variable valve timing, a basic radio, non-electroluminescent guages, manual climate control, no in-car navigation, then cars would get sturdier again.

ZV

additional computing power/hardware in itself has minimal impact on cost, it's the embedded software/development to support additional features that costs money.

And if the additional hardware requires the software then it's reasonable to include the cost of the software in the cost of the hardware as I did.

ZV

i'm just saying your original post is worded somewhat misleading since it seems to imply that the additional computational power is the primary factor driving additional cost when it is not.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: clickynext
You know, I actually noticed that because I was in a toyota showroom the other day sitting in the new Camry, and the plastic and fit felt a little cheap. Not bad, but when the car costs that much, I've come to expect a bit more...

The problem is that people are demanding things like airbags, ABS, traction control, variable valve timing, etc. There is more computer power in today's Camry than there was in the Apollo moon rocket. Despite the cost of pomputing power making a rapid decline, it still costs money and in order to keep the selling price of the car reasonable, the extra cost has to come out of somewhere.

If people would be happy with a 4-speed automatic, an engine without fancy variable valve timing, a basic radio, non-electroluminescent guages, manual climate control, no in-car navigation, then cars would get sturdier again.

ZV

additional computing power/hardware in itself has minimal impact on cost, it's the embedded software/development to support additional features that costs money.

And if the additional hardware requires the software then it's reasonable to include the cost of the software in the cost of the hardware as I did.

ZV

IMO some things are left best as purely mechanical systems. throttle, for example. i HATE fly-by-wire gas pedals because they are either overly sensitive (when you first press on the pedal) or not sensitive enough (flooring it for some fun). the passat i drove for a while had a cable throttle.. my god, it was wonderful

not that i care for it either, but some of the reason they add in DBW is it makes cruise control and traction control easier and cheaper to integrate.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

Do you know this for a fact or are you just talking out of your ass?



I thought some Camry's were built in Japan and some in the US.

I'm not entirely sure if any Japanese built Camrys are imported to the US. If there are, it isn't very many. Georgetown produces a ridiculous number of them.

My mom got the only made in japan camry on the lot when she bought hers in 2004.
There are still some, albiet rare.

98 Camry here built in Japan. I guess fewer Camrys are builti n Japan now?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
98 Camry here built in Japan. I guess fewer Camrys are builti n Japan now?

Almost all (if not all) camrys are produced/assembled at the georgetown plant. everything.

 

[Eli]

Wow, that's pretty bad.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DLeRium
98 Camry here built in Japan. I guess fewer Camrys are builti n Japan now?

Almost all (if not all) camrys are produced/assembled at the georgetown plant. everything.

I can't see how it makes a difference anyways.
They are all built by machines either way.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I can't see how it makes a difference anyways.
They are all built by machines either way.

You'd be surprised how much manual labor there is. there's a ton that can't be done by a machine. I took the tour a while ago. neat facility.

I think most of the actual assembly is by man.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I can't see how it makes a difference anyways.
They are all built by machines either way.

You'd be surprised how much manual labor there is. there's a ton that can't be done by a machine. I took the tour a while ago. neat facility.

I think most of the actual assembly is by man.

Yeah, lol.. machines only do a small fraction of the assembly in the scheme of things.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

Do you know this for a fact or are you just talking out of your ass?



I thought some Camry's were built in Japan and some in the US.

even the camry hybrid is us built now
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/manufacturing/2005/05/17-1-kentucky-hybrid.html
By 2006, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build 1.66 million cars and trucks, 1.44 million engines, and 600,000 automatic transmissions in North America. The company's direct investment is nearly $16.6 billion, with annual purchasing of parts, materials, goods and services from North American suppliers totaling nearly $25 billion. Toyota's North American-produced vehicles include the Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Sienna, Solara, Sequoia, Tacoma, Tundra, and the Lexus
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/manufacturing/2006/03/13-1-camry.html
With this additional capacity and other expansions underway, Toyota will have North American annual production capacity of about 2 million cars and trucks by 2008.RX330.

stuff like the sienna are even designed/engineered in the us. don't think they have sienna in japan right? fj cruiser?

 

[0roo0roo]

found a bit more on it.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB...m5Ewbo9E_20060610.html?mod=tff_article
Yet, by a crucial measure, the Sienna is far more American than the Mustang. Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada. Ford Motor Co. buys the rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components.
[Home and Away]

There's more than a little irony in this, considering Ford has launched a campaign to regain its footing with an appeal to patriotism (catchphrase: "Red, White & Bold"). "Americans really do want to buy American brands," asserted Ford Executive Vice President Mark Fields in a recent speech. "We will compete vigorously to be America's car company."

As the Mustang shows, though, it's no longer easy to define what is American. For 20 years now, the dynamic car makers of Asia -- led by Toyota, Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. -- have been pouring money into North America, investing in plants, suppliers and dealerships as well as design, testing and research centers. Their factories used to be derided as "transplants," foreign-owned plants just knocking together imported parts. Today, the Asian car makers are a fully functioning industry, big and powerful enough to challenge Detroit's claim to the heart of U.S. car manufacturing.....

 

[PowerEngineer]

Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.

Amen.

My 1996 LE was pretty spartan but very solid and reliable (until it was totaled...that's another story). I also think they were (and still are) the best looking Camrys. For the record, mine was assembled in Georgetown.

Early 2007 Camry hybrids are still being built in Japan, but production will eventually be moved to Georgetown too. I bought a hybrid at the end of July from a dealer who had one unspoken for; it was built in Japan. (Averaging ~38 mph on the first two tanks of gas.)

As far as initial quality goes, I haven't noticed any problems like the ones mentioned in the article. I do think that people who are really looking for a luxury sedan shouldn't go for the Camry XLE; there's only so much dressing up you can do to a family sedan with a starting MRSP of less than $18k. Look to the Avalon instead.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: PowerEngineer

Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.

Amen.

My 1996 LE was pretty spartan but very solid and reliable (until it was totaled...that's another story). I also think they were (and still are) the best looking Camrys. For the record, mine was assembled in Georgetown.

Early 2007 Camry hybrids are still being built in Japan, but production will eventually be moved to Georgetown too. I bought a hybrid at the end of July from a dealer who had one unspoken for; it was built in Japan. (Averaging ~38 mph on the first two tanks of gas.)

As far as initial quality goes, I haven't noticed any problems like the ones mentioned in the article. I do think that people who are really looking for a luxury sedan shouldn't go for the Camry XLE; there's only so much dressing up you can do to a family sedan with a starting MRSP of less than $18k. Look to the Avalon instead.

Yeah, who buys a $30,000 Camry when you can get an Avalon?

 

[Squisher]

Not exactly on topic, but....

To those of you that are interested the UAW has a list of approved vehicles, those which they deem, "union made vehicles."

I only see the Corolla.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
I was actually surprised that our 02 Honda Accord SE was built in Japan and not Georgetown, KY.

No it wasn't. Georgetown, KY has the Toyota plant. East Liberty, Ohio is where you car was made.

 

[deejayshakur]

i'm just amazed at how fvcking huge toyotas have gotten. honda/acura and other manufacturers seem to have kept this aspect under control though suceeding models in general are larger. toyotas just seem to grow exponentially. good luck parking your bigass car in the city.

 

[0roo0roo]

no, they all grow. old accords were the size of todays civics

 

[prontospyder]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DLeRium
98 Camry here built in Japan. I guess fewer Camrys are builti n Japan now?

Almost all (if not all) camrys are produced/assembled at the georgetown plant. everything.

Yep - according to these figures, 250,188 out of 302,636 Camrys sold this year in the US/Canada were made in North America:
Link

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Not exactly on topic, but....

To those of you that are interested the UAW has a list of approved vehicles, those which they deem, "union made vehicles."

I only see the Corolla.

Not interested.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

I have definitely noticed the Camry's reduction in overall quality, but would still buy it over it's domestic competition.