2007WFP gradient banding

[deeznuts]

Originally posted by: guidryp

Originally posted by: Armageddon415
How noticeable is the gradient problem under regular usage, movies, and gaming? It seems like people arent noticing it unless they are testing for it or are doing specific tasks.

Personally I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. They are defective plain and simple. It will be hard to notice unless you compare because you will never know if the problem is the source or the monitor. Like you could be playing a game and never notice the banding in the sky until you go to a buddies house and see the sky as a smooth continuous tone.

Or you will comment on problems with photos you see online in a forum to be told that only you see them and to switch to 32 bit color (except you are already in 32 bit color).

Flip your graphics card to 16 bit color and use it a week that way. If you are happy with the results this monitor is for you. (right click desktop background, properties, settings, color quality Medium 16 bit, ok.

You would be surpised the number of people I see on photo forums complaining about artifacts in images that they see. Eventually people get them to check their computer and they are in 16 bit mode.

I've got one sitting right next to a 2005, and I never noticed it through a couple of days of testing the two monitors to decide which one to keep. It wasn't until I ran into this thread did I run this test. I honestly can say I would probably have never noticed it without these specialized tests, since I looked at pictures, played some HD clips, played some movies. And I was looking closely at PQ since I was still deciding which one to keep.

Since it appears to be a DVI issue, maybe it can be fixed through revisions. The blacklight bleeding is much better, and HDCP. Since I never really notice it during normal usage, I don't work with photos or graphics etc., it isn't a huge dealbreaker, but I would love for it to be fixed.

Click on each link below, and highlight the address and hit Enter, the picture should show up. If you look closely,you can see the banding on the second one. It is barely visible on these pics, but very prominent in person. As I said, I only notice it on these test patterns.

Test Image on 2005FPW

Test Image on 2007WFP

 

[Heartbreaker]

I can't see your test images. Forbidden.

Well from what I have seen so far the FP model is even worse and also has issue playing video. That was the model I was more interested in. Now I am in limbo. I may just put purchses on hold. I keep missing out on used 21" trinitrons.

 

[Zebo]

No banding on NEC 20WMGX2. It's perfect all eight rows. But only in two out of five DVI modes Standard and TEXT.

Dell 2005 no banding either

Sounds like 2007 has an electronics problem

 

[jamesbond007]

Wow! I was going to jump on the bandwagon and upgrade to this monitor from my Dell 1704FPT, which doesn't have ANY of the issues you guys are talking about! Sometimes it sure sucks to be on the bleeding edge of technology, I say.

 

[deeznuts]

Originally posted by: guidryp
I can't see your test images. Forbidden.

Just highlight the address in the new window, and hit enter. It should show up.

 

[Ryan Norton]

Hey JMWarren, have you returned your 2007FWP yet? you mentioned going through three of them... I ask because I want a widescreen LCD to replace my 2001FP and I can get an educational discount on Dell screens. Basically, I don't think I'll notice the banding, but if I do, I'd like to know I can send it back to Dell for money back =^)

 

[JMWarren]

I didn't have any problems getting my units returned. I am located in Canada though so double check that US policies are more strict.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: deeznuts
I've got one sitting right next to a 2005, and I never noticed it through a couple of days of testing the two monitors to decide which one to keep. It wasn't until I ran into this thread did I run this test. I honestly can say I would probably have never noticed it without these specialized tests, since I looked at pictures, played some HD clips, played some movies. And I was looking closely at PQ since I was still deciding which one to keep.

I think that's the general consensus. MOST people aren't going to notice it without the special tests, honestly. If you edit photos for a living you probably will notice it. Otherwise, I really doubt you would. I'm NOT denying the most determined people will notice this problem. Regardless I'm still recommending the older Dell ****5s because they appear to be better. No sense in recommending something inferior.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Thanks Mike. I am in Canada as well. Maybe I will roll the dice, when the next sale comes up.

Xtknight: Again the most people factor is all but meaningless. Most people seem to think 128K mp3s sound perfectly fine too. Most people wouldn't notice if you switched their computer to 16bit color. I think the latter is the ultimate test. If 16 bit color is fine with you then a banding monitor will be too. Granted the effect is likely more noticable, but it is will give a quick idea what will likely happen time to time.

When making choices, why buy a known defective product. I will also note that the FP seems more broken than the FPW with obvious problems playing some kinds of video according to JMWarren. Mike do you remember the situation that make the video issues show up. If we could get a test case for this, it might be another usefull test for the 2007fpw. I might accept a very tiny amount of banding, but no way would I accept any kind of video playback issues. If there is a video issue you want that nailed down, so you know it is the avi you just downloaded and not your monitor in one of it's flaky modes.

Bottom line IMO is return defective junk and encourage everyone to do the same or they will never fix it. It looks like they cost reduced the DVI inputs and turned them into junk, there is no reason anyone should stand for this.

If dell gets enought returns to impact the bottom line, and the reason is banding, they might actually look into it. If it doesn't hit the bottom line, they won't fix it. Simple as that.

 

[JMWarren]

I tired many different video files, all Divx encoded. The produced an interference pattern that would appear only on DVI. They wouldn't appear right away if you had just switched inputs to the DVI port. Turning on overlay seemed to cure the interference problem but there was still some vertical tearing (kinda like vsync off in a game) that was not present on my CRT or VGA on the 2007FP.

There's video around here of it somewhere. I'll track it down later tonight once I'm back from my exam.

 

[against]

I have to agree with guidryp here. Why spend your hard earned money on a defective product. More and more companies these days seem to be getting away with producing and selling junk.

In any case, i am using a 2007 WFP display at the moment and will attest to the fact that it indeed has color gradient banding problems. I first noticed this issue while playing EVE online. I've tried the display using the VGA port and the banding was not as noticeable.

I have ordered a higher quality DVI cable from Data Pro and will re-test using it when it arrives. If the cable isn't the issue, then the display goes back.

 

[JMWarren]

I really doubt it's the cable. I tried several on mine, including some expensive ones and it didn't make a difference...and really shouldn't as it's a digital connection.

 

[JiOwon]

I've also tried various cables which didn't change anything.
I'm thinking it could be related to how the 3 preset display modes have been configured at the factory. Still haven't spoken with Dell - will try first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[xtknight]

Sorry, I guess I must have been misunderstanding you guys all along. I didn't know the banding was that bad (I thought it was just the normal inconsistencies you'd find on every LCD but just a *tad* bit worse on the Dell). But now that I look at the images I see what you mean that it is like 16-bit. Well, yeah, that definitely would make a difference and I'll be sure to put it on the do-not-buy list in my LCD guide. Funny the reviews didn't seem to catch this (or did they and I missed it?)

 

[Heartbreaker]

We haven't see one of the more rigorous sites review these Dells. I did see banding as a negative in one of the reviews for the LG L2000C:

http://www.custompc.co.uk/custompc/reviews/84156/lg-flatron-l2000c.html
while the banding in the colour and greyscale colour scales deserves a definite 'must try harder'

I seriously wonder how this gets though QC. Don't they at least check one monitor. It doesn't sound like any escaped this fate. It looks like it originated with LG, I suspect dell monitor are completey LG monitors, while it looks like NEC takes just the panel and does there own electronics.

 

[JiOwon]

That's why I'm thinking it's a display mode preset issue. This banding issue is quite clear and any reviewer would have been able to spot it - perhaps Dell revised the firmware or the presets at some point after the batch that was reviewed.
A poster on the Australian WP forums who just recieved his screen claims to have none of the banding issues. Interested to see what settings and revision he has.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=501227&p=18

 

[Heartbreaker]

If you mean Fred. He doesn't say if he used DVI (where the problem is most extreme) and if he even tested with some real gradients. Just because somewhere some user doesn't notice banding, doesn't mean it isn't there. Some people are relatively insensitive. Heck some people are color blind.

 

[against]

Ok, fired up the 2007WFP with the new DVI cable from DataPro...and you guessed it, the gradient banding is still there. I guess i had to rule out the cable before i go through the hassle of sending it back.

It's a shame, because to be honest, minus the banding issues, this is really a nice display. But this issue makes the display defective and should not have been released to market with this problem.

Anyone been able to get anything out of Dell about this?

 

[yacoub]

Well here's the proper solution: Don't buy a Dell 20" monitor right now. The 2005FPW is old panel, backlight issues, poorer specs like contrast and view angles IIRC. The 2007WFP has gradient issues.

Me I'm happy with my 2007 because I don't use the PC as much anymore and for surfing the net and watching DVD movies it's perfectly fine. Since mine has no dead or stuck pixels it's a keeper.

I do hope they resolve this issue though.

 

[redbox]

I am hoping it happens like this: I was worried when everyone and their dog said that the backlight bleeding was soooooo bad on the 2005fpw but I got one and you know what didn't really bother me as I don't spend all day looking at a black screen. So this new Dell comes out and they fix the backlight bleeding thing and add HDCP( a minor crowd complained that the old one didn't have it and that would be bad later on whenever MS put out vista). So I bought this new model, and now the complaints start to roll in again. I see what you guys are talking about I just hope that it doesn't effect games or movies. This could just be another case of staring at a black screen only this time it is a color gradient screen.

My display comes monday, I will let you all know what I think.

 

[MaceX]

Originally posted by: redbox
I am hoping it happens like this: I was worried when everyone and their dog said that the backlight bleeding was soooooo bad on the 2005fpw but I got one and you know what didn't really bother me as I don't spend all day looking at a black screen. So this new Dell comes out and they fix the backlight bleeding thing and add HDCP( a minor crowd complained that the old one didn't have it and that would be bad later on whenever MS put out vista). So I bought this new model, and now the complaints start to roll in again. I see what you guys are talking about I just hope that it doesn't effect games or movies. This could just be another case of staring at a black screen only this time it is a color gradient screen.

My display comes monday, I will let you all know what I think.

Well it does affect some games. Plasma Pong, a game that relies heavily on gradients, looks like it's running in 16bit mode.

 

[deeznuts]

Originally posted by: redbox
I am hoping it happens like this: I was worried when everyone and their dog said that the backlight bleeding was soooooo bad on the 2005fpw but I got one and you know what didn't really bother me as I don't spend all day looking at a black screen. So this new Dell comes out and they fix the backlight bleeding thing and add HDCP( a minor crowd complained that the old one didn't have it and that would be bad later on whenever MS put out vista). So I bought this new model, and now the complaints start to roll in again. I see what you guys are talking about I just hope that it doesn't effect games or movies. This could just be another case of staring at a black screen only this time it is a color gradient screen.

My display comes monday, I will let you all know what I think.

I like your attitude, I have the same. I have both a 2005 and a 2007. I'm keeping the 2007, because I never noticed the gradient problem.

And I guess it's a good thing I don't play plasma pong or even heard of it.

 

[Shortass]

Well they apparently shipped my monitor tonight, so so much for the new panel possibility (was supposed to ship in 2 weeks). I'm sure it'll have banding, but if it's not bad I guess I'll keep it. What are the rules on replacements for dell? Restock fee? Shipping fee? Paying $25 for shipping every couple of weeks isn't cool...

 

[Heartbreaker]

Originally posted by: deeznuts

Originally posted by: redbox
I am hoping it happens like this: I was worried when everyone and their dog said that the backlight bleeding was soooooo bad on the 2005fpw but I got one and you know what didn't really bother me as I don't spend all day looking at a black screen. So this new Dell comes out and they fix the backlight bleeding thing and add HDCP( a minor crowd complained that the old one didn't have it and that would be bad later on whenever MS put out vista). So I bought this new model, and now the complaints start to roll in again. I see what you guys are talking about I just hope that it doesn't effect games or movies. This could just be another case of staring at a black screen only this time it is a color gradient screen.

My display comes monday, I will let you all know what I think.

I like your attitude, I have the same. I have both a 2005 and a 2007. I'm keeping the 2007, because I never noticed the gradient problem.

And I guess it's a good thing I don't play plasma pong or even heard of it.

Or play Eve Online - http://www.eve-online.com/, which is were someone else noticed the banding without even looking for it. And who knows what other games.

These panels are worse than 6bit TN panels that dither. If you think running your computer in 16 bit medium color mode is good enough for you then I guess this monitor is for you.

I like the attitude of people who send back, clearly broken product, rather than meekly accept whatever Dellmart sells them. Enough returns and Dell might do something about this. Until it costs them more to do nothing, they will continue to do nothing.

I prefer this attitude. Don't accept crap!

 

[JMWarren]

Originally posted by: Shortass
Well they apparently shipped my monitor tonight, so so much for the new panel possibility (was supposed to ship in 2 weeks). I'm sure it'll have banding, but if it's not bad I guess I'll keep it. What are the rules on replacements for dell? Restock fee? Shipping fee? Paying $25 for shipping every couple of weeks isn't cool...

The product is defective. Tell Dell that and they should cover the return shipping and not charge a restocking fee....at least they do in Canada, I tried three and gave up.