Originally posted by: radioouman
Originally posted by: RossMAN
I was actually surprised that our 02 Honda Accord SE was built in Japan and not Georgetown, KY.
No it wasn't. Georgetown, KY has the Toyota plant. East Liberty, Ohio is where you car was made.
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
I have definitely noticed the Camry's reduction in overall quality, but would still buy it over it's domestic competition.
QFT There were even articles at the time ('97) about how Toyota was rigorously "rationalizing" the manufacture of the then new Camrys to hold down production costs. It sure showed. I also agree with whoever said the '92-'96 models were the best looking, too . . . sinuous and yet substatial.Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.
Smaller, actually, I'm sure of it. My dad had a '78 Accord four door sedan, the first year for that model (all previous were hatchbacks), and I'm SURE that tiny little red rocket is/was smaller than the newest Civic sedans.Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, they all grow. old accords were the size of todays civics
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: AnonymouseUser
I have definitely noticed the Camry's reduction in overall quality, but would still buy it over it's domestic competition.
thats because you sir, are a sucker.
Originally posted by: Perknose
QFT There were even articles at the time ('97) about how Toyota was rigorously "rationalizing" the manufacture of the then new Camrys to hold down production costs. It sure showed. I also agree with whoever said the '92-'96 models were the best looking, too . . . sinuous and yet substatial.Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
But the biggest reason Toyota is having problems is not where the cars are built but more with how many they are building.
Originally posted by: cruzer
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
But the biggest reason Toyota is having problems is not where the cars are built but more with how many they are building.
I agree, they have increased quantity at the expense of quality in a gambit to grab market share.
FWIW I bought a 2006 Solara which AFAIK is the coupe version of the Camry. I had to make a warranty claim because every time I went over a speed bump or made a sharp turn the center console lid would pop open and hit me in the right shoulder.
Now I have to go back again because the parking brake handle is scraping against the trim, leaving black plastic slivers on the floor. There are mysterious rattles in the cabin as well.
It was a big shock after having been a very satisfied owner of a '96 Avalon.
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.
I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.
Originally posted by: cruzer
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
But the biggest reason Toyota is having problems is not where the cars are built but more with how many they are building.
I agree, they have increased quantity at the expense of quality in a gambit to grab market share.
FWIW I bought a 2006 Solara which AFAIK is the coupe version of the Camry. I had to make a warranty claim because every time I went over a speed bump or made a sharp turn the center console lid would pop open and hit me in the right shoulder.
Now I have to go back again because the parking brake handle is scraping against the trim, leaving black plastic slivers on the floor. There are mysterious rattles in the cabin as well.
It was a big shock after having been a very satisfied owner of a '96 Avalon.
Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.
I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.
That's not sarcasm. I'm only telling you what I've heard from upper-level management at a company that would be interested in JD Power results. The people I spoke with felt that Consumer Reports had far more reliable results than JD Power, and they were unhappy with the way JD Power conducts its operations. Before hearing that I had always thought JD Power to be a much better survey than Consumer Reports. But that's not what people in the know are saying.
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.
I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.
That's not sarcasm. I'm only telling you what I've heard from upper-level management at a company that would be interested in JD Power results. The people I spoke with felt that Consumer Reports had far more reliable results than JD Power, and they were unhappy with the way JD Power conducts its operations. Before hearing that I had always thought JD Power to be a much better survey than Consumer Reports. But that's not what people in the know are saying.
Sounds like some people don't like the truth.
A survey has to fit a set of standards to be scientific and have its results stand up. The first rule is to have an open base of data. If your only sample is from a certain group, like people that buy your magazine, then the results are flawed before you even begin. CR is very biased and its "survey" is flawed. I knew this when I took my first statistics class. Hell it was one of the first things you learn.
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.
I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.
That's not sarcasm. I'm only telling you what I've heard from upper-level management at a company that would be interested in JD Power results. The people I spoke with felt that Consumer Reports had far more reliable results than JD Power, and they were unhappy with the way JD Power conducts its operations. Before hearing that I had always thought JD Power to be a much better survey than Consumer Reports. But that's not what people in the know are saying.
Sounds like some people don't like the truth.
A survey has to fit a set of standards to be scientific and have its results stand up. The first rule is to have an open base of data. If your only sample is from a certain group, like people that buy your magazine, then the results are flawed before you even begin. CR is very biased and its "survey" is flawed. I knew this when I took my first statistics class. Hell it was one of the first things you learn.
Ok then lets agree both suck. JD Power sample size is far too small for the type of results they pull from it.
Originally posted by: Perknose
QFT There were even articles at the time ('97) about how Toyota was rigorously "rationalizing" the manufacture of the then new Camrys to hold down production costs. It sure showed. I also agree with whoever said the '92-'96 models were the best looking, too . . . sinuous and yet substatial.Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.
Smaller, actually, I'm sure of it. My dad had a '78 Accord four door sedan, the first year for that model (all previous were hatchbacks), and I'm SURE that tiny little red rocket is/was smaller than the newest Civic sedans.Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, they all grow. old accords were the size of todays civics
Christ, a female friend of mine bought a new Civic sedan hybrid. She came over at late at night to pick me up to go out (no pesky street lights where I live) and in the dark I thought the damn thing was an Accord. I'd bet any money that it is substantially biggger than my Dad's old Accord.