2009 NBA Finals

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BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
To avoid the quotes:

1) I just don't think that Kobe is anything close to a team player and that clearly oozes out into my perception of his assists and selfishness. It's my opinion, it might be wrong, but, hey, there's no use in arguing.

2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.

3) See #1. Kobe and I aren't buddies, so I clearly see what he does in a heavily biased way.

4) Right now, you're right. The series has progressed too far this way for the refs to change it midway. I would just rather see them call Ariza for a few of those fouls when they started and then call Hedo for pushing off if he keeps doing it instead of letting it escalate into a mugging (on both ends!).

5) Fair enough, I just wanted to show you that I wasn't blind to the fact that Kobe isn't the only player getting bailed out.

6) 100% agreed. Lack of consistency is something the NBA seems to embrace. I hate how they start off a game calling the game one way, decide halfway through that they should call it another and, by the fourth quarter be doing something completely different. It confuses players and makes them pick up unnecessary fouls in order to understand what they can and can't do.

I'd like to see fewer fouls. They break up the pace of the game. I'd like to see some rule changes that would allow for a more fluid, rapid game with fewer interruptions and fewer games that devolve into free throw contests (Games 6 and 7 of the Boston / Orlando series come to mind). I hate how Howard and Gasol and are fighting for position and some asshat ref blows a whistle because of a shove or something... let them play! Free throws and fouls are, of course, essential to the game, but they've taken over and they're hurting the game.

As an aside, I think two of the biggest problems in the NBA are the subjectivity of the rules and Stern's desire to regulate emotion out of the game. The NBA would be a better officiated league if the rules were more cut and dry, if there was less debate about whether that was a flagrant 1 or a flagrant 2 or whatever because SO much of that depends on who was involved or what the refs think they saw. Take the shove on Gasol. That's not a flagrant foul because Gasol is a monster. If a smaller guy like Shannon Brown had been on the receiving end of that it would have been flagrant. That makes no sense. Ugh, all these touchy fouls drive me nuts.

Finally, the NBA needs some younger refs. Why in god's name haven't they established a ref school whose job is to churn out new referees? Find college guys who aren't going to make the pros and develop a program that teaches them, from the ground up, how to ref. Send them to the NCAA for a few years, have them ref a few developmental league games and take the best ones and give them provisional status in the NBA. Make them attend remedial classes every year. Make them retire by age 50. Right now, you have to pay to go to the ref camp and it's a complete joke. They don't teach you anything. It's a joke.

/rant over.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
OCguy is just in denial that Kobe is a piece of shit cheapshot artist and the refs let him get away with it, ALWAYS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJAx7dCnlnY

NBA = WWE

Dude... Kobe's played in how many games and how many elbows like that has he thrown? A dozen maybe? Two dozen? So that is like one every 40 games? How many players has he sent off the floor for medical attention in his career... like 5 maybe?

BTW... i think like pretty much every play that he threw an elbow in the video he got hit with a foul... that's not getting away with it.

Not a cheap shot artist, bro. A little wild and dirty sometimes? Ya sure... I'll give you that. But few players in the NBA get hacked and constantly beatup the way Kobe does... it is just what teams try to do to dominant offensive players. Jordan got the same treatment... Shaq really got that treatment... and so on...

Now what Pet did last night to Pau... you pull that shit on the playground you are getting ass kicked by everyone there. That was a cheap shot. I have been pushed off the rim from shoves in the back and came down from about 8 feet right on my back. I have seen guys break their hips and arms that way.

You want the cheap shot poster boy then look at Bowen... that guy is an intelligent, gentlemanly thug on the floor. On the playground he'd get his ass kicked every night.
 

neegotiator

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2006
1,117
1
0
Originally posted by: DingDingDao
3) So you're telling me that when he doesn't have assists, he's selfish, but when he DOES have assists (like in this series), he does it in spite of himself? Please, you can't have it both ways. Oh, and it's not just this series. He leads both the Lakers and Orlando in APG for the entire playoffs.


http://lakersblog.latimes.com/...009/06/brian-shaw.html

Thinking the article addresses what BeauJangles is talking about. Obviously Kobe is the most talented player on the floor and should be 1st on priority list to take last shot (1st question in interview), though sometimes to detriment of team.

As for assists, 3rd question kind've addresses in that he's not looking to make the pass that leads to the pass that leads to an open shot, but the pass to get him the assist. Obviously more often than not, player with high assists is helping team, but there's always those assists that aren't to help the team but to pad the stat line. Kind've like if there's a 2-on-1 fast break, guy with ball has open lane and rather than take shot, goes behind back or off backboard pass to trailing player.

I could be wrong, but either way, the article's a good read on playing with kobe, especially since brain shaw played with him during championship runs.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: neegotiator


As for assists, 3rd question kind've addresses in that he's not looking to make the pass that leads to the pass that leads to an open shot, but the pass to get him the assist. Obviously more often than not, player with high assists is helping team, but there's always those assists that aren't to help the team but to pad the stat line. Kind've like if there's a 2-on-1 fast break, guy with ball has open lane and rather than take shot, goes behind back or off backboard pass to trailing player.


Oh man, that is too much :laugh:


When hes not getting assists, its because hes a ballhog.


When he is getting record assists, its because he is only trying to "pad the stat line."


There is only one stat he cares about padding.....the final score. :thumbsup:
 

neegotiator

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2006
1,117
1
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: neegotiator


As for assists, 3rd question kind've addresses in that he's not looking to make the pass that leads to the pass that leads to an open shot, but the pass to get him the assist. Obviously more often than not, player with high assists is helping team, but there's always those assists that aren't to help the team but to pad the stat line. Kind've like if there's a 2-on-1 fast break, guy with ball has open lane and rather than take shot, goes behind back or off backboard pass to trailing player.


Oh man, that is too much :laugh:


When hes not getting assists, its because hes a ballhog.


When he is getting record assists, its because he is only trying to "pad the stat line."


There is only one stat he cares about padding.....the final score. :thumbsup:

haha well obviously not to that degree. despite some lulls last night he made some awesome plays, just addressing something that I'm always curious about with the assist stat. Alot of times I see it with tmac in houston, whereas after he was injured alot more of those "hockey assists" happened, where pass led to pass led to open 3. Not saying that kobe's 100% purposefully padding assists all the time, just that not all assists are created equal.
 

PaNsyBoy8

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2001
1,446
0
0
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
To avoid the quotes:



2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.
/rant over.

The ESPN article you are refering to is a column by Bill Simmons a well know Celtic fan and Laker-hater, most of his articles are pretty much anti-lakers (excluding today). He pulled that stat from 82games.com

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm


 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
To avoid the quotes:



2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.
/rant over.

The ESPN article you are refering to is a column by Bill Simmons a well know Celtic fan and Laker-hater, most of his articles are pretty much anti-lakers (excluding today). He pulled that stat from 82games.com

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He actually started coming around today.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn...ns/090612&sportCat=nba
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
To avoid the quotes:



2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.
/rant over.

The ESPN article you are refering to is a column by Bill Simmons a well know Celtic fan and Laker-hater, most of his articles are pretty much anti-lakers (excluding today). He pulled that stat from 82games.com

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He actually started coming around today.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn...ns/090612&sportCat=nba

It feels so wrong lol. Sorta like when the Lakers had Malone and Payton for a year--it felt weird cheering for players I spent most of my life hating.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
0
I watched the game last night, I really wanted the Magic to win, but down the stretch, the Lakers just played, smarter, harder, and wanted it more. They deserved to win, and the magic are a bunch of chokers.
 

Buttzilla

Platinum Member
Oct 12, 2000
2,676
1
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
To avoid the quotes:



2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.
/rant over.

The ESPN article you are refering to is a column by Bill Simmons a well know Celtic fan and Laker-hater, most of his articles are pretty much anti-lakers (excluding today). He pulled that stat from 82games.com

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He actually started coming around today.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn...ns/090612&sportCat=nba

great read, both articles
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
0
Originally posted by: Buttzilla
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
To avoid the quotes:



2) That stat was an ESPN article about the Finals. I don't remember which one and, because ESPN's site really sucks, I can't dig it up again. I completely agree that when you're paid like Kobe, you should be pulling the trigger on the last play. I just think it's astounding that he has only one assist in that situation (again, if the stats are right). Even if you're getting the big bucks, taking a contested jump shot with three guys draped all over you might not be the best decision.
/rant over.

The ESPN article you are refering to is a column by Bill Simmons a well know Celtic fan and Laker-hater, most of his articles are pretty much anti-lakers (excluding today). He pulled that stat from 82games.com

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He actually started coming around today.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn...ns/090612&sportCat=nba

great read, both articles

seriously, you replied just to post "great read" either post something at least a little interesting or DIAF

 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
2,505
0
0
Unimpressed with all the SVG hate. Plenty of teams will be happy if the magic get rid of him.

Oh my god, Phil Jackson outcoached him! In other news, I lost a 100m race to Usain Bolt.

Did Doc Rivers really outcoach Phil Jackson last year? Is he a better coach than Phil? Magic fans, would you rather have Doc???
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Unimpressed with all the SVG hate. Plenty of teams will be happy if the magic get rid of him.

Oh my god, Phil Jackson outcoached him! In other news, I lost a 100m race to Usain Bolt.

Did Doc Rivers really outcoach Phil Jackson last year? Is he a better coach than Phil? Magic fans, would you rather have Doc???

Yeah really... as a coach, you have to at least expect that your players don't have their head completely up their ass. Nelson sadly did have his head pretty much completely up his ass and was completely not thinking about what to do with Fisher once Fish had the ball. A) foul, B) push him left so that he has to shoot while moving to his left (Fisher does not like shooting while moving left at all...as is the case with most lefties).

All in all SVG is a good coach... but he is not a great coach. He is not a good motivator at all... he has some great talent on his team but he has not pushed them adequately to improve and/or man up... mainly I'm talking about Howard and Lewis.

Particularly Howard (im about to go on a total tangent here)... Howard has the post moves of a 6th grade power forward. I'm a fucking 6'1" shitty point guard (well at least I was shitty... now im even worse) and i have better post moves than Howard does... I know for a fact i can shoot better with my off hand than Howard can and that is something I should not be able to say about anyone that makes a living play basketball.

Shaq was physically dominating, yes. But he developed 3-4 go two post moves that defenders could not stop... they could only hope to pester him enough so that he missed. Shaq FT's were and are horrible... only part of his game that keep him from being dominant in every aspect and situation of the game.

The guy that Howard to needs to look at is Hakeem the Dream... that is who Howard should try to emulate.

For starters Howard need set 3 development goals for next season:

1) Howard needs to be a 70% FT shooter at least... > 80% is the long term goal. Any player that get fouled as much as Howard does should have this as a top priority. It changes the whole scheme of how defenders and defense will play you if you, as a dominant player, can also play to draw fouls and make them pay when they do foul you. Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem... these guys were decent FT shooters.

2) Howard needs to have the Timmy Duncan face up bank shot.... this shot is fucking crazy easy. Why more bigs don't get this in their arsenal is beyond me. If big had to guard him at 15 feet or pay dearly he would rip D's a new one every night. Pretty much only about 3-4 bigs could contest his 15ft bank shot and match his first step to hoop from that spot... and I said contest, not block.

3) A good 5-8 foot game off the left block with your left hand... or your right ala Shaq's baby fall away or even Ewing and Hakeem's real fall away. These moves are not stoppable... D's priority is stopping you from getting the paint. One dribble into the middle bump with shoulder sipn away to a leftie bank shot or baby fall away with the right. I think Shaq got this move blocked like twice in his entire career (late in his career) and I don't think Hakeem ever got blocked.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Curious... Has there ever been an NBA finals in which one of the teams didn't "earn" one free throw in the last 17mins - while other team shot 20
 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,168
16
81
Originally posted by: dahunan
<Curious... Has there ever been an NBA finals in which one of the teams didn't "earn" one free throw in the last 17mins - while other team shot 20

how'd u do taht (grey highlight)
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,694
10
81
Originally posted by: KLin
I can't believe the magic had 17 fta in the 4th vs. 0 for the Lakers. Someone really wants this series to stretch out to 7 games!!

and how many did the Magic make? it's ugly
 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
2,505
0
0
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: wkabel23
Unimpressed with all the SVG hate. Plenty of teams will be happy if the magic get rid of him.

Oh my god, Phil Jackson outcoached him! In other news, I lost a 100m race to Usain Bolt.

Did Doc Rivers really outcoach Phil Jackson last year? Is he a better coach than Phil? Magic fans, would you rather have Doc???

Yeah really... as a coach, you have to at least expect that your players don't have their head completely up their ass. Nelson sadly did have his head pretty much completely up his ass and was completely not thinking about what to do with Fisher once Fish had the ball. A) foul, B) push him left so that he has to shoot while moving to his left (Fisher does not like shooting while moving left at all...as is the case with most lefties).

All in all SVG is a good coach... but he is not a great coach. He is not a good motivator at all... he has some great talent on his team but he has not pushed them adequately to improve and/or man up... mainly I'm talking about Howard and Lewis.


.

I don't buy that SVG is a bad motivator either. Look at how his team has responded after heartbreaking losses in the playoffs...they always come back strong. They faced huge deficits in the Cavs series, but SVG motivated his guys to hang in there and come back.

It's on Dwight to develop his own post game, besides isn't that what Ewing is there for? As for Lewis...I think he's stepped up and proved his worth in the playoffs.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
For starters Howard need set 3 development goals for next season:

1) Howard needs to be a 70% FT shooter at least... > 80% is the long term goal. Any player that get fouled as much as Howard does should have this as a top priority. It changes the whole scheme of how defenders and defense will play you if you, as a dominant player, can also play to draw fouls and make them pay when they do foul you. Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem... these guys were decent FT shooters.

2) Howard needs to have the Timmy Duncan face up bank shot.... this shot is fucking crazy easy. Why more bigs don't get this in their arsenal is beyond me. If big had to guard him at 15 feet or pay dearly he would rip D's a new one every night. Pretty much only about 3-4 bigs could contest his 15ft bank shot and match his first step to hoop from that spot... and I said contest, not block.

3) A good 5-8 foot game off the left block with your left hand... or your right ala Shaq's baby fall away or even Ewing and Hakeem's real fall away. These moves are not stoppable... D's priority is stopping you from getting the paint. One dribble into the middle bump with shoulder spin away to a leftie bank shot or baby fall away with the right. I think Shaq got this move blocked like twice in his entire career (late in his career) and I don't think Hakeem ever got blocked.

Every big could learn a thing or two from Duncan. He's neither physically imposing nor quick and even with his really bad knees this season, he did well. I wonder what Patrick Chewing really is teaching Howard. Maybe they'll work together in the off-season. Remember though, Dwight is still a young kid and is still learning his game and is definitely going to add stuff to it. Maybe Kareem should stop helping Bynum and the Lakers and move on to a much better prospect like Howard.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
For starters Howard need set 3 development goals for next season:

1) Howard needs to be a 70% FT shooter at least... > 80% is the long term goal. Any player that get fouled as much as Howard does should have this as a top priority. It changes the whole scheme of how defenders and defense will play you if you, as a dominant player, can also play to draw fouls and make them pay when they do foul you. Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem... these guys were decent FT shooters.

2) Howard needs to have the Timmy Duncan face up bank shot.... this shot is fucking crazy easy. Why more bigs don't get this in their arsenal is beyond me. If big had to guard him at 15 feet or pay dearly he would rip D's a new one every night. Pretty much only about 3-4 bigs could contest his 15ft bank shot and match his first step to hoop from that spot... and I said contest, not block.

3) A good 5-8 foot game off the left block with your left hand... or your right ala Shaq's baby fall away or even Ewing and Hakeem's real fall away. These moves are not stoppable... D's priority is stopping you from getting the paint. One dribble into the middle bump with shoulder spin away to a leftie bank shot or baby fall away with the right. I think Shaq got this move blocked like twice in his entire career (late in his career) and I don't think Hakeem ever got blocked.

Every big could learn a thing or two from Duncan. He's neither physically imposing nor quick and even with his really bad knees this season, he did well. I wonder what Patrick Chewing really is teaching Howard. Maybe they'll work together in the off-season. Remember though, Dwight is still a young kid and is still learning his game and is definitely going to add stuff to it. Maybe Kareem should stop helping Bynum and the Lakers and move on to a much better prospect like Howard.

Agreed... there is a reason why Duncan is called "Big Fundamental". his footwork and essential mechanics are excellent... and yeah he really never was nearly as gifted as Howard is now.

I do think Howard will get there... he seems driven and honest (i.e. he can look at his game and see his flaws). But he needs better instruction... i sound retarded saying that with a HoF'er teaching him but I think his shooting mechanics suck.

And don't diss Bynum too much just yet... before his knee injury he was fast becoming a monster. If you look at typical total recovery times for knee injuries in football or basketball it is two years to get fully back to 100%. In pro sports there is a big difference between being 95% and 100% when it's your wheels we are talking about. Let's see how Bynum does next year... but also consider that playing on the Lakers is not so good for his development... he is, at best, a third scoring option between Kobe and Gasol and, really, depending who is on the floor he make take a back seat to Odom, Fisher, Ariza, etc.

But Bynum has game and was/is developing well... the knee injury really sucked because it interrupted the momentum he had going but he'll get it going again, no doubt.
 
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
3
81
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
For starters Howard need set 3 development goals for next season:

1) Howard needs to be a 70% FT shooter at least... > 80% is the long term goal. Any player that get fouled as much as Howard does should have this as a top priority. It changes the whole scheme of how defenders and defense will play you if you, as a dominant player, can also play to draw fouls and make them pay when they do foul you. Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem... these guys were decent FT shooters.

2) Howard needs to have the Timmy Duncan face up bank shot.... this shot is fucking crazy easy. Why more bigs don't get this in their arsenal is beyond me. If big had to guard him at 15 feet or pay dearly he would rip D's a new one every night. Pretty much only about 3-4 bigs could contest his 15ft bank shot and match his first step to hoop from that spot... and I said contest, not block.

3) A good 5-8 foot game off the left block with your left hand... or your right ala Shaq's baby fall away or even Ewing and Hakeem's real fall away. These moves are not stoppable... D's priority is stopping you from getting the paint. One dribble into the middle bump with shoulder spin away to a leftie bank shot or baby fall away with the right. I think Shaq got this move blocked like twice in his entire career (late in his career) and I don't think Hakeem ever got blocked.

Every big could learn a thing or two from Duncan. He's neither physically imposing nor quick and even with his really bad knees this season, he did well. I wonder what Patrick Chewing really is teaching Howard. Maybe they'll work together in the off-season. Remember though, Dwight is still a young kid and is still learning his game and is definitely going to add stuff to it. Maybe Kareem should stop helping Bynum and the Lakers and move on to a much better prospect like Howard.

Agreed... there is a reason why Duncan is called "Big Fundamental". his footwork and essential mechanics are excellent... and yeah he really never was nearly as gifted as Howard is now.

I do think Howard will get there... he seems driven and honest (i.e. he can look at his game and see his flaws). But he needs better instruction... i sound retarded saying that with a HoF'er teaching him but I think his shooting mechanics suck.

Howard will develop some of the moves Duncan has but I don't think he has the basketball IQ and intangibles Duncan has. Those cannot be taught, its something a player has or doesn't have. I do think Howard is good enough that he will get a ring but I don't think he'll ever get to Duncan status.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
For starters Howard need set 3 development goals for next season:

1) Howard needs to be a 70% FT shooter at least... > 80% is the long term goal. Any player that get fouled as much as Howard does should have this as a top priority. It changes the whole scheme of how defenders and defense will play you if you, as a dominant player, can also play to draw fouls and make them pay when they do foul you. Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem... these guys were decent FT shooters.

2) Howard needs to have the Timmy Duncan face up bank shot.... this shot is fucking crazy easy. Why more bigs don't get this in their arsenal is beyond me. If big had to guard him at 15 feet or pay dearly he would rip D's a new one every night. Pretty much only about 3-4 bigs could contest his 15ft bank shot and match his first step to hoop from that spot... and I said contest, not block.

3) A good 5-8 foot game off the left block with your left hand... or your right ala Shaq's baby fall away or even Ewing and Hakeem's real fall away. These moves are not stoppable... D's priority is stopping you from getting the paint. One dribble into the middle bump with shoulder spin away to a leftie bank shot or baby fall away with the right. I think Shaq got this move blocked like twice in his entire career (late in his career) and I don't think Hakeem ever got blocked.

Every big could learn a thing or two from Duncan. He's neither physically imposing nor quick and even with his really bad knees this season, he did well. I wonder what Patrick Chewing really is teaching Howard. Maybe they'll work together in the off-season. Remember though, Dwight is still a young kid and is still learning his game and is definitely going to add stuff to it. Maybe Kareem should stop helping Bynum and the Lakers and move on to a much better prospect like Howard.

Agreed... there is a reason why Duncan is called "Big Fundamental". his footwork and essential mechanics are excellent... and yeah he really never was nearly as gifted as Howard is now.

I do think Howard will get there... he seems driven and honest (i.e. he can look at his game and see his flaws). But he needs better instruction... i sound retarded saying that with a HoF'er teaching him but I think his shooting mechanics suck.

Howard will develop some of the moves Duncan has but I don't think he has the basketball IQ and intangibles Duncan has. Those cannot be taught, its something a player has or doesn't have. I do think Howard is good enough that he will get a ring but I don't think he'll ever get to Duncan status.

I just scored 57pts with Duncan last night in NBA 2K9 playing with my buddies
 
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