2018 NBA playoff's

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tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
The point is that it's a dick move to the overall parity of the league and that KD does not have that competitive spirit that you expect a superstar to have.

players don't owe you or your expectations anything, they should do what's best for themselves
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,851
2,807
136
I'm not talking about clutch time stats, I'm talking about creating scoring opportunities for yourself when your team needs it or the situation demands it. Lebron loves to pass and find his team mates which works great for him 99% of the time, but it's that 1% of the time when he either has a mismatch or needs to be selfish and score when his team mates are crapping the bed that he just doesn't quite have. And I get it, it goes against his normal style of play, but he's the best in the world right now, so the expectation to be able to switch mindset/styles is not really out of this world. He's never really had much of a pull up mid-range game, and it wasn't as obvious an issue when Kyrie was with him, but now it's more apparent.

Basically, exactly what KD did last night is what Lebron needs to be able to do in brief spurts.
Guess what, basketball is a team sport. If it was so simple to "just put his head down" and drive for 2 points every possession, LeBron is smart enough of a ballplayer to play 1 on 5. Even when he went off for 50 in game 1, and they were in pretty good shape to steal a win, he needed just a little more from his teammates (or the refs). But that really was the best case scenario of him being selfish at every turn AND playing extremely well in the process.

LeBron has said it many times, KD is more of a natural scorer/shooter than he is and I don't know if it's at all realistic to think LBJ should just do what KD did last night. Again you can argue whether he should be a little more selfish in some situations. But the Dubs will tell you themselves, their job isn't to necessarily limit LBJ, but to make him exert maximum effort to get his offense. Like I said, he's a pretty cerebral player and if given the choice between a low percentage, contested shot vs creating a good shot for someone else, we know how he feels about that.

There's a certain mythology behind Kobe's singular attitude of always taking the final shot and accepting the consequences but like I said, his career numbers show he misses 70% of the time. That's just bad basketball when the opposing team can rule out the other 4 players on the court. I accept the point that the game's greatest players can create a shot under duress, and a lot of players can't even do that. But my point is besides creating his own shot, LBJ can also decide whether a teammate has a better chance of success than his own.

If you want to argue LBJ is not MJ, I'll agree 100% of the time. If you're arguing LBJ should be more like Kobe at the end of ballgames, I just don't agree.
 
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homebrew2ny

Senior member
Jan 3, 2013
610
61
91
Lots of valid points by manly above, LeBron needs to find a way thats best for him and his team to win despite how Kobe or MJ did it. However, I just think he makes some poor choices as to when he should be taking the shot or giving it away.

LeBron is a generational talent, arguably the best in the league and probablly a top 3 of all time when it is said and done. He has a myriad of gifted tools at his disposal, inside and out of the paint. With the game on the line, he needs to be the one taking/making the shot. To be a GOAT, you have to make it happen, period.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
There's a certain mythology behind Kobe's singular attitude of always taking the final shot and accepting the consequences but like I said, his career numbers show he misses 70% of the time. That's just bad basketball when the opposing team can rule out the other 4 players on the court. I accept the point that the game's greatest players can create a shot under duress, and a lot of players can't even do that. But my point is besides creating his own shot, LBJ can also decide whether a teammate has a better chance of success than his own.

I do agree with you but two major things stood out to me at the end of last night's game. One, he basically let Curry force the switch, making Hood have to defend KD on the dagger shot when he should have. Two, he definitely should have taken the last shot yesterday knowing that his entire team has been trash shooting the 3 the entire playoffs. I feel like Lebron's mentally given up at this point.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
Lebron is about to 3-6 in the finals. You know what keeps him from being 1-8?

A sloppy last second 3 pointer by Ray Allen and a complete GS meltdown after being up 3-1, exacerbated by Green's stupid suspension.

He could very, very easily be 1-8 in the finals.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
There's a certain mythology behind Kobe's singular attitude of always taking the final shot and accepting the consequences but like I said, his career numbers show he misses 70% of the time.


 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
Huh? No shit he's thriving, he's a really good basketball player who joined an already historically great team. The point is that it's a dick move to the overall parity of the league and that KD does not have that competitive spirit that you expect a superstar to have. If you don't understand that from my previous posts there's really no point in me saying it again, but KD thriving has nothing to do with anything I've said.
You're wrong. You just don't get it, do you? You're idea of what is best for him is you, not him. Why should he give a damn about the overall parity of the league? He's hell of competitive. You have no idea how hard he works on his game. You are an armchair critic. He's the superstar, grin and bear it or grouse and bear it, it's the same thing.
players don't owe you or your expectations anything, they should do what's best for themselves
Spot on.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
Durant was amazing last night, but the dude has so little pressure on him compared to Lebron. I still can't get over how spineless it was to sign with the Warriors.
All about the Ring. his old team kept on being eliminated by the Warriors so why fight it?
it worked. he got one.
and high % that he's going to get his 2nd one by next week
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
this is hilarious, you guys are basically playing a text/imagination version of fantasy basketball without any of the payoff.

No, the bigger picture you guys are all missing is that we're getting free tacos!

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2...free-tacos-for-golden-state-warriors-win.html

Taco Bell has announced it will be handing out free Doritos Locos Tacos nationwide on June 13 as part of its “Steal a Game, Steal a Taco” promotion with the NBA. During Wednesday night’s game three, The Golden State Warriors defeated the Cleveland Cavaliers 110-102 at Quicken Loans Arena in Ohio. At the beginning of the NBA Championship series, the fast food chain pledged to hand out free tacos across the United States if a team “steals” a game while on the road. Taco Bell plans to honor its promise Wednesday, June 13 from 2 – 6 pm at participating locations across the country.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,419
5,852
136
meh, i thought the cavs had a < %1 chance of winning, but would've like to see them win one

ah well. we'll always have 2016. thanks lebron, now you go put together a superteam somewhere that has a chance of wiping that annoying smirk off curry's face
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
For the first time in my life I too felt pretty bad for LJ as he was walking off at the end of game 4. And I felt a little ashamed as well.

My feelings towards him have definitely bordered on haterish for a while now. I think he deserved disdain for the "announcement" and his behavior afterwards; that was ridiculous. But that seems so long ago now.

In the end he certainly doesn't seem like a bad guy (I can't say that about somebody like Tiger, for instance). He's just really competitive and wants to win at all costs. And being a hater eventually just hurts the person doing the hating.

I'm curious what his next chapter will bring.
 
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pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,675
3,218
136
I didn't watch any of the playoffs except for a few West games early on, bit I can't say the results are surprising. Wish there were more surprises in the NBA to keep it interesting.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
In the end he certainly doesn't seem like a bad guy (I can't say that about somebody like Tiger, for instance). He's just really competitive and wants to win at all costs. And being a hater eventually just hurts the person doing the hating.

I'm curious what his next chapter will bring.
I don't drool for Tiger, his behavior, body language, attitude have offended me greatly many times, but I really don't think he's a "bad guy." On balance he's a very positive person. He's quite sane. The expectations he puts on himself sometimes aren't helpful. I think he's being humbled now. His game is terrific right now except for his putting, which if you think about it is the easiest possible aspect of the golf game to fix. And I think he will fix that and reignite the Tiger-mania. I really don't much care. I'll root for him but won't root against his competitors, a great many of whom are just as interesting to "follow."

Like I said before, LJ is too grim (damn, the man busted his right hand, smashed it in the locker room after game 1... that has to be why he attempted very few 3 pointers the rest of the series). He'd be better off on a team where he's not allowed to take the mantel he's put upon himself. I'm no NBA maven, but I think a good move for him would be the Spurs. Popovich won't allow Lebron to do just anything he wants. Pop's very strong minded and Lebron won't break him.
 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,419
5,852
136
I'm no NBA maven, but I think a good move for him would be the Spurs. Popovich won't allow Lebron to do just anything he wants. Pop's very strong minded and Lebron won't break him.

idk if he would want to do that though, he's run the show for so long. of course maybe he'll realize that's part of the reason why things didn't work out.

he was the one that insisted that management re-sign JR: https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/09/lebron_james_warns_cavs_to_sig.html

so when it came to JR's game 1 gaffe, at the root of it, lebron had only himself to blame.
 
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Gryz

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2010
1,551
204
106
For the first time in my life I too felt pretty bad for LJ as he was walking off at the end of game 4.
I always wanted the other team to win. Not Lebron's team. Always.

Until last week.

When I saw Lebron's face here, I really felt sorry for him.
I didn't think that was possible.
He's maybe not the smartest player in the NBA, but he sure seems to be one of the nicer, friendlier guys.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
He's maybe not the smartest player in the NBA, but he sure seems of the nicer, friendlier guys.
He should lighten up. I think he'll be OK. He hasn't lost his marbles. He'll manage his career. He's non-committal right now, and he should be.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
I was disappointed that Curry didn't get the MVP. He was the best player in 2 of the 4 games, but he did have an absolute stinker in game 3 when Durant clinched the series so I understand the choice.

Not a great year for Golden State, merely a good one. They weren't truly pushed by anyone. The Rockets series will go down as a close one, but once Paul got hurt in game 5 it was over. The worst thing about Golden State right now is they can play a truly bad game and still have a good chance to beat any team in the league.

It's amazing right now to see the Caps celebration alongside the Golden State celebration. You can draw your own conclusions from it but I think Championship fatigue is a real thing and the Warriors will lose next year. On the other hand Rafa Nadal has no problem winning the French Open every single year so who knows?
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,851
2,807
136
I was disappointed that Curry didn't get the MVP. He was the best player in 2 of the 4 games, but he did have an absolute stinker in game 3 when Durant clinched the series so I understand the choice.

Not a great year for Golden State, merely a good one. They weren't truly pushed by anyone. The Rockets series will go down as a close one, but once Paul got hurt in game 5 it was over. The worst thing about Golden State right now is they can play a truly bad game and still have a good chance to beat any team in the league.

It's amazing right now to see the Caps celebration alongside the Golden State celebration. You can draw your own conclusions from it but I think Championship fatigue is a real thing and the Warriors will lose next year. On the other hand Rafa Nadal has no problem winning the French Open every single year so who knows?
It's very difficult to predict the future, but was this the Rox best shot at dethroning the Warriors and stopping them just short of a dynasty? I've always been a huge CP3 fan, even when it seemed his Clippers teams underachieved every year (my take on this was it was the supporting cast, not Chris Paul that held them back). Paul did a lot to exorcise some of his personal demons, but he's 33 and about to receive a massive contract extension that will be an albatross in a couple seasons. Clint Capela fits them like a glove but he's about to be thrown a huge extension that probably exceeds his growth potential. James Harden is a fantastic player and sure-fire MVP, but for some reason I have never been enamored of his game. Harden was taken so often on defense (by Durant) as if the Beard was stuck in concrete; just that alone probably cost them the series.

My point is that if you run it back again, I'm far from convinced that the Rox duplicate their 65 wins and hosting game 7 of the conference finals. As far as creating a super-team, ESPN.com just posted an article about LBJ to Houston and the bottom line is either it won't happen, or the Rox would have to gut their team to do it.

Houston will be well into the luxury tax once they re-sign Paul & Capela, and they will need further growth from Capela and possibly Harden (at least, better conditioning deep into the playoffs). I'm not saying the Warriors are going to 3 & 4-peat, but the only wrench you can throw is if they trade Klay Thompson next March because they know they can't re-sign him. The rest of the NBA better hope KD takes the full super max deal this summer as that all but assures the Dubs will lose Klay or Draymond Green within 2 seasons.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
It's very difficult to predict the future, but was this the Rox best shot at dethroning the Warriors and stopping them just short of a dynasty? I've always been a huge CP3 fan, even when it seemed his Clippers teams underachieved every year (my take on this was it was the supporting cast, not Chris Paul that held them back). Paul did a lot to exorcise some of his personal demons, but he's 33 and about to receive a massive contract extension that will be an albatross in a couple seasons. Clint Capela fits them like a glove but he's about to be thrown a huge extension that probably exceeds his growth potential. James Harden is a fantastic player and sure-fire MVP, but for some reason I have never been enamored of his game. Harden was taken so often on defense (by Durant) as if the Beard was stuck in concrete; just that alone probably cost them the series.

My point is that if you run it back again, I'm far from convinced that the Rox duplicate their 65 wins and hosting game 7 of the conference finals. As far as creating a super-team, ESPN.com just posted an article about LBJ to Houston and the bottom line is either it won't happen, or the Rox would have to gut their team to do it.

Houston will be well into the luxury tax once they re-sign Paul & Capela, and they will need further growth from Capela and possibly Harden (at least, better conditioning deep into the playoffs). I'm not saying the Warriors are going to 3 & 4-peat, but the only wrench you can throw is if they trade Klay Thompson next March because they know they can't re-sign him. The rest of the NBA better hope KD takes the full super max deal this summer as that all but assures the Dubs will lose Klay or Draymond Green within 2 seasons.

I honestly had no idea Houston could play defense like that. I think you could tell that it wiped them out over the course of the series though. They had pretty good match-ups against the Warriors but only if they played a rotation of 6-7 guys. The Warriors flat out wore them out. I think even if CP3 plays the last two games I give the Warriors better than a 50% chance to win both.

Next year will certainly be interesting for the Rockets. I think if they keep their current roster they will have another good shot at the Warriors. Paul, Ariza, Capela, and Mbah a Moute all should be resigned. Anderson is a good player and fits their regular season style but they found out they couldn't play him against the Warriors so his contract just kills them the next 2-3 years.

I don't really think they should add Lebron. I mean if you could just do a swap for Anderson or Ariza then of course you would do it, but that's not how it works out for them. I also don't see Lebron-Paul-Harden working out well. I was surprised that Paul-Harden worked as well as it did.

I think we saw how important Iggy is to the Warriors this postseason. But I think we also saw you can plug in any two players next to Curry/Klay/Durant and have a great shot at a title. Don't get me wrong, I love Draymond Green and Iguodala but the percentages the other three put up teams just can't match.
 

chitwood

Golden Member
Aug 21, 2008
1,207
56
91
Lebron & Chris Paul to the Lakers
then Lakers trade for Paul George

that's my prediction
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
I think Lebron's (and the NBA's) dream scenario would be to have Durant join him in LA.

But I don't see that happening.
 
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