2007 camry lower build quality

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4
The best build Camrys were the '92-'96 models. It was all downhill after that. Toyota OVER-ENGINEERED those cars to by a fair margin and put a lot of money into development to insure that the materials used were up to snuff. Just look at the cheapness of the materials in the '97 in comparison to the '96 model.

Our '99 Camry is crap. It required a second engine at 127k km - but I won't hold that against Toyota. We bought that car used with 91k km, so who knows how it was maintained. But we bought from a Toyota dealer so I would assume they would only accepted 'good' cars.

Anyway, the interior is crap. It looks like crap aesthetically and has odd rattles. The button off the radio fell off, some of the interior panels are mis-aligned, various partscreak & rattle at highway speeds and bumpy roads, etc...the only redeeming quality is that it has very little wind noise for a car of its class & vintage.

Our '99 Maxima, by contrast, has a much nicer & better built interior, no rattles, and much more comfortable.

By contrast to both of the above, our old '91 Corolla that I abused heavily had absolutely no interior issues that the Camry has. No rattles, tight as a drum. It was a fun car to drive, even with its 3spd auto.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with both of you on this one.

My '98 is still cherry at 122,000 miles.

They didn't change the '97 Camry *AND* Lexus ES300 at the same time on the same platform because it *wasn't* good. Quite the contrary.

I will say, however, that mine has been meticulously maintained and is a "Made in Japan" model.

My grandmother (85 years old) still drives her '99. Every time my folks visit from North Carolina, they driver her car and my stepdad always comments on how smooth, quiet and comfortable her Camry feels. (My folks are Honda/Chrysler people)

The 2.2L 5S-FE motor is one of the best Toyota ever made......and the whole Gen4 Camry family was a generational change in smooth, quiet & refined.

Aesthetically, the interior of the Gen 4 Camry is fantastic. Gages are well laid out. Armrests at center and either side are perfectly laid out, the radio was fine (though I replaced mine w/ a Pioneer CD player), Climate controls are simple and work well. The interior dash material is fantastic. "Pleather" looking and iwth a nice, soft, supple feel to the touch..........(compared with the dash of my '98 F150 that's the hardest crap plastic I've ever touched in my life).

I'd buy a Gen 4 camry again in a heartbeat! :thumbsup:

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.

I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.

That's not sarcasm. I'm only telling you what I've heard from upper-level management at a company that would be interested in JD Power results. The people I spoke with felt that Consumer Reports had far more reliable results than JD Power, and they were unhappy with the way JD Power conducts its operations. Before hearing that I had always thought JD Power to be a much better survey than Consumer Reports. But that's not what people in the know are saying.

Sounds like some people don't like the truth.
A survey has to fit a set of standards to be scientific and have its results stand up. The first rule is to have an open base of data. If your only sample is from a certain group, like people that buy your magazine, then the results are flawed before you even begin. CR is very biased and its "survey" is flawed. I knew this when I took my first statistics class. Hell it was one of the first things you learn.

Ok then lets agree both suck. JD Power sample size is far too small for the type of results they pull from it.

How big is their sample size?

Supposedly a couple hundred cars at most. There were other reasons besides sample size that JD Power is bad, but I can't remember them off-hand.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'd have to respectfully disagree with both of you on this one.

My '98 is still cherry at 122,000 miles.

They didn't change the '97 Camry *AND* Lexus ES300 at the same time on the same platform because it *wasn't* good. Quite the contrary.

I will say, however, that mine has been meticulously maintained and is a "Made in Japan" model.

My grandmother (85 years old) still drives her '99. Every time my folks visit from North Carolina, they driver her car and my stepdad always comments on how smooth, quiet and comfortable her Camry feels. (My folks are Honda/Chrysler people)

The 2.2L 5S-FE motor is one of the best Toyota ever made......and the whole Gen4 Camry family was a generational change in smooth, quiet & refined.

Aesthetically, the interior of the Gen 4 Camry is fantastic. Gages are well laid out. Armrests at center and either side are perfectly laid out, the radio was fine (though I replaced mine w/ a Pioneer CD player), Climate controls are simple and work well. The interior dash material is fantastic. "Pleather" looking and iwth a nice, soft, supple feel to the touch..........(compared with the dash of my '98 F150 that's the hardest crap plastic I've ever touched in my life).

I'd buy a Gen 4 camry again in a heartbeat! :thumbsup:

But you're talking about the '97+ models without respect to the older '92-'96 models. Without question, the interior quality and build quality of the '97+ models is INFERIOR to the previous generation. I had a '95 Camry LE and my GF's parents' '97 Camry LE interior is quite a bit cheaper feeling in comparison.

Toyota decontented the '97 Camry using cheaper, lighter plastic all-around, flimsier cupholders, cheaper dash materials, etc. It was just a cheapish design. Major cost-cutting went into the remake to make up for the over-compensating done for the previous generation.

 

[redgtxdi]

And like I said, I'd have to respectfully disagree.

I had a friend w/ a '95 LE and my wife's girlfriend owned a '96 XLE. There was certainly nothing wrong with either, but I'd still choose a Gen 4 over Gen 3.

Gen 4's were decontented, yes. This was to eliminate the extremely high # of parts required to create a similar car. They made many improvements to the Gen 4. Recall the commecials??

"Smoother, quieter, more refined!"

And that's exactly what they were/are.
I do not buy a car based on the quality of the cupholders. And the plastic in my Gen 4 has served me quite well for 9 years. If there's anything I could knock a Camry (in general) for, it's the handling. They are family cars made for smooth, comfortable ride. The corner hugging is for the Honda folks.

Again, nothing wrong with a Gen 3, but Gen 4's didn't win the #1 selling car in America in '97 and again in '98 because the world was "snowballed" by Toyota's marketing.....

(P.S. '97 *was* the first year of the Gen 4 and perhaps your GF's parent's was subject to more issues as a first-year car? I don't like buying first-year makeovers. Same reason I'll be holding off for an '08 LE.)

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
And like I said, I'd have to respectfully disagree.

I had a friend w/ a '95 LE and my wife's girlfriend owned a '96 XLE. There was certainly nothing wrong with either, but I'd still choose a Gen 4 over Gen 3.

Gen 4's were decontented, yes. This was to eliminate the extremely high # of parts required to create a similar car. They made many improvements to the Gen 4. Recall the commecials??

"Smoother, quieter, more refined!"

And that's exactly what they were/are.
I do not buy a car based on the quality of the cupholders. And the plastic in my Gen 4 has served me quite well for 9 years. If there's anything I could knock a Camry (in general) for, it's the handling. They are family cars made for smooth, comfortable ride. The corner hugging is for the Honda folks.

Again, nothing wrong with a Gen 3, but Gen 4's didn't win the #1 selling car in America in '97 and again in '98 because the world was "snowballed" by Toyota's marketing.....

(P.S. '97 *was* the first year of the Gen 4 and perhaps your GF's parent's was subject to more issues as a first-year car? I don't like buying first-year makeovers. Same reason I'll be holding off for an '08 LE.)

I think you're mixing up two distinct points here

You're confusing (or maybe not) your like for the Gen 4 with the inherent inferiority of it in comparison to the Gen 3 as far as quality/content goes.

I have no doubt that you genuinely prefer the Gen 4 over the Gen 3 for your own reasons, but there is really no denying that the Gen 3 was the better built vehicle with higher quality materials used throughout. It's the same way that you cannot deny that the Nissan Maxima's materials quality took a nose dive after Ghosn went on his cost-cutting spree for the current generation.

Whenever cost-cutting is involved, something has got to give (Toyota is finding this out the hard way right now with quality glitches in the '06 Avalon and '07 Camry). That is the case also with then Gen 4 Camry in comparison to the Gen 3. However, for the Gen 3, Toyota threw cost-cutting out the door and made a bullet-proof tank with quality beyond reproach to dominate the Ford Taurus (which it did quite successfully). Toyota pulled out all the stops to ensure that Americans would fall in love with the '92 Camry and solidify Toyota's reputation for building quality vehicles. After Toyota had 'em hooked, lined and sinkered with the '92-'96, they backed off quite a bit and went into cost-cutting mode...and it showed.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that of all the Camrys that have been built, MOST look to the '92-'96 as the best ones built while the '97-'01 models are considered to be the dogs.

 

[fire400]

NIKE has done the same to the Terra Sebec shoes... OMG the silver is terrible and the brigher base color takes it far from the legendary dark colors! I don't mind the navy if it's a Nike shoe, but the silver needs to go, it makes it look like a ghetto street shoes ready to get washed in the mud.

sweat shops are losing respect, thus the shoes are losing quality, they aren't as sturdy and well-built with quality.

NIKE I hope loses sales to more generic brands.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
And like I said, I'd have to respectfully disagree.

I had a friend w/ a '95 LE and my wife's girlfriend owned a '96 XLE. There was certainly nothing wrong with either, but I'd still choose a Gen 4 over Gen 3.

Gen 4's were decontented, yes. This was to eliminate the extremely high # of parts required to create a similar car. They made many improvements to the Gen 4. Recall the commecials??

"Smoother, quieter, more refined!"

And that's exactly what they were/are.
I do not buy a car based on the quality of the cupholders. And the plastic in my Gen 4 has served me quite well for 9 years. If there's anything I could knock a Camry (in general) for, it's the handling. They are family cars made for smooth, comfortable ride. The corner hugging is for the Honda folks.

Again, nothing wrong with a Gen 3, but Gen 4's didn't win the #1 selling car in America in '97 and again in '98 because the world was "snowballed" by Toyota's marketing.....

(P.S. '97 *was* the first year of the Gen 4 and perhaps your GF's parent's was subject to more issues as a first-year car? I don't like buying first-year makeovers. Same reason I'll be holding off for an '08 LE.)

Hmm...well I guess we just have to disagree. Comparing our '99 Camry (150k km) to our '99 Maxima (130k km), makes the Camry an inferior car. Sure it has a comfy ride, but as soon as you have to do an emergency stop on the highway, the car pitches forward violently and rear end un-stabilizes. That's just an example.

In terms of build quality, I'd rate the Maxima way higher than the Camry. The interior door panels rattle, the rear deck lid rattles, the steering wheel makes a high pitched whine during parking lot-speed turns, the car has a lot of 'quirks'.

Although I don't know where the Camry is built...not sure if its a Japanese made or American made vehicle.

And its not like I'm anti-Camry either. I've been driving this car for the past 16 months exclusively, I put about 20k km on it during my internship. I just don't think its as good as our old '91 Corolla nor is it as good as our Maxima (ignoring the driveline as the Maxima is a V6).

Oh, the Camry does have a pretty good auto transmission, light years ahead of the Maxima unit.

 

[OCNewbie]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
considering neither the accord nor camry were no where to be found in JD power's latest dependability survey, i think the japanese (well, really just honda and toyota, cuz mitsu has always sucked, and nissan ain't that great) have developed a pretty good size beloved patriot in the armor.

This quote is almost punny

 

[redgtxdi]

Well, I can agree with *some* of what you're saying, but we've debated this over at toyotanation for years (and camryman before that) and it always results in the same thing...........

"My Gen 3's more solid"

"My Gen 4's more refined"

That about sums it up. (Everyone likes the 'look' of whatever Gen Camry they own)

Gen 4 engine/trans/suspension combinations are typically sought after in both the I-4 versions and (moreso) in the V-6 versions (3vz vs. 1mz). Though, admittedly a Gen 3/1mz version is pretty hip.

If there's been cost cutting to the point that Gen 4's are less of a car than the Gen 3's, I haven't experienced it.

I'm not familiar with Nissan's woes, so I cannot speak in that regard.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie

Originally posted by: ElFenix
considering neither the accord nor camry were no where to be found in JD power's latest dependability survey, i think the japanese (well, really just honda and toyota, cuz mitsu has always sucked, and nissan ain't that great) have developed a pretty good size beloved patriot in the armor.

This quote is almost punny

it would be if it were chinese cars that had taken over those spots!

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

I guess this news mean we should all head out and buy more reliable American Cars....

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

JD Power is almost worthless. Their sample size is tiny, and manufacturers have very little success in trying to affect the results. Consumer Reports is much more reliable.

I hope that was sarcasm. JDpowers uses a scientific surveying and testing method, Consumer reports only surveys it readers. CR is anything but fair and honest with their opinions when it is put in their car reviews and then tries to back them up with a very unscientific survey from a base that only includes those whom buy their magazines.

That's not sarcasm. I'm only telling you what I've heard from upper-level management at a company that would be interested in JD Power results. The people I spoke with felt that Consumer Reports had far more reliable results than JD Power, and they were unhappy with the way JD Power conducts its operations. Before hearing that I had always thought JD Power to be a much better survey than Consumer Reports. But that's not what people in the know are saying.

Sounds like some people don't like the truth.
A survey has to fit a set of standards to be scientific and have its results stand up. The first rule is to have an open base of data. If your only sample is from a certain group, like people that buy your magazine, then the results are flawed before you even begin. CR is very biased and its "survey" is flawed. I knew this when I took my first statistics class. Hell it was one of the first things you learn.

Ok then lets agree both suck. JD Power sample size is far too small for the type of results they pull from it.

GOOD GOD!!!.
I first thought you were just misinformed but looks like you are just another idiot that likes to spout off things he has absolutely no knowledge of.


In JD powers last Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) they surveyed over 47,000 people from a open sample pool. JDp?s surveys MILLIONS of people every year on many different topics. They know how to perform a scientific survey and their results show that. I am sorry what every car company you like or your daddy works for does not like the truth, but it is. So stop spreading FUD as I will call you out for all this BS you are trying to spread.


VDS = The Vehicle Dependability Study measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2003 model-year) vehicles. The study is based on responses from 47,620 original owners of 2003 model-year vehicles.


?Each year, J.D. Power and Associates surveys millions of consumers around the world to gather their opinions and expectations about the products and services they purchase.?

And?

?To maintain an unbiased, third-party perspective, J.D. Power and Associates funds its own syndicated research. The firm then offers the research to clients in order to recoup its investment. This independent position enables the firm to provide businesses with clear, credible, and accurate feedback directly from customers.?

 

[vi edit]

A lot of things are coming into play for Toyota...explosive growth, huge amount of redesigns, and the very serious issue of having to cut costs to compete.

I also think that they are folding under pressure a bit being *so* good for so long. Kind of like the sports team that went undefeated the whole season up till their last game. You just kind of self implode after performing so well for so long.

Toyota had redesigned the Camry, Sienna, Tacoma, Rav4, Avalona, and Solara in the last year or two. Plus they have redone the IS, the ES, the GS, and the LS on the Lexus side. The Tundra is also slated to have the all new redesign hit floors soon...

And they have sold more numbers of those cars than just about any other year. It's hard to meet production demands, effectively redesign that many cars, and still maintain good profit margins when so many added features are being tossed in and there is so much competition out there.

When I bought my '05 Frontier, the recent build quality problems with the new Tacoma's were a major part in my decision.

FWIW, I have a flawless '05 Highlander in my garage and I was a very happy owner of a '94 Camry. Both great cars.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

I guess this news mean we should all head out and buy more reliable American Cars....

Everyone knows most "American" cars are either built in Mexico or Canada, or they are assembled in America with parts made in Mexico or China. Even if "Made in USA" is hurting Toyota/Honda/Nissan, they are still better.

 

[TomKazansky]

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

QFT. Japanese Toyotas are better built compared to the American ones. I had a '95 and a '96 Camry('95 was the last year that Toyota imported Camry; '96 was the first year of production in America), and the difference was phenomenal

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: imthebadguy
its a POS: GET A FORD =)

why would they want another POS?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: TomKazansky

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

QFT. Japanese Toyotas are better built compared to the American ones. I had a '95 and a '96 Camry('95 was the last year that Toyota imported Camry; '96 was the first year of production in America), and the difference was phenomenal

Uhhh, my '95 Camry was built in Kentucky. Camrys were first produced in the US in 1988.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=46002

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
I was actually surprised that our 02 Honda Accord SE was built in Japan and not Georgetown, KY.

It couldn't have been built in Georgetown KY. Wo do Toyotas here

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: RossMAN
I was actually surprised that our 02 Honda Accord SE was built in Japan and not Georgetown, KY.

It couldn't have been built in Georgetown KY. Wo do Toyotas here

please read the thread

 

[Sukhoi]

Marlin1975, stop taking this so seriously, god damn. We're on a message board. BTW, I'm old enough to work for a car company. I already told you that I was only going by information I was given during a company presentation on quality and reliability. Considering I work for the company that gave the presention, I'm probably going to go by their information. Your information is far far different. Lets leave it at that.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Marlin1975, stop taking this so seriously, god damn. We're on a message board. BTW, I'm old enough to work for a car company. I already told you that I was only going by information I was given during a company presentation on quality and reliability. Considering I work for the company that gave the presention, I'm probably going to go by their information. Your information is far far different. Lets leave it at that.

No you keep making claims as though they are truth. Now you are acting like your information is still ok. Sounds like your company has a hard time with the truth, like yourself.

 

[JSang]

ok, how about comments from people who own 2007 camrys?

 

[senseamp]

Surprising to see Toyota cut corners on such an important vehicle.
Complacency setting in?

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: TomKazansky

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

QFT. Japanese Toyotas are better built compared to the American ones. I had a '95 and a '96 Camry('95 was the last year that Toyota imported Camry; '96 was the first year of production in America), and the difference was phenomenal

Uhhh, my '95 Camry was built in Kentucky. Camrys were first produced in the US in 1988.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=46002

:shocked:

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: TomKazansky

Originally posted by: Aimster
made in usa

QFT. Japanese Toyotas are better built compared to the American ones. I had a '95 and a '96 Camry('95 was the last year that Toyota imported Camry; '96 was the first year of production in America), and the difference was phenomenal

Uhhh, my '95 Camry was built in Kentucky. Camrys were first produced in the US in 1988.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=46002

:shocked:

What's so surprising/shocking?