2013 Ford Focus ST

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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Why wouldnt Ford just do a US variant of the RS?

They would have a really hard time selling a $35k+ car that performs significantly worse than a Mustang GT for one. The RS is kind of cool, but at the same time sort of idiotic. At direct exchange rates, it would actually tip the scales at $50k+, and even calculating the VAT and looking at the prices of roughly equal non-turbo Foci in US vs. UK to estiumate price, it would be at least $43k base.

Ford can get away with that with limited run vehicles in other countries where small cars aren't as looked down on, where FWD is even more typical, where cheap RWD performance cars aren't available as competition, and where the Ford brand is held in higher regard. Ford can't do it here. Even the ST is a stretch. They will probably sell 1 ST for every 100-150 normal Focus here in the states. It's a tough sell when the buyer looks over in the same dealership at a V6 Mustang that just obliterates the ST in performance for the same or less money. And for those that don't care about performance but want the hatch/compact look, they will get the titanium or SES instead.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Hell, as far as I can tell, the Focus RS is actually slower than the Mustang V6, let alone the GT.

note : I own a Focus and like it quite well. One of the best cars I've ever owned, stone cold reliable and insanely good fuel economy/value.
 

Monster_Munch

Senior member
Oct 19, 2010
873
1
0
I really want one. It has the perfect mix of performance and economy. I think they're a bit boring to look at compared to the last model though.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
Eh, the ST is going to be rarely cross shopped with a Mustang. People buying the ST want 4 doors and a compact nimble car. They aren't buying for 0-60 time.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
The Mustang V6 is very nimble with the perf pack, and those Recaro leather seats look nice, but I agree that cross shopping will be rare.

Of course, real Americans should want a quick, nimble, RWD car with a manual trans and good fuel economy. :biggrin:
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,952
16,210
126
Too rich for my blood at $30k. That's before taxes and fees. I really need to take a trip to Buffalo next time I buy a car. Bloody thing is $6000 cheaper down there sticker price. That and I need to learn how to drive manual first.

I drove a car back from Peoria, IL.... Avoid Buffalo, prices are ridiculous there because of the Canadians.

edit: actually, buying new might be less of an issue at Buffalo.

US used car market is crazy right now. When I bought the 06 E350 4Matic it was 23k US for a 3 year old with 24k mi. Now a 3 year old E350 4Matic is 40k. And the car msrp came down yet the used car is a lot more expensive.
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
The Mustang V6 is very nimble with the perf pack, and those Recaro leather seats look nice, but I agree that cross shopping will be rare.

Of course, real Americans should want a quick, nimble, RWD car with a manual trans and good fuel economy. :biggrin:

So... a BRZ/FRS or Miata? :awe:
 

Riverhound777

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2003
3,360
61
91
So... a BRZ/FRS or Miata? :awe:

No room in the back. I'm tired of not being able to fit stuff in my car. The other day I went to Home Depot and picked up some adirondack chairs that were on sale, but when I got them out to my car I couldn't fit them, had to return them. I don't have much access to a truck either, and don't want to buy one. A BRZ might be nice down the road when I can afford and have room for multiple cars, but for having only one, the ST will be nice.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,952
16,210
126
No room in the back. I'm tired of not being able to fit stuff in my car. The other day I went to Home Depot and picked up some adirondack chairs that were on sale, but when I got them out to my car I couldn't fit them, had to return them. I don't have much access to a truck either, and don't want to buy one. A BRZ might be nice down the road when I can afford and have room for multiple cars, but for having only one, the ST will be nice.

MB E63 Wagon is the answer :biggrin:
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
No room in the back. I'm tired of not being able to fit stuff in my car. The other day I went to Home Depot and picked up some adirondack chairs that were on sale, but when I got them out to my car I couldn't fit them, had to return them. I don't have much access to a truck either, and don't want to buy one. A BRZ might be nice down the road when I can afford multiple cars, but for having only one, the ST will be nice.

I agree, that's why I have a Mazdaspeed3. Even with the hatch space I think I'm still going to get a ~1000lb capacity utility trailer one of these years.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
No room in the back. I'm tired of not being able to fit stuff in my car. The other day I went to Home Depot and picked up some adirondack chairs that were on sale, but when I got them out to my car I couldn't fit them, had to return them. I don't have much access to a truck either, and don't want to buy one. A BRZ might be nice down the road when I can afford and have room for multiple cars, but for having only one, the ST will be nice.

You know they rent trucks at Home Depot.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
So... a BRZ/FRS or Miata? :awe:

Yeah, but they aren't likely to be parked near a Focus ST at the dealer where a shopper might wander over...

How quick are those stock compared to the Mustang V6?
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Yeah, but they aren't likely to be parked near a Focus ST at the dealer where a shopper might wander over...

How quick are those stock compared to the Mustang V6?

BRZ/FRS and Miata are slower in a straight line, but more nimble and considerably lighter. Just a different set of compromises.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
The Mustang V6 can be pretty impressive on a skidpad at .95, but it does weigh about 600 pounds more than a BRZ...
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
The Mustang V6 can be pretty impressive on a skidpad at .95, but it does weigh about 600 pounds more than a BRZ...

Skid pad numbers are nearly worthless, they're too dependant on the pad's surface condition, the test condition, and the tire that happens to come OE on the car. The only skid pad numbers that are worth anything are from TireRack tests, or similar, where several tires were tested on the same pad, under the same conditions, with the same experienced group of drivers. And these tests are generally only done to test the tire, not the vehicle. Tires are wear items, so the quoted skid pad number will change as the owner changes tires.

The lower CG of the BRZ/FRS/Miata, independent rear suspension, lower weight, and more even weight distribution will make them feel different on a day-to-day basis, more so if you're an enthusiast and push your car hard.

At the end of the day they're all good cars, it just depends on what qualities and features you want.

Not to get too side-tracked...
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Skid pad numbers are nearly worthless, they're too dependant on the pad's surface condition, the test condition, and the tire that happens to come OE on the car. The only skid pad numbers that are worth anything are from TireRack tests, or similar, where several tires were tested on the same pad, under the same conditions, with the same experienced group of drivers. And these tests are generally only done to test the tire, not the vehicle. Tires are wear items, so the quoted skid pad number will change as the owner changes tires.

The lower CG of the BRZ/FRS/Miata, independent rear suspension, lower weight, and more even weight distribution will make them feel different on a day-to-day basis, more so if you're an enthusiast and push your car hard.

At the end of the day they're all good cars, it just depends on what qualities and features you want.

Not to get too side-tracked...

Or too defensive...
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Or too defensive...

Hehe, I just have my opinions, and I prefer to show my reasoning for those opinions rather than make a statement without showing any thought. Skid pad testing happens to be one of those paper-racer-stats that bugs me a little bit
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Hehe, I just have my opinions, and I prefer to show my reasoning for those opinions rather than make a statement without showing any thought. Skid pad testing happens to be one of those paper-racer-stats that bugs me a little bit

:thumbsup: That and Nurbugring lap times.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
So now we've just got Jules trolling us for not driving boring cars and riding liter bikes for our kicks?

What the shit is going on here. Please just stay OUT of car threads.

Please blow me.

I've contributed a lot more useful information to this thread than you just did.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
BRZ/FRS and Miata are slower in a straight line, but more nimble and considerably lighter. Just a different set of compromises.

I'd re-qualify that as a loooooot slower in a straight line, but arguably a lot more fun to drive on really twisty roads. On a track where you can get some pretty good speed with good sweepers and such, I think power trumps the lightweights though. And the reverse with AutoX and much slower, more techinical tracks or roads where you literally have to drop to sub-20mph speeds around some curves.

Given a choice and having to stay stock, the Mustang V6 is really hard to argue against. If one opens the doors to mods, Miata is absolutely stellar. Get those suckers to ~250hp with better wheels/tires/susp/brakes (not really all that expensive all things considered), and you have imho one of the best vehicles on earth.

BRZ/FRS I'm still apprehensive about. At this point I'd only consider one with an EJ25 swap like Toyota or Subaru did to show off the platform with that 600hp race version. I found it somewhat funny that they basically admitted the stock motor was nowhere near capable of handling a high level of power, but whatever.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
The latest issue of Road & Track has a comparo between the Focus ST, the Mazdaspeed 3 and the VW GTI.

The Focus won. Oh, and they recorded a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds for the Focus ST.
 
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