2013-2014 TV Death Watch

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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Chelsea Lately on E! Coming to an end, contract won't be renewed.

I tried watching that when nothing else was on during the summer... Did not find her funny and even offensive/rude.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Community may be Walking Dead.

Discussions ongoing with Hulu to continue production of the show.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
I tried watching that when nothing else was on during the summer... Did not find her funny and even offensive/rude.

Yeah I tried to watch this before too and it was one of the worst things I've ever seen on television. Not funny at all and trying way too hard.

KT
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
What's's worse han cancelled, double cancelled. CBS scraps remaining Friends and Teacher episodes from schedule.

I never understood why they do this. At least some people are watching. It can't do worse than the crap they are going to replace it with so why don't just show the episodes that were filmed?
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
They still don't grasp that many many people do NOT watch "normal" television anymore. (Or normally for that matter). They need to re-establish how their ratings system works. I realize they sort of count some online streaming sources, but for the most part they are missing the mark big time. These days most people would rather watch an entire season / series back to back than sit week to week waiting (that is just one example).
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,104
813
136
I don't think it's a lack of grasping that, it's more that those individuals are less valuable than the ones who sit and watch live, with commercials, thus they shouldn't be weighted equally.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I don't think it's a lack of grasping that, it's more that those individuals are less valuable than the ones who sit and watch live, with commercials, thus they shouldn't be weighted equally.

That demographic doesn't buy anything, and all they watch is news, sports and HSN.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I'd like to see you back that up with any evidence.

Since randomly posting links on websites are SOOOO much more believable. Here. First post of a google of "are people watching normal broadcast television". I get so sick of people and their "evidence" arguments. Pretty much ANYthing can be swayed to whatever you want it to be. Rather than just pretend to know and disagree, try doing your own research (not really pointed at you, but I see this crap on many many threads).

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ast-tv-viewers-are-54-and-older-yikes/284256/

I have no REAL idea if that article is true, but it falls in line with what I think. I took my assumption from watching people around me and I saw the same thing. It's a much handier tool that relying on some random "survey" as evidence. I know...these days the internet relies on others to show them the way. Sometimes you should observe for yourself.

Younger people get their tv in other ways. The people YOU are referring to are those people in that article. Anotherwords, not the demographic that they want to advertise to. It's a catch 22 for them. The younger (middle to younger) generation buys. The youngest...well, they certainly aren't watching broadcast television as it is broadcast. Of course there are exceptions to everything.

Most of our media (entertainment) is stuck in the dark ages and doesn't want to budge because they made billions off the consumers for decades. Advertising as we know it: TV, Radio, Magazines is on its way out eventually or at least will morph into something new. It will take awhile because the old guard is still in charge, but they are advertising to fewer and fewer people..unless they are advertising on the internet.
 
Last edited:

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
They still don't grasp that many many people do NOT watch "normal" television anymore. (Or normally for that matter). They need to re-establish how their ratings system works. I realize they sort of count some online streaming sources, but for the most part they are missing the mark big time. These days most people would rather watch an entire season / series back to back than sit week to week waiting (that is just one example).

I would assume that TV execs, or at least the guys who actually give them the numbers, are smart enough to factor in DVD sales, VOD sales, and streaming revenues when making cancel/renew decisions. I agree that general live ratings don't mean a ton anymore, but it's still important for selling advertising. Networks used to make all of their money from advertising. Then they added carriage fees. Now it's diversified to actual episode/season purchases and streaming revenue. This all hits the bottom line and helps make the decisions.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Chozen blew huge chunks anyway. You know a show is really bad when even their promos suck.

Legit was GREAT, though. Another good one bites the dust.

yep, loved Legit, was really funny, but it also had another element to it that I can't really describe, that I liked.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Just tried watching some of the Bad Teacher before deleting it. Oh wow...managing about 2 minutes of the first ep and cleared the series from the drive. Horrid, only 2nd show of the last 2 years that I tried watching and wiped out that quickly.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I would assume that TV execs, or at least the guys who actually give them the numbers, are smart enough to factor in DVD sales, VOD sales, and streaming revenues when making cancel/renew decisions. I agree that general live ratings don't mean a ton anymore, but it's still important for selling advertising. Networks used to make all of their money from advertising. Then they added carriage fees. Now it's diversified to actual episode/season purchases and streaming revenue. This all hits the bottom line and helps make the decisions.

Agreed at least for most. I don't think they are still factoring in all streaming sales though they may be by now.
 

RaistlinZ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
7,470
9
91
If a show isn't a hit right off the bat it gets cancelled. Just ridiculous. Big Bang Theory was slow to find an audience when it first came out, and that turned out well. Execs don't want to give anything a chance anymore.

What's worse is they cancel one show, then debut another show almost exactly like it targeting the same audience, sometimes even using the same actors from the previously cancelled show.

New Girl (Daman Wayans)
Happy Endings (Damon Wayans)
Don't Trust the B__ in Apt. 23 (James Van Der Beek)
Friends with Better Lives (James Van Der Beek)

 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
If a show isn't a hit right off the bat it gets cancelled. Just ridiculous. Big Bang Theory was slow to find an audience when it first came out, and that turned out well. Execs don't want to give anything a chance anymore.

What's worse is they cancel one show, then debut another show almost exactly like it targeting the same audience, sometimes even using the same actors from the previously cancelled show.

New Girl (Daman Wayans)
Happy Endings (Damon Wayans)
Don't Trust the B__ in Apt. 23 (James Van Der Beek)
Friends with Better Lives (James Van Der Beek)

Don't trust the B was so much better.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,213
671
136
I would assume that TV execs, or at least the guys who actually give them the numbers, are smart enough to factor in DVD sales, VOD sales, and streaming revenues when making cancel/renew decisions. I agree that general live ratings don't mean a ton anymore, but it's still important for selling advertising. Networks used to make all of their money from advertising. Then they added carriage fees. Now it's diversified to actual episode/season purchases and streaming revenue. This all hits the bottom line and helps make the decisions.

My understanding has always been that most network stations buy their content, so while DVD and VOD sales help the creators it doesn't do too much for the network's bottom line. In order to get to the point where you can afford to make the show in the first place you need someone to agree to buy episodes. Most shows are done week to week with maybe a a episode padding there isn't much room to create enough content for DVDs if it gets dropped because of low ratings. Even then, none of those sales really do much for the networks that are paying to air the shows.

If a show isn't a hit right off the bat it gets cancelled. Just ridiculous. Big Bang Theory was slow to find an audience when it first came out, and that turned out well. Execs don't want to give anything a chance anymore.

What's worse is they cancel one show, then debut another show almost exactly like it targeting the same audience, sometimes even using the same actors from the previously cancelled show.
<snip>

I can't really speak to the debuting one show just like the one they cancelled other than to point out that almost ALL entertainment has been blended down the lowest bland non-offensive crap. Look at music or movies and you'll see shades of the same shit being marketed. Entertainment is a business that thinks it's cracked the code on safe sells.

On the other topic of allowing a show to grow it's audience... Most networks can't afford to allow that to happen because it risks another network getting that viewer. Networks go off the important number of who's watching it live at that moment and sitting through commercials. If everyone wasn't watching the commercials then we'd have no TV as that's the only way networks recoup their costs. As I pointed out DVD sales don't mean crap the local NBC that's rebroadcasting content in some odd small town. While streaming has been changing the way some things are being done, the big money is still from networks buying content and selling commercials to pay for it.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
My understanding has always been that most network stations buy their content, so while DVD and VOD sales help the creators it doesn't do too much for the network's bottom line. In order to get to the point where you can afford to make the show in the first place you need someone to agree to buy episodes. Most shows are done week to week with maybe a a episode padding there isn't much room to create enough content for DVDs if it gets dropped because of low ratings. Even then, none of those sales really do much for the networks that are paying to air the shows.



I can't really speak to the debuting one show just like the one they cancelled other than to point out that almost ALL entertainment has been blended down the lowest bland non-offensive crap. Look at music or movies and you'll see shades of the same shit being marketed. Entertainment is a business that thinks it's cracked the code on safe sells.

On the other topic of allowing a show to grow it's audience... Most networks can't afford to allow that to happen because it risks another network getting that viewer. Networks go off the important number of who's watching it live at that moment and sitting through commercials. If everyone wasn't watching the commercials then we'd have no TV as that's the only way networks recoup their costs. As I pointed out DVD sales don't mean crap the local NBC that's rebroadcasting content in some odd small town. While streaming has been changing the way some things are being done, the big money is still from networks buying content and selling commercials to pay for it.

Which brings me back to my original point. Much of it has to be having an impact and affecting the longevity of new shows. Peoples habits and wants are changing. They still want quality shows, but they want them on their own time and in their own way...and more than likely without commercials.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,213
671
136
Which brings me back to my original point. Much of it has to be having an impact and affecting the longevity of new shows. Peoples habits and wants are changing. They still want quality shows, but they want them on their own time and in their own way...and more than likely without commercials.

While I don't disagree with you in idea, I'm not sure I follow you all the way. The networks that air the shows locally are the real money. They're buying that show to air and put commercials in it. Without them TV would be too expensive to make, at least in the bulk we consume. While Netflix and Amazon are making good shows, with Netflix releasing them all at once, they're only making a few shows here and there. No where near enough to sustain the rate we consume shows. I also would point out, that the number of TV owners really dwarfs the number of people with streaming services. That's still way too much money to just drop because a lot of people want to binge on a show. While I'm very interested in seeing where we're going marketwise, we're still a long ways off from making the massive changes to how TV is made.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
While I don't disagree with you in idea, I'm not sure I follow you all the way. The networks that air the shows locally are the real money. They're buying that show to air and put commercials in it. Without them TV would be too expensive to make, at least in the bulk we consume. While Netflix and Amazon are making good shows, with Netflix releasing them all at once, they're only making a few shows here and there. No where near enough to sustain the rate we consume shows. I also would point out, that the number of TV owners really dwarfs the number of people with streaming services. That's still way too much money to just drop because a lot of people want to binge on a show. While I'm very interested in seeing where we're going marketwise, we're still a long ways off from making the massive changes to how TV is made.

We're not talking about quite the same thing. I'm not referring to shows that Amazon or Netflix create, just what they stream via seasons of network television.

I guess to reiterate, what I mean is their main (wishful) target demographics are not watching broadcast television live, and with commercials. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying it is where more and more people are going and it seems like that could be also playing into the "low" ratings that shows are getting the last few years that quickly get ousted and something new brought in.

I suppose one could argue that Breaking Bad had no problems (for example) so there definitely is a market...but I'm not sure how that would have done on a major network.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,213
671
136
We're not talking about quite the same thing. I'm not referring to shows that Amazon or Netflix create, just what they stream via seasons of network television.

I guess to reiterate, what I mean is their main (wishful) target demographics are not watching broadcast television live, and with commercials. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying it is where more and more people are going and it seems like that could be also playing into the "low" ratings that shows are getting the last few years that quickly get ousted and something new brought in.

I suppose one could argue that Breaking Bad had no problems (for example) so there definitely is a market...but I'm not sure how that would have done on a major network.

Their target demo is doing both. They're watching it live and streaming it. I'm pretty sure, though I would have to do some digging, that the numbers of live viewers still greatly outnumbers the members of Netflix. More people watch it live via the network broadcast than watch it via streaming. I believe that's why we're not seeing more of a shift into streaming only shows. It's still a massive paycut for most of those creators.

I will say I agree that tivoish services and the availability of streaming stuff could be playing an effect on TV numbers, it just sounds a bit like we disagree on the amount that shift is causing. I would be more inclined to say people are getting spoiled on well thought out and well done TV shows like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones. The normal cop drama isn't in that ballpark. Sitcoms will always be stupid zoning to material though, the more successful the sitcom the more generic it becomes.. though "safe" would be the better word.
 
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