2016 NCAA FB Regular Season

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I never said anything about erasing the college from the map.

The football program needs to go, and the culture of denial and rape acceptance that flowered there for 30 years, and even after it was exposed, among the die-hard brainwashed dumbshit fans that still defend rape enabler Joe Paterno and his bullshit criminal legacy.

Plenty of fine universities have simply axed their useless football programs and moved on fine with their real academic mission. Look at U Chicago--an excellent school that had a championship football program (and the first ever Heisman winner), that at one point in the 50s, 60s?, was like "fuck it--sports at this level is bullshit. we're a school."

They aren't having any funding or enrollment issues. Athletics anywhere brings in ~$0 to the actual school. Compared to grants and cash brought in via research and the actual academic mission, giant ADs are a mere pittance, even though there is this backwards notion that some pointless football coach deserves the highest salary in any given state. It makes no sense whatsoever. anyway...I digress.

So is this more that you think collegiate sports shouldn't exist as major programs, or that you truly believe that PSU should be forced to abandon football? I mean, I'm an OSU fan, I couldn't give two shits about PSU save for the fact that a good PSU program is good for the BigTen. But, I just cannot get behind any movement that says all this must lead to PSU scrapping their football program.

Was there major issues? Major decades-long coverups? Was Paterno involved? Yes to all of the above. But all those people were removed from the program and school. I mean, the President and Athletic Director were both canned. The people involved or who covered things up are gone, fined, and/or in prison. PSU did everything they could to clean house and move on. You cannot blame the school or the program, the football program itself did not breed these issues, the people did. It sure as hell seems like some people think the only way PSU can repent their sins is by shutting the doors on the whole school. Now, nothing can truly right what happened to all the victims, but again, the school is not to blame for that, the individuals involved are at fault, and have been punished. Sandusky will die in prison.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,556
146
So is this more that you think collegiate sports shouldn't exist as major programs, or that you truly believe that PSU should be forced to abandon football? I mean, I'm an OSU fan, I couldn't give two shits about PSU save for the fact that a good PSU program is good for the BigTen. But, I just cannot get behind any movement that says all this must lead to PSU scrapping their football program.

Was there major issues? Major decades-long coverups? Was Paterno involved? Yes to all of the above. But all those people were removed from the program and school. I mean, the President and Athletic Director were both canned. The people involved or who covered things up are gone, fined, and/or in prison. PSU did everything they could to clean house and move on. You cannot blame the school or the program, the football program itself did not breed these issues, the people did. It sure as hell seems like some people think the only way PSU can repent their sins is by shutting the doors on the whole school. Now, nothing can truly right what happened to all the victims, but again, the school is not to blame for that, the individuals involved are at fault, and have been punished. Sandusky will die in prison.

The AD is completely separate from the academic institution that is PSU. It is almost unique in terms of major university athletics programs. There is a wall between the two, wherein revenue really does not flow between the two

Again, I am only ever talking about the AD at PSU. I don't think you have read anything I have said, because I am only talking about football at PSU.

Yes, fuck their football program with extreme prejudice (I realize that the entire AD is dependent on Football revenue--but whatever. Maybe they shouldn't have endorsed and covered up child rape for decades.)

There is a very cynical injustice when you look at the type of sanctions imposed on the actions of a school like SMU compared to those of PSU. Does the NCAA have no teeth? absolutely, because: $$$$.

College football is a fine diversion, but really nothing more than that. I thoroughly enjoyed getting piss-drunk and pulling for my team like an idiot, while I was in college, but I do think large swaths of so-called adults that are well-past their college age need to get their priorities straight. Not to stop enjoying these games and be a fan, but to understand the non-controversial idea that there simply can be no acceptance for what the PSU football program did, and that no punishment has yet been in any sufficient for their crimes. I believe that any quarter given to that program for any reason represents a person with broken priorities in life.

If your understanding of the value of PSU is somehow irretrievably tied to football and the success thereof, then it sounds like you also have your priorities screwed. Football, in comparison to the actual university and the non-athletics revenue that it generates and operates on, is completely irrelevant. The university would be perfectly fine without it.

Oh--I don't mean to go this OT, btw.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
The AD is completely separate from the academic institution that is PSU. It is almost unique in terms of major university athletics programs. There is a wall between the two, wherein revenue really does not flow between the two

Again, I am only ever talking about the AD at PSU. I don't think you have read anything I have said, because I am only talking about football at PSU.

Yes, fuck their football program with extreme prejudice (I realize that the entire AD is dependent on Football revenue--but whatever. Maybe they shouldn't have endorsed and covered up child rape for decades.)

There is a very cynical injustice when you look at the type of sanctions imposed on the actions of a school like SMU compared to those of PSU. Does the NCAA have no teeth? absolutely, because: $$$$.

College football is a fine diversion, but really nothing more than that. I thoroughly enjoyed getting piss-drunk and pulling for my team like an idiot, while I was in college, but I do think large swaths of so-called adults that are well-past their college age need to get their priorities straight. Not to stop enjoying these games and be a fan, but to understand the non-controversial idea that there simply can be no acceptance for what the PSU football program did, and that no punishment has yet been in any sufficient for their crimes. I believe that any quarter given to that program for any reason represents a person with broken priorities in life.

If your understanding of the value of PSU is somehow irretrievably tied to football and the success thereof, then it sounds like you also have your priorities screwed. Football, in comparison to the actual university and the non-athletics revenue that it generates and operates on, is completely irrelevant. The university would be perfectly fine without it.

Oh--I don't mean to go this OT, btw.

Meh, the AD has been fixed. No, football is not necessary, but... I think that's a little extreme IMHO. The AD covered things up, and the entire AD was shuffled and thrown out as a result. The President of the school itself was forced to retire. I think they're getting their house in order, and trying to move past this. Again, this isn't the school's fault, nor is it the Athletic Department's fault in whole... it was the fault of persons within the department.

Was the school's/program's punishment severe enough? Perhaps not. Should they be forced to abandon football as a punishment? I don't agree with that at all. Like or dislike college football programs as they are, I just cannot get behind that as a valid punishment.
 

ciba

Senior member
Apr 27, 2004
812
0
71
I think they're getting their house in order, and trying to move past this. Again, this isn't the school's fault, nor is it the Athletic Department's fault in whole... it was the fault of persons within the department.

They continue to deny their misdeeds (or at least were as recently as October).
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Meh, the AD has been fixed. No, football is not necessary, but... I think that's a little extreme IMHO. The AD covered things up, and the entire AD was shuffled and thrown out as a result. The President of the school itself was forced to retire. I think they're getting their house in order, and trying to move past this. Again, this isn't the school's fault, nor is it the Athletic Department's fault in whole... it was the fault of persons within the department.

.

Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit. School President knew and the AD knew. Both were involved in the cover-up and in allowing Sandusky to go on molesting more kids. That makes it the school's fault and the Athletic Departments fault too. When the top people know and participate and allow their underlings to continue doing it then it can't be passed off as the problem with a few underlings. The entire program was rotten and the entire program should have gotten the death penalty.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit. School President knew and the AD knew. Both were involved in the cover-up and in allowing Sandusky to go on molesting more kids. That makes it the school's fault and the Athletic Departments fault too. When the top people know and participate and allow their underlings to continue doing it then it can't be passed off as the problem with a few underlings. The entire program was rotten and the entire program should have gotten the death penalty.

Never said it was a problem of underlings. And I already stated it was a problem of top-level people. They and their underlings knew, but not the whole school, not the entire AD. And those who knew are gone.

I am not at all trying to minimize the damage and harm that these people caused, but to call for the dismantling of the program seems a bit ridiculous. It accomplishes nothing except for providing joy through schadenfreude. Ride the school hard, use sanctions, and continually investigate them to make sure things have been cleaned up.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,556
146
I am not at all trying to minimize the damage and harm that these people caused, but to call for the dismantling of the program seems a bit ridiculous. It accomplishes nothing except for providing joy through schadenfreude. Ride the school hard, use sanctions, and continually investigate them to make sure things have been cleaned up.

You're minimizing the very clear message to all schools that real crimes aren't nearly as important as preserving football legacy.

These were not typical sports or football violations, to be punished as you would a program that violates stupid NCAA rules. These were very real crimes that went on for decades for the sake of the glorious program. It was deemed, by many, that the reputation of this program was greater than any crime within it. It's disgusting and completely indefensible--PSU hasn't been punished at all, and when you compare that other programs suffer greater with football violations than PSU did after committing real crimes against real children, you are sending the wrong message.

PSU does not deserve to have a football program--period.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Houston gives the finger to Texas by hiring former Texan, the Major, as their new head ball coach.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
You're minimizing the very clear message to all schools that real crimes aren't nearly as important as preserving football legacy.

These were not typical sports or football violations, to be punished as you would a program that violates stupid NCAA rules. These were very real crimes that went on for decades for the sake of the glorious program. It was deemed, by many, that the reputation of this program was greater than any crime within it. It's disgusting and completely indefensible--PSU hasn't been punished at all, and when you compare that other programs suffer greater with football violations than PSU did after committing real crimes against real children, you are sending the wrong message.

PSU does not deserve to have a football program--period.

I guess we just see this differently.

Criminal matters are not for the NCAA to punish by killing programs. Criminal matters are handled by the justice system, the NCAA should be minimally involved for true criminal proceedings.
This is where things get messy, because you are right, the school should have been punished a bit more severely, but the justice system cannot punish an organization like a school, not so easily at least, but the NCAA shouldn't be metering out the kind of punishment the school needs either. That belongs more in the wheelhouse of, well I'm not really sure. It's not something a regional accreditation organization can handle, unless... perhaps it could be?

Again, the program fucked up, not disagreeing one bit there. And they fucked up in a way that most everyone finds vehemently incomprehensible. But, again, I'm not defending the actions, but the right of the program to exist outside of this controversy. Just because the program was ran by disgusting pricks, doesn't mean the program itself is flawed. The management of said program, and some leadership at the school, is where the fault still resides. And they have been punished, some not severely enough but still handled by the justice system, and the school for when the system didn't go far enough.

Sure, you can see this as a message that if you go this far criminally, the NCAA isn't going to completely erase your program so... let's do it! But, let's be real here, this is a very unique situation that is unprecedented in the NCAA. The NCAA's punishments have typically dealt with transgressions that somehow involved the team, sport, or coaching staff as it relates to the team and sportsmanship. Illegal bribes, paying players, using illegal recruiting tactics, etc. This situation had, ultimately, nothing to do with the teams, and didn't have anything to do with the athletic programs as it relates to sports. This was something shady as fuck happening behind everything, something that wasn't impacting fairness in the sport or anything along those lines. Let me be clear, I am not defending the program here, and not minimizing the impact and scope of the depravity, just laying out the facts of the case.

Think of this like a business. Unless the business itself through all the layers was truly involved in an illegal scheme, they almost always survive when various leadership and management has been linked to criminal activity of any scope. You may find yourself disgusted with the business for the association with these individuals, but the business usually cleans house and distances themselves from the matter, and does everything in its power to prevent it from happening again.

So the same message that other schools may get from this has already been heard loud and clear all across the country: don't get your organization involved with criminal activity, and if your executives do, get rid of them and clean house; or else your whole organization is going to go down the drain.

This is what we have here. Let's face it, when even the President of the school itself gets indicted and is forced to resign, but the school can otherwise go on, that signals the investigation only found a few key individuals covering this up. Yes they may have been at the top, and one ran the entire AD, but the investigation proved that it wasn't every single member of the AD, it wasn't every coach, every assistant to the assistant, every personal trainer. It was a few key who started at one point and continued up the totem pole but skipped all the other underlings along the way. The program wasn't fucked up, the leadership was, the majority of the program was clean and entirely unaware. Those that were aware have been dealt with.

I know it goes against what a lot of people want to believe should happen, but I just cannot in good faith get behind punishing all of the athletic programs. You can argue all you want that these programs aren't necessary for the school, but that isn't even the point.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. We can all agree that the people who most needed punishment have received it to some degree, and that their acts were disgusting.
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
10,706
161
106
Houston gives the finger to Texas by hiring former Texan, the Major, as their new head ball coach.

He's been the OC/QB coach at Houston for the last two years. How is that giving the finger to Texas?
 
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