2023 Auto Strike

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,135
18,619
146
senior management really does take on all the risk, it's why they deserve multimillion payouts and retention bonuses if the company goes tits up while workers have to fight for their last paychecks in bankruptcy court.....

And of course a nice golden parachute for when they fuck up then leave the company
 
Reactions: Fenixgoon

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,414
2,678
136
KAP is the Louisville assembly plant. KTP is the Kentucky truck plant in Louisville that is currently walking the pickett line.

The governing statute in Kentucky provides unemployment for both locked-out and laid off workers. If an employee strikes, benefits are not paid. Also, benefits are not paid if an employee leaves their employment because “a bona fide labor dispute is in active progress at the plant where they are employed.”

KAP lays off workers, unemployment benefits disputed
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,250
5,693
146
Yea but according to Ben Shapiro the workers add zero value to the company, it's the owners and management taking all the risk, therefor they should get ALL of the reward. I recall a recent incident where every employee of a fast food restaurant walked off the job, I bet the owner didn't get far taking all of the risk and doing all of the work.

And? Is there some reason you're listening to that little milquetoast twerp has to say on anything? His only expertise is him spouting incredibly stupid opinions that gets people to make fun of him for being so goddamned pathetically stupid about literally everything.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,155
10,840
136
KAP is the Louisville assembly plant. KTP is the Kentucky truck plant in Louisville that is currently walking the pickett line.

The governing statute in Kentucky provides unemployment for both locked-out and laid off workers. If an employee strikes, benefits are not paid. Also, benefits are not paid if an employee leaves their employment because “a bona fide labor dispute is in active progress at the plant where they are employed.”

KAP lays off workers, unemployment benefits disputed
It's what happens in "right to work" states.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z and iRONic

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,997
2,011
136
senior management really does take on all the risk, it's why they deserve multimillion payouts and retention bonuses if the company goes tits up while workers have to fight for their last paychecks in bankruptcy court.....

There is a lot of truth to that. For example my wife runs a small business with 5 employees. She got the loan to buy the building and start the business because she is classified as a "producer". But right now she is two employees down and running with 3 because it's hard to find help and it doesn't matter what management decisions she makes if there's nobody to do the work. She has had to increase wages and benefits to attract new hires which means price increases that are passed on to clients and it's a vicious cycle.
And? Is there some reason you're listening to that little milquetoast twerp has to say on anything? His only expertise is him spouting incredibly stupid opinions that gets people to make fun of him for being so goddamned pathetically stupid about literally everything.

I saw a video on the right side of Youtube about him owning a liberal so I clicked on it
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,017
2,635
136
There is a lot of truth to that. For example my wife runs a small business with 5 employees. She got the loan to buy the building and start the business because she is classified as a "producer". But right now she is two employees down and running with 3 because it's hard to find help and it doesn't matter what management decisions she makes if there's nobody to do the work. She has had to increase wages and benefits to attract new hires which means price increases that are passed on to clients and it's a vicious cycle.


I saw a video on the right side of Youtube about him owning a liberal so I clicked on it
Unless she took out the loan using personal collateral, she still isn't taking anymore personal risk than an employee. Most businesses are LLC's or corporations that protect personal assets if the business goes belly up. So the only assets on the line are the assets owned by the business. In the case of your wife's loan, I suspect it's the businesses building that is collateral, not her pesonal assets like your family home. But I think the point of brycejones comment was the fact that these execuatives, who are losing nothing other than their job, tend to fight and many times recievce Millions in bonuses during a bankruptcy, while the standard employees, who also lost their jobs, never see their wages owed. Translation: execuatives get a big payday for runnig a business into the ground while the actual workers get a big "fuck you"!
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,089
7,274
136
She has had to increase wages and benefits to attract new hires which means price increases that are passed on to clients and it's a vicious cycle.
But wait, I thought it was higher prices that made employees need raises!! You mean they lied?
these execuatives, who are losing nothing other than their job, tend to fight and many times recievce Millions in bonuses during a bankruptcy, while the standard employees, who also lost their jobs, never see their wages owed. Translation: execuatives get a big payday for runnig a business into the ground while the actual workers get a big "fuck you"!
It's why I say:

>> Tie Management pay to labor pay. A defined percentage ... Executive pay cannot exceed labor pay by X percent and if Execs want a raise, they have to increase labor pay first.

>> When a business dies, satisfy debt from the bottom up. The employees and small investors/suppliers are the ones who can least afford to lose.
 

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,997
2,011
136
Unless she took out the loan using personal collateral, she still isn't taking anymore personal risk than an employee. Most businesses are LLC's or corporations that protect personal assets if the business goes belly up. So the only assets on the line are the assets owned by the business. In the case of your wife's loan, I suspect it's the businesses building that is collateral, not her pesonal assets like your family home. But I think the point of brycejones comment was the fact that these execuatives, who are losing nothing other than their job, tend to fight and many times recievce Millions in bonuses during a bankruptcy, while the standard employees, who also lost their jobs, never see their wages owed. Translation: execuatives get a big payday for runnig a business into the ground while the actual workers get a big "fuck you"!

If you own a business and the phone isn't ringing and money isn't coming in the employees still require pay and the lights need to stay on and the monthly bills still need paying so yes there is more risk than an employee. Not making monthly payments to operate the business is not a concern of the employee. Riding the ups and downs is a lot more stressful for the business owner. Every dollar over and above what is required to finance the operation of the business is her profit and taxed accordingly. Every extra dollar given in higher wages and benefits comes out of her pocket.

However that is different than a large corporation that has golden parachutes and a separate management structure that does nothing except spend their time trying to screw the employees to put more in their pockets. I was arguing the same thing, the employees will get fucked, while management will always come out golden. Unless there is a union or some method for the average worker to hold any sway over the corporation, they will continue to get screwed. Thankfully at this point in time many employees have the ability to bargain for better wages and benefits due to the labor shortage, and record profits for many of these businesses. And they should be sticking it to them while they have the power.
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,089
7,274
136
Nobody says management shouldn't get higher pay than employees. That's a given. That's why you're in business. But why can't there be a reasonable limit? Maybe 10 times the typical employee wage. Maybe even 15.

Tens of millions when employees are at $100,000 -$200,000 is entirely unreasonable.
 
Reactions: nakedfrog

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,944
2,172
126
But wait, I thought it was higher prices that made employees need raises!! You mean they lied?

It's why I say:

>> Tie Management pay to labor pay. A defined percentage ... Executive pay cannot exceed labor pay by X percent and if Execs want a raise, they have to increase labor pay first.

>> When a business dies, satisfy debt from the bottom up. The employees and small investors/suppliers are the ones who can least afford to lose.
Commie!!
That will never happen because those higher ups have disproportionate power to create the rules.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,017
2,635
136
If you own a business and the phone isn't ringing and money isn't coming in the employees still require pay and the lights need to stay on and the monthly bills still need paying so yes there is more risk than an employee. Not making monthly payments to operate the business is not a concern of the employee. Riding the ups and downs is a lot more stressful for the business owner. Every dollar over and above what is required to finance the operation of the business is her profit and taxed accordingly. Every extra dollar given in higher wages and benefits comes out of her pocket.

However that is different than a large corporation that has golden parachutes and a separate management structure that does nothing except spend their time trying to screw the employees to put more in their pockets. I was arguing the same thing, the employees will get fucked, while management will always come out golden. Unless there is a union or some method for the average worker to hold any sway over the corporation, they will continue to get screwed. Thankfully at this point in time many employees have the ability to bargain for better wages and benefits due to the labor shortage, and record profits for many of these businesses. And they should be sticking it to them while they have the power.
What does the owner lose when they are a LLC or a corporation? Their personal assets are protected.. You seem to beleive that any profit is automatically the owners.. That is a piss poor business model, and will lead to a failed business. That isn't catagorized as a risk, it's cataogrized as stupidity. The owner, just as any employee should be taking a paycheck from the very start. Any loans that are taken out are on the assets of the business, and very seldom are they tied ot personal assets.. again LLC's and corporations protect personal assets in most cases.

If a small business does not put their their business under an LLC, that is a poor business decision, aka stupidity, and really is not catagorized as a risk. The only risk is the initial investment.. but that still does not give owner's the right to be paid bonuses and such during a bankruptcy. As a bankruptcy generally comes from poor management, or a bad business model. But because of idiology that people have like yourself, the employees actually have more to lose than the owner because of the way the laws and repayment is structured under bankruptcy laws.
 
Reactions: SteveGrabowski

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,414
2,678
136
*UAW members at both Louisville Ford plants REJECT contract offer bump*
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,049
10,829
136
*UAW members at both Louisville Ford plants REJECT contract offer bump*
Damn. Didn't they return to work because the contract was pending? Does this set them back on strike? And I wonder why it was rejected? (Not that those details will be made public, but I'm nonetheless curious)
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,507
26,545
136
There is a lot of truth to that. For example my wife runs a small business with 5 employees. She got the loan to buy the building and start the business because she is classified as a "producer". But right now she is two employees down and running with 3 because it's hard to find help and it doesn't matter what management decisions she makes if there's nobody to do the work. She has had to increase wages and benefits to attract new hires which means price increases that are passed on to clients and it's a vicious cycle.


I saw a on the right side of Youtube about him owning a liberal so I clicked on it
I was more specifically speaking of public companies with their normal run of the mill CEO that wasn't a founder but just an employee.
 
Reactions: nOOky

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,507
26,545
136

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,718
3,121
136
The UAW has learned nothing and intends to strike Ford again. I'd bet that Ford automates as much as they can to remove the UAW from their plants.

"The union says that workers have been without a local contract for five months. The main areas of dispute are health and safety issues, minimum in-plant nurse staffing, ergonomic issues, and the company's effort to reduce the number of skilled trades workers.

Ford said that negotiations continue and that it looks forward to reaching an agreement at the plant."

I don't see a problem here, go UAW.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,438
1,039
136
The UAW has learned nothing and intends to strike Ford again. I'd bet that Ford automates as much as they can to remove the UAW from their plants.
How long would you be willing to work on an expired contract, all while the management continuously ignores your request to fix things that directly affect your health and or safety or using ergonomic design and or layout to reduce your need to go to the understaffed medical department?

6 months? 1 year?

Please don't reply with the usual retort of "If you don't like it you can work somewhere else" "No one is making you work there"

Alot of auto workers do take pride in the jobs they do.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,049
10,829
136
The UAW has learned nothing and intends to strike Ford again. I'd bet that Ford automates as much as they can to remove the UAW from their plants.
The UAW learned nothing when their strikes scored a huge victory for employees? I'm a little confused here. And I promise you, assembly workers and techs are not easily replaced in skill. If you think an engine or vehicle assembled by a new hire is the same as someone working the line for a decade, I have a bridge to sell you..
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,141
4,836
136
The UAW got the biggest deal they ever have and “they learned nothing” what alternative reality are you from?
They sure did and they will also have to pay for it. Look at what happened to the Lightning plant and expansion plans. Ford is looking to cut them out of the company's future. Same can be said for Stellantis who also shed workers right after the contract.

Working for the company is a privilege not a right.
 
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