2009 NBA Finals

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: herkulease

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Stan Van Gundy: "We felt that 11 seconds was too much to start shooting foul shots, and we just gave too much space on the 3. But in retrospect [maybe we should have fouled]..." No sht? And why the fck would you full court press on that play? My God. Almost every normal team with a 3pt lead fouls with that much time left and Stan wanted to be special and got burned. Orlando gets Phil Jackson and it's a whole other outcome, this coach is garbage.

I think Phil is opposed to fouling to prevent shots @ end of games. Either it was JVG or Mark Jackson that mentioned this in the Denver series. Or Houston series can't remember which.

But that's Phil he has 9 rings and can afford to gamble.

Well they just interviewed Phil and he said that's why they took the ball in the backcourt to try and prevent from being fouled so they could get off the 3. Of course Van Gundy plays full court press and doesn't foul? WTF? Nelson had plenty of time to foul, but didn't because Van Gundy chose not to. Horrible call by a horrible coach, his reason was because he "thought his team wasn't shooting free throws well". WTF kind of logic is that? They get paid to make free throws, that's their job. At least it would have been in the power of his team to make or break the game, not his bad coaching. /shakes head.

The Magic are in the Finals so I wouldn't call SVG a horrible coach but he's made some great calls and some bad ones.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

I never said he was plotting or did it deliberately, perhaps blatant was a bad choice in words, "obviously a foul" works a little better.

And FWIW, I've hatched nasty plans during soccer games over people who had it coming......as the goalie. Ever see a goalie slide tackle a forward and get a foul called in his favor?

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: dbk
chillax dougp... i see your point regarding sportsmanship but that foul was not necessary

Eh, all the Laker homers are out - it's fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel because they get their feathers all ruffled up. You should see them in San Antonio, they run away like bitches when you talk about what Bowen does to Kobe.

edit: See what I mean, dbk? I pulled 3 of em out right there ...

I'm actually a Knicks fan, I just can't stand it when unnecessary, unsportsmanlike plays like that happen. And to agree with it?
The Magic clearly thought they were still in the game as they were closing in to commit an intentional foul. This attitude can't be changed within a second or two - the Lakers are already doing their best to get the ball up the floor, and Pau had a wide open one-footer that he decided to drain. You simply don't hit somebody that hard when they're in the air like that, I don't care if they have a history of floppage or not.

I'm saying the same thing about the dunk. It's like in baseball when the runner on second tips the batter. It's unprofessional and will get you hit by the pitcher. There's sports ethics - when the win is in the bag (5 points, with 3 seconds left), you don't dunk it. If you're a center, shoot the 3 off base - cause it's funny. At that point, no one would care - but this was just an insult, and very unnecessary.

F that... that is how losers think. They leave you open under the rim you throw it down... end of discussion... thank you very much.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: gwlam12

Originally posted by: dougp

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Definitely a Flagrant on Peaches 'n' Cream. No need for that.

Game is over though so it doesn't matter.

Fuck that. Gasol should NOT have dunked it like that with 3 seconds left, they had the fucking lead. Pietrus should have broken the fuckers back for all I care, it's plain insulting. I had a lot of respect for Gasol, sticking through the crap in Memphis - and he pissed away with that insulting dunk.

And that Kobe elbow to the head should have been a Flag2 with an automatic ejection. That's bullshit and the fucker gets away with it all the time.

There were still a good number of seconds left on the clock. You think the Magic wouldn't have tried for the intentional foul if he didn't dunk it? If the game was over, the Magic wouldn't have been chasing them all over the court.

Kobe was trying to pass the ball when his elbow hit Jameer. Jameer was just in his space. Offensive players are allowed space to move.

In the replay, you could see Kobe aim his elbow. Cheap ass move, with a very big non call that gave the Lakers the game.

Also to respond this...

Not a cheap ass move... just basketball. If a defender puts his face in the offensive players business it is no different if the offensive player swings his arms through 'his space' with the ball and hits the defenders arms or his face or whatever... it is actually a foul on the defender.

Now a lot of ref consistently blow this call... in the NBA more than anywhere it seems so i would not have been surprised in the least to see a foul called. But I'm glad they didn't.

And yes... i played years of varsity ball in HS and sort of one year in college (long story) and i ref'ed some HS games for a while... i know the rules. I personally have been hit in the mouth by elbows many times where i correctly got a foul called against me.

And PS: I knew at least one person would be screaming their ass off on here about that play the moment i saw it happen.

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: ricochet
Biggest single mistake of the game: Nelson not guarding the 3-pt at end of regulation. You should not care if Fisher drives by you going toward the basket. Defending the 3pt was all that should have mattered.

The biggest mistake was Dwight not knocking down the two free throws. Making even ONE free throw would have forced two possessions for the Lakers.

 

[cHeeZeFacTory]

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: ricochet
Biggest single mistake of the game: Nelson not guarding the 3-pt at end of regulation. You should not care if Fisher drives by you going toward the basket. Defending the 3pt was all that should have mattered.

The biggest mistake was Dwight not knocking down the two free throws. Making even ONE free throw would have forced two possessions for the Lakers.

Dwight's misses was ok, he's not a great FT shooter. But Hedo missed 4 FT's. And he's a 85% FT shooter. Turkeyloo pulled a Kobe.

 

[OCGuy]

Nick Anderson, anyone? Im surprised Sportcenter isnt bringing that up. (I think he was the one who missed free throws in '95)

 

[dbk]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Stan Van Gundy: "We felt that 11 seconds was too much to start shooting foul shots, and we just gave too much space on the 3. But in retrospect [maybe we should have fouled]..." No sht? And why the fck would you full court press on that play? My God. Almost every normal team with a 3pt lead fouls with that much time left and Stan wanted to be special and got burned. Orlando gets Phil Jackson and it's a whole other outcome, this coach is garbage.

even my dad who doesn't watch basketball was like..why didn't nelson foul fisher before he got the shot off?

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: dbk

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Stan Van Gundy: "We felt that 11 seconds was too much to start shooting foul shots, and we just gave too much space on the 3. But in retrospect [maybe we should have fouled]..." No sht? And why the fck would you full court press on that play? My God. Almost every normal team with a 3pt lead fouls with that much time left and Stan wanted to be special and got burned. Orlando gets Phil Jackson and it's a whole other outcome, this coach is garbage.

even my dad who doesn't watch basketball was like..why didn't nelson foul fisher before he got the shot off?

i dunno, its a 50-50 decision - orlando would have to go out and make their free throws.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Nick Anderson, anyone? Im surprised Sportcenter isnt bringing that up. (I think he was the one who missed free throws in '95)

Ah, the one former magic player who introduced the team at the beginning of the finals...I shuttered then, and I cringe now. You can bet his name will come up if the series ends sunday.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Guys, what are your thoughts on Stan Van Gundy just getting totally outcoached this game? IMO he sucked ass and has been outclassed by Jackson all series. Why the fck are you telling Jameer Nelson to double Kobe IN THE PAINT in OT when Fish and Ariza are camping the 3pt line and hot? Why didn't you tell Nelson to foul with <10 secs to prevent LA from getting a 3pt attempt to tie? Why didn't you get Lewis involved more? Why weren't there more pick and rolls with Howard (your team's bread and butter) at the end? Just a few questions for the fat man.

Imo Van Gundy was outclassed yesterday, altho if the magic hit a few more free throws it would have been moot. Imo he's done an outstanding job with his team, and nothing to be ashamed of against phil jackson. They've been playing solid team defense against kobe and the rest of the lakers. They've often shut down the inside of the paint (howard helps, but others congest the penetration, and he seals the deal with a block etc.)

They magic have also played impressively well offensive (last night, not so much). The ball movement has been crisp and they've constantly gotten open looks on their 3's, particularly for lewis when he's been hot (yet the lakers still couldn't slow him down.)

His players aren't nearly as mature and are much more unrefined than the lakers, which makes it harder for him. Howard knows defense but gets lost offensively. Alston is a head case who needs constant encouragement. Lee is erratic. Nelson is mature but out of rhythm and can't maintain what he's capable of throughout the game. I wouldn't say the Lakers players are all 'set it and forget it', but they've been together with phil longer and have the benefits of that.

Van Gundy could have been responsible for winning game 2 with the outstanding play he drew up, but Lee couldn't convert in the paint (actually twice.) This series would have had a completely different look if he had, and he'd be looked at much differently imo.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Some of the Kobe Rules last night were absolutely ridiculous. I like how every time Kobe got a player in the air and jumped into him, it was a foul, but that wasn't true for anyone on the Magic. Both Turkoglu and Reddick tried it at various points with mixed results. The leeway granted to Kobe by the officials to molest Howard down low was also pretty ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as the "defense" that Ariza plays on Turkoglu. I swear every single time he touches the ball, Ariza punches, slaps, or hits him -- all without any calls.

I'm all for letting players play, but if the NBA wants to do that then it needs to be true for both teams, not just the Lakers. Also, there were bad calls on the Lakers. I thought some of the fouls on Gasol and Bynum were complete bullshit, but they don't balance out how untouchable Kobe is throughout a game. He's a great player, but he gets bailed out by the refs all the freaking time.

Finally, the Magic should have won that game. Once again, they failed to get a good inbounds play and Pietrus basically panicked with the ball. Their inability, or unwillingness, to play good defense allowed Fisher (Derek "I'm-too-old-to-be-playing-this-game" Fisher!!!) to hit two big three pointers after he had continued his poor playoff performance.

I don't think the Magic can rattle off 3 wins in a row. It's amazing that the Lakers are going to win considering their team chemistry is essentially zero. It seems like success stories in the postseason are usually about superstars putting their "me, me" personalities aside and focusing on the team, but that clearly isn't the case. Kobe continues to be a poor teammate, a bad leader, and a selfish player. Despite his reputation as a "closer" the guy doesn't shoot well when he has the last shot of the game and only has ONE assist in that situation. During his entire career. ONE assist. Wow.

As a relatively casual NBA fan, this Finals disappoints me continually. Poor officiating is getting in the way of watching two teams slug it out. It hurts even more because most nights the Stanley Cup is on in parallel and it only takes one click of the remote to see how NBA officiating should be. Yes, NHL refs blow calls, but they don't systematically ruin the game. They at least try to be consistent about what is and isn't a penalty and, when the game's on the line (especially on overtime) the whistles go away. They let the players play the freaking game. I can't believe how frustrating it's been to watch some of these games in the NBA playoffs. "dribble dribble dribble... foul!" "dribble dribble dribble ... foul!" It seems like 30% of the time I'm watching, it's a free throw contest, not a basketball game.

 

[Miramonti]

All the magic need to do is win on Sunday. Then, they need to win the next one in LA. They knew if they were going to be champs they'd have to win in LA anyways... Then, if it gets to a game 7, anything can happen (especially if they win game 6 in LA, major confidence booster...)

Just saying...

 

[Ns1]

FISHER!!!

Good morning to be a Lakers fan.

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Some of the Kobe Rules last night were absolutely ridiculous. I like how every time Kobe got a player in the air and jumped into him, it was a foul, but that wasn't true for anyone on the Magic. Both Turkoglu and Reddick tried it at various points with mixed results. The leeway granted to Kobe by the officials to molest Howard down low was also pretty ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as the "defense" that Ariza plays on Turkoglu. I swear every single time he touches the ball, Ariza punches, slaps, or hits him -- all without any calls.

I'm all for letting players play, but if the NBA wants to do that then it needs to be true for both teams, not just the Lakers. Also, there were bad calls on the Lakers. I thought some of the fouls on Gasol and Bynum were complete bullshit, but they don't balance out how untouchable Kobe is throughout a game. He's a great player, but he gets bailed out by the refs all the freaking time.

Finally, the Magic should have won that game. Once again, they failed to get a good inbounds play and Pietrus basically panicked with the ball. Their inability, or unwillingness, to play good defense allowed Fisher (Derek "I'm-too-old-to-be-playing-this-game" Fisher!!!) to hit two big three pointers after he had continued his poor playoff performance.

I don't think the Magic can rattle off 3 wins in a row. It's amazing that the Lakers are going to win considering their team chemistry is essentially zero. It seems like success stories in the postseason are usually about superstars putting their "me, me" personalities aside and focusing on the team, but that clearly isn't the case. Kobe continues to be a poor teammate, a bad leader, and a selfish player. Despite his reputation as a "closer" the guy doesn't shoot well when he has the last shot of the game and only has ONE assist in that situation. During his entire career. ONE assist. Wow.

As a relatively casual NBA fan, this Finals disappoints me continually. Poor officiating is getting in the way of watching two teams slug it out. It hurts even more because most nights the Stanley Cup is on in parallel and it only takes one click of the remote to see how NBA officiating should be. Yes, NHL refs blow calls, but they don't systematically ruin the game. They at least try to be consistent about what is and isn't a penalty and, when the game's on the line (especially on overtime) the whistles go away. They let the players play the freaking game. I can't believe how frustrating it's been to watch some of these games in the NBA playoffs. "dribble dribble dribble... foul!" "dribble dribble dribble ... foul!" It seems like 30% of the time I'm watching, it's a free throw contest, not a basketball game.

Are you serious? Hedu got a ton of those calls, he pretty much put lamar odom in foul trouble himself. Kobe was also being mugged in the paint and there weren't any calls going his way. I think kobe may have got away with a few bogus calls last game, but this game more than made up for it.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
*snip*

The Lakers didnt get a single free-throw in the 4th quarter, despite Kobe driving.


According to ESPN, his assist stats these finals have only been matched by one other Laker: Magic Johnson.

If you dont like him now, you wont ever like him, even with stats like that. Even watching him drive and kick out all year long and in the playoffs.

He deserves his 4th ring, and I really hope they dont take the Magic lightly, because I have no doubt they could win 3 games in a row.

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Some of the Kobe Rules last night were absolutely ridiculous. I like how every time Kobe got a player in the air and jumped into him, it was a foul, but that wasn't true for anyone on the Magic. Both Turkoglu and Reddick tried it at various points with mixed results. The leeway granted to Kobe by the officials to molest Howard down low was also pretty ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as the "defense" that Ariza plays on Turkoglu. I swear every single time he touches the ball, Ariza punches, slaps, or hits him -- all without any calls.

I'm all for letting players play, but if the NBA wants to do that then it needs to be true for both teams, not just the Lakers. Also, there were bad calls on the Lakers. I thought some of the fouls on Gasol and Bynum were complete bullshit, but they don't balance out how untouchable Kobe is throughout a game. He's a great player, but he gets bailed out by the refs all the freaking time.

Finally, the Magic should have won that game. Once again, they failed to get a good inbounds play and Pietrus basically panicked with the ball. Their inability, or unwillingness, to play good defense allowed Fisher (Derek "I'm-too-old-to-be-playing-this-game" Fisher!!!) to hit two big three pointers after he had continued his poor playoff performance.

I don't think the Magic can rattle off 3 wins in a row. It's amazing that the Lakers are going to win considering their team chemistry is essentially zero. It seems like success stories in the postseason are usually about superstars putting their "me, me" personalities aside and focusing on the team, but that clearly isn't the case. Kobe continues to be a poor teammate, a bad leader, and a selfish player. Despite his reputation as a "closer" the guy doesn't shoot well when he has the last shot of the game and only has ONE assist in that situation. During his entire career. ONE assist. Wow.

As a relatively casual NBA fan, this Finals disappoints me continually. Poor officiating is getting in the way of watching two teams slug it out. It hurts even more because most nights the Stanley Cup is on in parallel and it only takes one click of the remote to see how NBA officiating should be. Yes, NHL refs blow calls, but they don't systematically ruin the game. They at least try to be consistent about what is and isn't a penalty and, when the game's on the line (especially on overtime) the whistles go away. They let the players play the freaking game. I can't believe how frustrating it's been to watch some of these games in the NBA playoffs. "dribble dribble dribble... foul!" "dribble dribble dribble ... foul!" It seems like 30% of the time I'm watching, it's a free throw contest, not a basketball game.

Your entire statement is a complete load of horse shit.

4th Quarter numbers: ORL-17 fta, LAL-0 fta. Oh and about Kobe getting all the foul calls? He shot 8 fts last night to Howard's 14 and Hedo's 13. The Lakers as a team shot 20 fts against 37 for the Magic. Nearly twice as many free throws? Where's Phokus?

The Magic played with 8 players on the court last night, 5 in Magic jerseys and 3 in zebra stripes, and the Lakers still pulled it out. Conspiracy theories my ass.

And Kobe not a team player? He's had 8 assists in every game this series. In fact he's the assist leader for either team in all games in the finals.

Since you're a "relatively casual NBA fan," maybe you should shut your mouth before you go spouting off about things you clearly know very little about.

 

[KLin]

I can't believe the magic had 17 fta in the 4th vs. 0 for the Lakers. Someone really wants this series to stretch out to 7 games!!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Guys, what are your thoughts on Stan Van Gundy just getting totally outcoached this game? IMO he sucked ass and has been outclassed by Jackson all series. Why the fck are you telling Jameer Nelson to double Kobe IN THE PAINT in OT when Fish and Ariza are camping the 3pt line and hot? Why didn't you tell Nelson to foul with <10 secs to prevent LA from getting a 3pt attempt to tie? Why didn't you get Lewis involved more? Why weren't there more pick and rolls with Howard (your team's bread and butter) at the end? Just a few questions for the fat man.

Imo Van Gundy was outclassed yesterday, altho if the magic hit a few more free throws it would have been moot. Imo he's done an outstanding job with his team, and nothing to be ashamed of against phil jackson. They've been playing solid team defense against kobe and the rest of the lakers. They've often shut down the inside of the paint (howard helps, but others congest the penetration, and he seals the deal with a block etc.)

They magic have also played impressively well offensive (last night, not so much). The ball movement has been crisp and they've constantly gotten open looks on their 3's, particularly for lewis when he's been hot (yet the lakers still couldn't slow him down.)

His players aren't nearly as mature and are much more unrefined than the lakers, which makes it harder for him. Howard knows defense but gets lost offensively. Alston is a head case who needs constant encouragement. Lee is erratic. Nelson is mature but out of rhythm and can't maintain what he's capable of throughout the game. I wouldn't say the Lakers players are all 'set it and forget it', but they've been together with phil longer and have the benefits of that.

Van Gundy could have been responsible for winning game 2 with the outstanding play he drew up, but Lee couldn't convert in the paint (actually twice.) This series would have had a completely different look if he had, and he'd be looked at much differently imo.

Meh. It wasn't about coaching. If anything, SVG has been outclassing PJ during this series by playing the Lakers to tight games despite allegedly having an inferior and less experienced team. The entire problem with the Magic has been execution. 2 missed free throws seperates this series from LA being 3-1 or 1-3.

Orlando played thee better game last night overall but lost due to poor free-throw shooting. Turk missing 3 out of 4 in the 4th Q? wtf?

Oh well. There's always next year. Orlando has quite a few good years ahead of them. They will win a championship within the next few years, if not multiple champonships.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Meh. It wasn't about coaching. If anything, SVG has been outclassing PJ during this series by playing the Lakers to tight games despite allegedly having an inferior and less experienced team. The entire problem with the Magic has been execution. 2 missed free throws seperates this series from LA being 3-1 or 1-3.

Orlando played thee better game last night overall but lost due to poor free-throw shooting. Turk missing 3 out of 4 in the 4th Q? wtf?

Oh well. There's always next year. Orlando has quite a few good years ahead of them. They will win a championship within the next few years, if not multiple champonships.

I dont think PJ has been outclassed in the least bit. SVG is not a horrible coach, but come on...this is twice now in the playoffs he has been called out by his players.

Howard before, and now Raefer Alston for sitting out Q4 and OT. He said he was "shocked."

Seriously, playing Jameer Nelson may come down to being one of the worst decisions in Final's history, besides not fouling the Lakers in the back-court to make them shoot free throws.

Having Howard in the game when they were up 3 was ridiculous. They should have put all FT shooters on the floor.

What PJ does, he does quietly. Making the adjustment to double Alston early in the game so he wouldnt get hot worked very well.

The defensive schemes on the Monster himself (Howard) have been more than anyone could ever expect. He gets a few hook shots per game, but other than that, they are putting him on the line to earn it.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Some of the Kobe Rules last night were absolutely ridiculous. I like how every time Kobe got a player in the air and jumped into him, it was a foul, but that wasn't true for anyone on the Magic. Both Turkoglu and Reddick tried it at various points with mixed results. The leeway granted to Kobe by the officials to molest Howard down low was also pretty ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as the "defense" that Ariza plays on Turkoglu. I swear every single time he touches the ball, Ariza punches, slaps, or hits him -- all without any calls.

I'm all for letting players play, but if the NBA wants to do that then it needs to be true for both teams, not just the Lakers. Also, there were bad calls on the Lakers. I thought some of the fouls on Gasol and Bynum were complete bullshit, but they don't balance out how untouchable Kobe is throughout a game. He's a great player, but he gets bailed out by the refs all the freaking time.

Finally, the Magic should have won that game. Once again, they failed to get a good inbounds play and Pietrus basically panicked with the ball. Their inability, or unwillingness, to play good defense allowed Fisher (Derek "I'm-too-old-to-be-playing-this-game" Fisher!!!) to hit two big three pointers after he had continued his poor playoff performance.

I don't think the Magic can rattle off 3 wins in a row. It's amazing that the Lakers are going to win considering their team chemistry is essentially zero. It seems like success stories in the postseason are usually about superstars putting their "me, me" personalities aside and focusing on the team, but that clearly isn't the case. Kobe continues to be a poor teammate, a bad leader, and a selfish player. Despite his reputation as a "closer" the guy doesn't shoot well when he has the last shot of the game and only has ONE assist in that situation. During his entire career. ONE assist. Wow.

As a relatively casual NBA fan, this Finals disappoints me continually. Poor officiating is getting in the way of watching two teams slug it out. It hurts even more because most nights the Stanley Cup is on in parallel and it only takes one click of the remote to see how NBA officiating should be. Yes, NHL refs blow calls, but they don't systematically ruin the game. They at least try to be consistent about what is and isn't a penalty and, when the game's on the line (especially on overtime) the whistles go away. They let the players play the freaking game. I can't believe how frustrating it's been to watch some of these games in the NBA playoffs. "dribble dribble dribble... foul!" "dribble dribble dribble ... foul!" It seems like 30% of the time I'm watching, it's a free throw contest, not a basketball game.

Your entire statement is a complete load of horse shit.

4th Quarter numbers: ORL-17 fta, LAL-0 fta. Oh and about Kobe getting all the foul calls? He shot 8 fts last night to Howard's 14 and Hedo's 13. The Lakers as a team shot 20 fts against 37 for the Magic. Nearly twice as many free throws? Where's Phokus?

The Magic played with 8 players on the court last night, 5 in Magic jerseys and 3 in zebra stripes, and the Lakers still pulled it out. Conspiracy theories my ass.

And Kobe not a team player? He's had 8 assists in every game this series. In fact he's the assist leader for either team in all games in the finals.

Since you're a "relatively casual NBA fan," maybe you should shut your mouth before you go spouting off about things you clearly know very little about.

Kobe's a team player? Did you watch that mockumentary by Spike Lee? Kobe tried to put on his "let's be friends" face and act like a real teammate for the cameras, but when he'd go and talk to guys it was obvious that he'd never done it before. He throws fucking hissy fits on the floor when his teammates don't do what he wants. A prime example is when Shannon Brown went to crash the boards from the corner on what looked like a Kobe shot only to have Kobe try and pass it to him when he wasn't there. Shit happens, Brown did the right thing, but Kobe ripped his fucking head off. He has no idea how to be a supportive teammate, he only knows that the guys around him are there for him, rather than him being there for the team.

The main stat that I was talking about was that, over his career, when Kobe has the ball for the last shot he has 1 career assist. 1! Uno! In his CAREER. Are you telling me that Kobe has had the best shot every single time he's had the ball last except once? I doubt it. The other night against the Magic was a classic example. Kobe quadruple teamed, Odom, Fisher, Farmar ALL wide open and what happens? Kobe drives and gets stuffed by Hedo. And, it's not like Kobe is some other-wordly player when taking the last shot. He shoots something like 27% -- pretty much what everyone else shoots.

Kobe only gets his assists because he realizes that he needs his teammates to get in rhythm if he has any chance of winning. It's not that he wants to give the ball up, it's that he has to to win.

As for bullshit calls, look at what doesn't get called all series. Trevor Ariza plays Hedo like a cornerback draped over a wideout before the 5 yard contact rule. Every single time Hedo touches the ball, he's getting molested. Like I said, that'd be fine if that's how the game was called all around, but if people put so much as a finger on Kobe the whistles come flying out. This game Ariza got called for a few more of these fouls, but still not enough. My example still stands though... if Kobe can get a foul by getting a guy into the air and jumping into him, why can't anyone else? This problem that I'm outlining with Kobe isn't just limited to him. LeBron and Wade both get as many astoundingly stupid calls as Bryant. That doesn't make it any more right.

The free throw discrepancy is a pretty narrow way to look at the game. A LOT of those calls were bullshit because they were on Gasol, Bynum, and Howard fighting down low. Let's face it, the officials don't know how to officiate big men anymore. I thought that a few of these calls were legit, but a lot were ridiculously stupid things on both sides of the ball.

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: DingDingDao

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
W T F

I think the Kobe elbow might not have been worth a flagrant, but at least call a foul on that shit, the replay shows it was blatant. Kobe plays dirty in the heat of the game, it's all over YouTube.

Youve never played any sort of sport (not attacking you personally, just saying in general) if you think that in the heat of the moment, you hatch some dirty plan to elbow the face of some guy who is running at you.

If they had some bad blood earlier, (say, it was artest..for instance) then I could understand.

They will probably give Kobe a Flag 1, keep the one on ORL a flagrant 1.

Even if Kobe were to be suspended a game, it would just rest him for Game 6.

OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Some of the Kobe Rules last night were absolutely ridiculous. I like how every time Kobe got a player in the air and jumped into him, it was a foul, but that wasn't true for anyone on the Magic. Both Turkoglu and Reddick tried it at various points with mixed results. The leeway granted to Kobe by the officials to molest Howard down low was also pretty ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as the "defense" that Ariza plays on Turkoglu. I swear every single time he touches the ball, Ariza punches, slaps, or hits him -- all without any calls.

I'm all for letting players play, but if the NBA wants to do that then it needs to be true for both teams, not just the Lakers. Also, there were bad calls on the Lakers. I thought some of the fouls on Gasol and Bynum were complete bullshit, but they don't balance out how untouchable Kobe is throughout a game. He's a great player, but he gets bailed out by the refs all the freaking time.

Finally, the Magic should have won that game. Once again, they failed to get a good inbounds play and Pietrus basically panicked with the ball. Their inability, or unwillingness, to play good defense allowed Fisher (Derek "I'm-too-old-to-be-playing-this-game" Fisher!!!) to hit two big three pointers after he had continued his poor playoff performance.

I don't think the Magic can rattle off 3 wins in a row. It's amazing that the Lakers are going to win considering their team chemistry is essentially zero. It seems like success stories in the postseason are usually about superstars putting their "me, me" personalities aside and focusing on the team, but that clearly isn't the case. Kobe continues to be a poor teammate, a bad leader, and a selfish player. Despite his reputation as a "closer" the guy doesn't shoot well when he has the last shot of the game and only has ONE assist in that situation. During his entire career. ONE assist. Wow.

As a relatively casual NBA fan, this Finals disappoints me continually. Poor officiating is getting in the way of watching two teams slug it out. It hurts even more because most nights the Stanley Cup is on in parallel and it only takes one click of the remote to see how NBA officiating should be. Yes, NHL refs blow calls, but they don't systematically ruin the game. They at least try to be consistent about what is and isn't a penalty and, when the game's on the line (especially on overtime) the whistles go away. They let the players play the freaking game. I can't believe how frustrating it's been to watch some of these games in the NBA playoffs. "dribble dribble dribble... foul!" "dribble dribble dribble ... foul!" It seems like 30% of the time I'm watching, it's a free throw contest, not a basketball game.

Your entire statement is a complete load of horse shit.

4th Quarter numbers: ORL-17 fta, LAL-0 fta. Oh and about Kobe getting all the foul calls? He shot 8 fts last night to Howard's 14 and Hedo's 13. The Lakers as a team shot 20 fts against 37 for the Magic. Nearly twice as many free throws? Where's Phokus?

The Magic played with 8 players on the court last night, 5 in Magic jerseys and 3 in zebra stripes, and the Lakers still pulled it out. Conspiracy theories my ass.

And Kobe not a team player? He's had 8 assists in every game this series. In fact he's the assist leader for either team in all games in the finals.

Since you're a "relatively casual NBA fan," maybe you should shut your mouth before you go spouting off about things you clearly know very little about.

Kobe's a team player? Did you watch that mockumentary by Spike Lee? Kobe tried to put on his "let's be friends" face and act like a real teammate for the cameras, but when he'd go and talk to guys it was obvious that he'd never done it before. He throws fucking hissy fits on the floor when his teammates don't do what he wants. A prime example is when Shannon Brown went to crash the boards from the corner on what looked like a Kobe shot only to have Kobe try and pass it to him when he wasn't there. Shit happens, Brown did the right thing, but Kobe ripped his fucking head off. He has no idea how to be a supportive teammate, he only knows that the guys around him are there for him, rather than him being there for the team.

The main stat that I was talking about was that, over his career, when Kobe has the ball for the last shot he has 1 career assist. 1! Uno! In his CAREER. Are you telling me that Kobe has had the best shot every single time he's had the ball last except once? I doubt it. The other night against the Magic was a classic example. Kobe quadruple teamed, Odom, Fisher, Farmar ALL wide open and what happens? Kobe drives and gets stuffed by Hedo. And, it's not like Kobe is some other-wordly player when taking the last shot. He shoots something like 27% -- pretty much what everyone else shoots.

Kobe only gets his assists because he realizes that he needs his teammates to get in rhythm if he has any chance of winning. It's not that he wants to give the ball up, it's that he has to to win.

As for bullshit calls, look at what doesn't get called all series. Trevor Ariza plays Hedo like a cornerback draped over a wideout before the 5 yard contact rule. Every single time Hedo touches the ball, he's getting molested. Like I said, that'd be fine if that's how the game was called all around, but if people put so much as a finger on Kobe the whistles come flying out. This game Ariza got called for a few more of these fouls, but still not enough. My example still stands though... if Kobe can get a foul by getting a guy into the air and jumping into him, why can't anyone else? This problem that I'm outlining with Kobe isn't just limited to him. LeBron and Wade both get as many astoundingly stupid calls as Bryant. That doesn't make it any more right.

The free throw discrepancy is a pretty narrow way to look at the game. A LOT of those calls were bullshit because they were on Gasol, Bynum, and Howard fighting down low. Let's face it, the officials don't know how to officiate big men anymore. I thought that a few of these calls were legit, but a lot were ridiculously stupid things on both sides of the ball.

Holy nested comments Batman. Let's see if we can sort through this.

1) I'm not even going to get into what documentary shows what (I saw Doin' Work, I was meh about it, even as a Lakers fan). The fact of the matter is that we only see what the media wants us to see, so we really have no idea what Kobe's relationship with his teammates is like. I don't know, you don't know, none of us know. So rather than speculate on this I'd rather just stick to what we see on the court. Yes, Kobe is tough on his teammates, as was Michael Jordan. Just because he isn't all smiles all the time doesn't make him a bad teammate.

2) When it comes to the game-winning shots, I don't know how to argue with you on this one. Mostly because I have no idea how to even begin to compile the statistics on this. I'd be willing to bet that over his career, Michael Jordan took way more shots than passes on the final possession as well. Yes, probably more than just once, but my point is that when you're the best player on your team and it's the last shot, you get paid to shoot. My other point in this regard is that Kobe's reputation as a closer doesn't rely on just the LAST shot. His ability to put teams away in 4th quarters before the final shot is recognized as probably the best in the NBA right now (the last few games not withstanding ). It's part of the reason why the Lakers ended up with the 2nd best record in the league this year.

3) So you're telling me that when he doesn't have assists, he's selfish, but when he DOES have assists (like in this series), he does it in spite of himself? Please, you can't have it both ways. Oh, and it's not just this series. He leads both the Lakers and Orlando in APG for the entire playoffs.

4) I've watched every game the Lakers have played in this series, and I'll admit this: Ariza is being very physical with Hedo. The flipside to this coin is that on nearly every drive, Hedo's off arm is clearing Ariza out. Defensive foul or offensive foul? If I'm the ref, I let them play. Perfect example was last night, when Hedo drove the lane and made that floater to push ORL's lead to 5 with less than two remaining. His off arm clearly pushes the defender away and clears space for his shot. Call the charge? No, let them play BOTH WAYS.

5) With regard to your comment about Kobe, Lebron, and DWade getting calls, that is NOT Kobe's problem. Your beef here should be with the refs, not Kobe. It's not like Kobe is calling the fouls.

6) I agree that the officiating last night was terrible, mostly because of the lack of consistency. Yes, free throw discrepancy is not the only way to evaluate officiating, but 17-0!?!?!?! Seriously, how can you ignore that statistic?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Meh. It wasn't about coaching. If anything, SVG has been outclassing PJ during this series by playing the Lakers to tight games despite allegedly having an inferior and less experienced team. The entire problem with the Magic has been execution. 2 missed free throws seperates this series from LA being 3-1 or 1-3.

Orlando played thee better game last night overall but lost due to poor free-throw shooting. Turk missing 3 out of 4 in the 4th Q? wtf?

Oh well. There's always next year. Orlando has quite a few good years ahead of them. They will win a championship within the next few years, if not multiple champonships.

I dont think PJ has been outclassed in the least bit. SVG is not a horrible coach, but come on...this is twice now in the playoffs he has been called out by his players.

Howard before, and now Raefer Alston for sitting out Q4 and OT. He said he was "shocked."

Seriously, playing Jameer Nelson may come down to being one of the worst decisions in Final's history, besides not fouling the Lakers in the back-court to make them shoot free throws.

Having Howard in the game when they were up 3 was ridiculous. They should have put all FT shooters on the floor.

What PJ does, he does quietly. Making the adjustment to double Alston early in the game so he wouldnt get hot worked very well.

The defensive schemes on the Monster himself (Howard) have been more than anyone could ever expect. He gets a few hook shots per game, but other than that, they are putting him on the line to earn it.

Hack-a-Howard is not a particularly brilliant strategy, nor is it anything new. And while Jameer hasn't been contributing much during his playing time, Alston has had only one great game out of four and wasn't playing particularly well last night.

This all still comes down to execution. If Lee would've dropped that lob lay-up and if the Magic would have been making anything close to their season average for free-throws, people would be calling SVG a genius right now for out-maneuvering PJ, without any of Stan's decisions being any different.