2008 Gaming Build Critique Requested

[Valaire]

Hi guys. My computer is over 5 years old and am building a new computer from scratch. I use the computer for gaming, music, and hobby video editing. I would like a critique of my build parts because while I used to be very knowledgeable about computer hardware, I am not so much anymore, and this is my first Intel PC build in about 15 years.

My goal is an upper-midrange gaming PC with great performance/value avoiding any and all premium pricing schemes. My budget is about $1000. I will not be upgrading all peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, headphones, etc.). I will be using as my OS drive a 74GB WD Raptor from my current build. I will also be putting in my X-Fi to see if it solves static problems, if not, I'll likely get an Asus Xonar DX1 or StereoX.

All of this will be purchased through Newegg. I have the entire thing in a Wish List if there is some easier way of posting it. I'm going to do it by hand for now. I will list my thoughts for each component in italics. OS will be Vista 32bit (probably Home Premium).

CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail

The choice seemed to be between the Q6600 and the E8400. I chose the Q6600 because it is more future proof and I don't plan on upgrading within the next 2 years, and CPU is rarely a bottleneck with games. Furthermore, I have the expectation that this 2.4 ghz processor can be overclocked to 3 ghz fairly easily. Can this be done with stock cooling? If not, can you recommend cooling components to buy from Newegg that are cheap?

Mobo
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

I chose this as a performance motherboard on a budget. It can support 1333 FSB and does not have features I don't need. It seems to have a good reputation. I will have 3 SATA devices at build time, leaving 1 more for a spare HDD, and I will have plenty of PCI-E and PCI cards. I plan to eventually get a PCI-E soundcard but that's about it.

RAM
OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR800C44GK - Retail

Memory is absurdly cheap right now. I concluded that DDR3 is not worth it, both from an actual increase and from a price perspective, and won't be until the Nehalem? I decided that DDR2 800 low latency ram was the best DDR2 to get because I can overclock the FSB to 333 to attain 3 ghz without hitting the 400 mhz limit of the RAM. Is this correct? I want to try to do 1:1 as I thought that was most stable for Intels. I know that Vista will only see like 3.2 GB of it but seems silly not to buy 4 GB when it is so cheap.

PSU
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS 500W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply - Retail

This one I need more help on. I have no idea what a good PSU is for what I need. I know that a future soundcard I want to buy has a floppy disk power connector so I might need a molex adapter for that if PSU's don't have that anymore. If this is not a good deal can someone recommend a decent brand PSU that is good value?

GPU
EVGA 512-P3-N875-AR GeForce 9800 GTX KO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

I wanted to spend a good chunk of money here as I recognize that GPU's are the biggest impact on game performance. I want to avoid premium pricing which is the 9800GT so the 9800GTX seemed like a logical choice. I wanted a one card solution as I play games in 1280 x 1024 and want SLI/Crossfire for added hassle and heat. EVGA seemed like a good deal, the card is pre-overclocked.

Storage Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

I picked this drive solely on the basis of price. It was the cheapest 750GB drive. I am only using it for storage as I have a 74 GB raptor for OS and programs. Thoughts?

Optical
Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model DVR-215DBK - OEM

Cheap, good reviews, name brand.

Case
LIAN LI PC-A05B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

I have a Praetorian case right now that is pretty dented. I think Lian Li's look nicer and a slightly smaller one would be nice like this one. I am wondering whether with my components and mobo there will be enough room and good airflow? Are there additional fans I should buy?



Thank you very much for the help. Please let me know if you need more info if I left something out.

 

[BassBomb]

Don't get the 9800GTX especially if you use 1280x1024
Get a 9600GT or wait a few weeks because new GPU's are really close to release
I'd get a Corsair HX520 or VX550 instead of that PSU

Ram you can probably get cheaper, I can get OCZ Plat 2gb kit for about 35AR but depends on where you are (I am in Canada)
3.0 ghz is easily attainable with 800mhz ram on a Q6600.. Not sure how well that board does for oc though

If you are a huge gamer I'd really go with a E8400 over the quad because nothing really will make use of the quad at this point (and in the future it has yet to be seen). Can easily OC a 8400 to 3.6ghz

Case is really subjective to yourself and Lian Li is a good manufacturer

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Valaire
CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail

The choice seemed to be between the Q6600 and the E8400. I chose the Q6600 because it is more future proof and I don't plan on upgrading within the next 2 years, and CPU is rarely a bottleneck with games. Furthermore, I have the expectation that this 2.4 ghz processor can be overclocked to 3 ghz fairly easily. Can this be done with stock cooling? If not, can you recommend cooling components to buy from Newegg that are cheap?

As you pointed out, games are rarely CPU-limited these days, so why bother with the extra power usage and heat of a quad-core chip if you're not going to benefit from it? If you're planning to upgrade around the two-year mark dual-core is fine.

In fact, since you're willing to overclock I'd even consider an E7200 for $135, which will easily overclock past 3 GHz.

Originally posted by: Valaire
RAM
OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR800C44GK - Retail

Memory is absurdly cheap right now. I concluded that DDR3 is not worth it, both from an actual increase and from a price perspective, and won't be until the Nehalem? I decided that DDR2 800 low latency ram was the best DDR2 to get because I can overclock the FSB to 333 to attain 3 ghz without hitting the 400 mhz limit of the RAM. Is this correct? I want to try to do 1:1 as I thought that was most stable for Intels. I know that Vista will only see like 3.2 GB of it but seems silly not to buy 4 GB when it is so cheap.

Be aware that with that memory kit you may need to adjust the memory voltage in the BIOS to get it to run properly.

Originally posted by: Valaire
GPU
EVGA 512-P3-N875-AR GeForce 9800 GTX KO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

I wanted to spend a good chunk of money here as I recognize that GPU's are the biggest impact on game performance. I want to avoid premium pricing which is the 9800GT so the 9800GTX seemed like a logical choice. I wanted a one card solution as I play games in 1280 x 1024 and want SLI/Crossfire for added hassle and heat. EVGA seemed like a good deal, the card is pre-overclocked.

The 9800GTX is little more than an overclocked 8800GTS. You could save yourself $70-100 with little or no noticeable loss in performance by going with an 8800GTS 512MB. Considering the size of your screen, you'd be fine even with an 8800GT.

Originally posted by: Valaire
Storage Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

I picked this drive solely on the basis of price. It was the cheapest 750GB drive. I am only using it for storage as I have a 74 GB raptor for OS and programs. Thoughts?

This drive is a generation old, so there are better drives out there now. Your 74GB Raptor doesn't have the speed advantage it once did over 7200RPM drives. Especially if the Raptor is getting up there in years, I would go with a single, large, fast drive. Two good choices would be the WD Caviar 640GB and Samsung Spinpoint 750GB.

 

[Valaire]

As you pointed out, games are rarely CPU-limited these days, so why bother with the extra power usage and heat of a quad-core chip if you're not going to benefit from it? If you're planning to upgrade around the two-year mark dual-core is fine.

Well, what I meant was that NEITHER of the cpu's will limit my gaming performance and I figured, given that, I might as well get the extra feature of quad core because of the possibility, however small, that it might have some impact in the next two years.

As for OCing, I'm a novice and only want to do conservative OCing with stock cooling.

Be aware that with that memory kit you may need to adjust the memory voltage in the BIOS to get it to run properly.

Yeah, I'm prepared to up the voltage to whatever the memory's specs are.

The 9800GTX is little more than an overclocked 8800GTS. You could save yourself $70-100 with little or no noticeable loss in performance by going with an 8800GTS 512MB. Considering the size of your screen, you'd be fine even with an 8800GT.

Well here's my problem. I have a great Viewsonic LCD monitor (VP191b) I got 2 years ago for $450. It never ghosts and has great quality. But, it's native resolution is 1280 x 1024, and as far as I know, at least in that generation, interpolation to outside resolutions was considered taboo.

As for future proofing, I really don't mind spending a little extra money on GPU to get some comfort zone. I know new GPU's are coming out, but I don't want to pay a premium for them, so unless the 9800 GTX falls substantially in price (I already consider it cheap), I figured it was OK to buy now.

This drive is a generation old, so there are better drives out there now. Your 74GB Raptor doesn't have the speed advantage it once did over 7200RPM drives. Especially if the Raptor is getting up there in years, I would go with a single, large, fast drive. Two good choices would be the WD Caviar 640GB and Samsung Spinpoint 750GB.

This is interesting. I did not know that my Raptor was outclassed yet by large storage drives--is this true? In order to save money, I'm going to reuse the Raptor as I assume the price difference b/w me getting a large slow drive and a large fast drive are substantial and probably not worth the extra money in real world results versus the raptor, even if it is last generation. Thoughts?

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: Valaire


This is interesting. I did not know that my Raptor was outclassed yet by large storage drives--is this true? In order to save money, I'm going to reuse the Raptor as I assume the price difference b/w me getting a large slow drive and a large fast drive are substantial and probably not worth the extra money in real world results versus the raptor, even if it is last generation. Thoughts?

It's absolutely true. WD's 320GB/platter drives are incredible. They run very cool and are very fast. Check out this comparo, where it is faster than a 150GB raptor in almost every test. You could get a velociraptor, but then you'd be spending a ton of money for very diminished performance gains, and it will heat up your case.

http://www.anandtech.com/stora...howdoc.aspx?i=3291&p=8

 

[DSF]

As far as new GPUs, there's speculation that one of ATI's new offerings may be faster and less expensive than the 9800GTX. Even if it's not, I wouldn't consider the extra money for a performance gain on the order of 5% to be worth it. Your call though. If it were me building, I'd at least see what happens in two weeks with the new cards.

 

[Valaire]

It's absolutely true. WD's 320GB/platter drives are incredible. They run very cool and are very fast. Check out this comparo, where it is faster than a 150GB raptor in almost every test. You could get a velociraptor, but then you'd be spending a ton of money for very diminished performance gains, and it will heat up your case.

Yeah but my point is that I don't want to spend extra money for a component I already have that even though it's old, was premium at the time, so I'm assuming is serviceable now as a GOOD OS drive even if it is not the fastest. I'm not interested in a new raptor because I can't fit it into the budget. What I can buy and do need is more storage space. I currently have 2 80 gig maxtor drives that are going to be junked in favor of a big storage drive.

Now what I assumed was that I'd have to pay too much money to not only get more storage space, but also double that up as an OS drive. I really only want to spend around $100 on a new hard drive, with emphasis on space over performance since I do have a raptor still.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Valaire
Now what I assumed was that I'd have to pay too much money to not only get more storage space, but also double that up as an OS drive. I really only want to spend around $100 on a new hard drive, with emphasis on space over performance since I do have a raptor still.

That 640GB WD drive is $109.99 at Newegg with free shipping.

 

[Valaire]

Thanks for the link. Just to clarify, do you think it's best to just ditch my Raptor and get a 640 GB drive versus a 74 GB Raptor + 750 GB storage drive? Is the performance that compelling? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I am just honestly curious.

Thank you for the help btw.

 

[DSF]

Well, for one thing you have to consider whether all your data will fit comfortably on a 640GB drive. If so, what I would probably do is sell the Raptor on the For Sale forum and just use the larger Caviar. (But I'm a keep it simple kind of guy, there's not necessarily a right or wrong answer here.)

 

[boomhower]

+1 for selling the raptor and getting a new drive. Keep in mind you will also be eliminating a fair bit of noise and heat.

I would look into a better motherboard for a quad. For duals they work great. For quads they can have troubles keeping up with the power draw. On another forum I actually saw one melt due on a higher clocked quad. Granted that was a pretty extreme situation and the chances are you won't have trouble but for $30-$40 it would be worth the piece of mind to me.

Why not 64bit Vista? Your paying for the RAM you might as well use it. Or do you already have the OS? If you do and it is retail you can get a 64bit disc for $10 from Microsoft, just give them a call.

That PSU should be fine. Your not going to find anything that good for even double the price.(counting the rebate)

 

[Valaire]

Originally posted by: boomhower
+1 for selling the raptor and getting a new drive. Keep in mind you will also be eliminating a fair bit of noise and heat.

I would look into a better motherboard for a quad. For duals they work great. For quads they can have troubles keeping up with the power draw. On another forum I actually saw one melt due on a higher clocked quad. Granted that was a pretty extreme situation and the chances are you won't have trouble but for $30-$40 it would be worth the piece of mind to me.

Why not 64bit Vista? Your paying for the RAM you might as well use it. Or do you already have the OS? If you do and it is retail you can get a 64bit disc for $10 from Microsoft, just give them a call.

That PSU should be fine. Your not going to find anything that good for even double the price.(counting the rebate)

I'm only going to overclock to 3 ghz, I assume that motherboard is okay for that? The motherboard seemed to be the best value at newegg.

As for 64 bit, I was under the impression that it performs worse in certain areas and has lack of support. Is this not the case anymore? I see most people using 32 bit.

Thanks for the confirmation on the PSU.

As for Raptor, I'm getting the feeling the consensus is to ditch it, which somewhat complicates my plans. I've never really noticed the noise from my raptor to be honest. I assumed my new computer would be noisy anyway due to the bigger video cards with bigger fans, etc.

I'll take another look at hard drives tomorrow and try to do some more research and come back here with my results. Thanks!

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: Valaire

I know that Vista will only see like 3.2 GB of it but seems silly not to buy 4 GB when it is so cheap.

What's silly is getting 32-bit Vista at all. If you want to run a 32 bit OS you'll soon have to replace with a 64-bit one, you might as well get XP.

 

[Extelleron]

I would recommend that you wait another two weeks until AMD releases the HD 4800 series cards. The HD 4850 ($199) and HD 4870 ($299) should make some dent in the market and I think the HD 4870 would be a better choice than that 9800GTX.

 

[Valaire]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: Valaire

I know that Vista will only see like 3.2 GB of it but seems silly not to buy 4 GB when it is so cheap.

What's silly is getting 32-bit Vista at all. If you want to run a 32 bit OS you'll soon have to replace with a 64-bit one, you might as well get XP.

I was looking for some reassurances that 64 bit Vista was "mainstream ready." In the past it was not, I have just been out of touch. If using 64 bit Vista has no detrimental affect on me using a sound card (X-Fi or Xonar), and my FPS and stability in games (WoW, CS, etc.), then I can consider it with confidence.

As I speak, I am googling this issue to find out some more information, but if my fears are completely unfounded now in 2008, please do share.

 

[Valaire]

Okay I decided to switch to Vista x64, thanks for the advice on that. The last thing I am still torn on is my HDD situation, the way I see it I have 4 options:

OPTION 1
- Sell the 74GB Raptor
- Use WD6400AAKS as sole drive, partitioned for OS/Apps + Data

OPTION 2
- Use the 74 GB Raptor as OS/Apps
- Buy cheap 750 GB drive as Data

OPTION 3
- Sell the 74 GB Raptor
- Buy ??? as sole drive, partitioned for OS/Apps + Data

OPTION 4
- Use 74 GB Raptor as a pagefile only
- Buy WD6400AAKS, partitioned for OS/Apps + Data

I would like some opinions on this. Is it even easy to sell a used 74GB raptor on these forums?