Discussion 2024 USA Election Thread: Biden and Dems might have problems in 2024 swing states - The Gaza Issue

[MrSquished]

The issue is totally real.

It is also unsolvable.


The primary is going to happen. The votes are all going to happen. What your asking for is a competitive primary, which isn't going to happen.


The reason why is because everyone who has both the resources, power base, and political wisdom to oppose Biden has already noped right on out.



The only way a competitive primary is going to happen is if one of you or your liked minded friends stands up and makes a run for it. And there is nothing stopping them from doing so. They even let Sanders run last time around. Sanders could run this time around. Maybe their is an untapped well of support we are completely missing. Maybe your on to something.

Convince one of your progressive friends or progressive politicians to go for it.


But you cannot expect corporate Dems like myself to do it for you. That is madness. But if you win, we will absolutely support you. We like democracy to.

We've had this discussion before and you are an idiot of the highest order.

I've said multiple times the reason there is no competitive primary has nothing to do with money, It has to do with Biden running and the correct move by Democrat politicians to not primary him. Because that would be a net negative to primary and incumbent who's already declared they're running for reelection. I'm not sure what part of this you haven't understood in the past but please use whatever tools you have available to try to figure it out. Maybe you find some toys you used in preschool to make diagrams or something.

The only way competitive primary were to happen is if Biden and his advisors, of which many are Democrats with plenty of power, had the balls to say you know maybe it's time to pass the torch, great run, but time has caught up with you, and then there would be a non -confrontational primary with a declared nominee.

The issue with Democrats posting here like there is obviously no better choice that's a whole another issue but I won't get into that until you figure the first one out.

 

[Leeea]

We've had this discussion before and you are an idiot of the highest order.

I've said multiple times the reason there is no competitive primary has nothing to do with money, It has to do with Biden running and the correct move by Democrat politicians to not primary him. Because that would be a net negative to primary and incumbent who's already declared they're running for reelection. I'm not sure what part of this you haven't understood in the past but please use whatever tools you have available to try to figure it out. Maybe you find some toys you used in preschool to make diagrams or something.

The only way competitive primary were to happen is if Biden and his advisors, of which many are Democrats with plenty of power, had the balls to say you know maybe it's time to pass the torch, great run, but time has caught up with you, and then there would be a non -confrontational primary with a declared nominee.

The issue with Democrats posting here like there is obviously no better choice that's a whole another issue but I won't get into that until you figure the first one out.

So your asking Biden to just step down?

That is what this is all about?


Well, why didn't you just say that on page 1. Your calling for Biden to step down.


and well, that is a horrible idea. Incumbent advantage, he has done a great job in office, and has a fund raising lead on everyone. His negative numbers seem to have no effect on dem turn out, and 2 of 3 indicators look positive for him. ( high dem turn out, special elections going dem favor, high disapproval of repub candidates when given a name ).

The only person who can fry him is Nikki Haley, and well, the republican base is to stupid to elect her in the primary. The only other serious threat is Trump. And Trump is a wildcard of the first order, with RFK nicely positioned as a spoiler against him.

 

[Indus]

So your asking Biden to just step down?

That is what this is all about?


Well, why didn't you just say that on page 1. Your calling for Biden to step down.


and well, that is a horrible idea. Incumbent advantage, he has done a great job in office, and has a fund raising lead on everyone. His negative numbers seem to have no effect on dem turn out, and 2 of 3 indicators look positive for him. ( high dem turn out, special elections going dem favor, high disapproval of repub candidates when given a name ).

The only person who can fry him is Nikki Haley, and well, the republican base is to stupid to elect her in the primary. The only other serious threat is Trump. And Trump is a wildcard of the first order, with RFK nicely positioned as a spoiler against him.

Jill Stein is a spoiler too against Biden.

I don't know if you've ever read my posts but I'm a very pro LGBT & healthcare issue person. But even I have to concede people are stupid.. and often vote or protest against their own interests..

Case in point:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722699276512559331

And there's enough LGBT folks that're on the anti-LGBT & anti-healthcare train like Peter Thiel, Tim Cook, and others.

 

[dank69]

I think the form of government our forefathers left us with was designed in such a way that the philosophical understandings of those who founded it, their grounding in the explosion of enlightened thinking that was taking place here in Europe, their understanding of burgeoning of the scientific revolution, reason as a product of enlightened education, etc would be best preserved and at the rate of change that was taking place at their time, could best be preserved by a government that was not easily subject to change quick changing mass hysteria or irrational fads, that the people are dangerous to themselves and any alterations in law based on reactions to sudden events would not be able to overwhelm the whole system. We have a government that is hard and thus slow to change. Unfortunately, since Reagan, there has been a concerted effort to make flash in the pan stupidities like modern conservatism a permanent feature of US voter mentality and what took so long to change for the worse is now impossible to quickly reverse.

All the extremes for a passion for change are now bottled up screaming for revolution. One should exercise great care in what one wishes for. The asymptotic nature of the rate of change today presents challenges unimaginable farther back on the curve. The logical mathematical outcome of accelerating change, seems to me, raises the specter of The Singularity.

I read one estimate, 5 years.

One benefit of a quick-changing government that most people overlook is that if things go sour we can quickly change back or correct.

 

[fskimospy]

So your asking Biden to just step down?

That is what this is all about?


Well, why didn't you just say that on page 1. Your calling for Biden to step down.


and well, that is a horrible idea. Incumbent advantage, he has done a great job in office, and has a fund raising lead on everyone. His negative numbers seem to have no effect on dem turn out, and 2 of 3 indicators look positive for him. ( high dem turn out, special elections going dem favor, high disapproval of repub candidates when given a name ).

The only person who can fry him is Nikki Haley, and well, the republican base is to stupid to elect her in the primary. The only other serious threat is Trump. And Trump is a wildcard of the first order, with RFK nicely positioned as a spoiler against him.

This is all very simple - Democrats are not going to enter a primary against Biden because they will lose.

I don’t know why we are even having this discussion as this is blindingly obvious.

 

[Muse]

Biden Administration's new stance to promote PA West Bank + Gaza rule changes things.

For 2024, it's either Biden and pals or the unhinged angry would be autocrat and hangers on. A year to go...

 

[Drach]

Biden Administration's new stance to promote PA West Bank + Gaza rule changes things.

For 2024, it's either Biden and pals or the unhinged angry would be autocrat and hangers on. A year to go...

Link please .

 

[Muse]

Link please .

Link

Blinken urges united future Palestinian government for Gaza and West Bank, widening gulf with Israel. WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Antony Blinken called on Wednesday for a united and Palestinian-led government for Gaza and the West Bank after the war ends, as a step toward Palestinian statehood.2 days ago

 

[VRAMdemon]

If your Biden and the Dems. , you need to stop funding the Israeli military, this is the one big thing that is eroding his support. Israel has enough munitions to do what it feels it needs to do. Possibly support defensive positions like the Iron Dome ONLY. And then give as much humanitarian aid to the Palestinians as possible to which they send distributors and special advisers to the region to make sure any aid or money is not stolen and misused. there have been reports Hamas tried to smuggle out terrorists on humanitarian injured lists and also tried to smuggle in O2 concentrators for their tunnels.

If your the Republicans, MORE military aid for Israel and stop all humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. And then deport all the Palestinians in the USA. Thats it in a nutshell. The party of idea's and compassionate conservatives.

If an equal or greater number of Democrats would turn against Biden for not being sufficiently pro-Israel, then, as a political calculation (which is what this thread is about), his becoming less pro-Israel would be at best a wash politically and quite possibly have a large impact against him. In reality, anything he does about this is going to piss off somebody. Probably anything he does and doesn't do about this is going to piss off a lot of people. Politically, being seen to be doing something you see as immoral for political considerations would backfire.

His Republican opponent(s) have it a whole lot easier. They can just come out for Israel – many of their backers are backing Israel for all the wrong reasons, but they won’t be expecting candidates to spell out why they’re making pro-Israel noises. Many are Christian fundi's anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

The reality is that polling says Biden should support Israel more, not less.

If this is purely a political calculation then that’s the answer.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Do you realize what a fucking moron you sound like?

Get in the primary or shut up. Shut the fuck up you Jackwagon. You're exactly the kind of fucking Democrat that makes the progressive base shudder because you are an elitist entitled prick.

My god you people.

Oh look! and how surprising ...The "moral high ground" Troll Mr Squished taking a complete steamy shit of vitriol and snarl word personal attacks in this thread for no reason other than he didn't like what the other poster replied with - with no personal attack directed at him. There is absolutely reason for this post to exist other than to feed some trolls fragile ego. He cares about "likes" but doesn't care to wonder why many people have him on ignore.

 

[Drach]

Link

Blinken urges united future Palestinian government for Gaza and West Bank, widening gulf with Israel. WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Antony Blinken called on Wednesday for a united and Palestinian-led government for Gaza and the West Bank after the war ends, as a step toward Palestinian statehood.2 days ago

Thank you .

 

[Muse]

The reality is that polling says Biden should support Israel more, not less.

If this is purely a political calculation then that’s the answer.

I haven't studied it deeply, but my impression is that the Biden administration is trying to both support Israel's right to (1) hunt down and eliminate Hamas and (2) advocate for great humanitarian consideration for Palestinians caught in the conflict.

I asked my cousin his opinion concerning goings on in Israel vis a vis Israeli conflict with Palestinians several years ago. He's visited Israel quite a few times. He was succinct and said only "it's a really bad situation." I have often wondered about that statement. It seems to be holding up, unfortunately.

 

[K1052]

Anybody who says that abortion is likely to not remain a salient issue in 2024 is simply not accounting for how totally nuts a majority of Republican politicians are over the issue.

Pundits: Surely Republicans will learn to stop leaping face first into the same political buzzsaw over and over.

Republicans: Hold our beers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1723055891132436783

 

[MrSquished]

Oh look! and how surprising ...The "moral high ground" Troll Mr Squished taking a complete steamy shit of vitriol and snarl word personal attacks in this thread for no reason other than he didn't like what the other poster replied with - with no personal attack directed at him. There is absolutely reason for this post to exist other than to feed some trolls fragile ego. He cares about "likes" but doesn't care to wonder why many people have him on ignore.

I don';t mind calling out dumbfucks when they are dumbfucks. He and I literally had this exact same discussion before, and even others said that saying I need to get up and run in the primary or shut up was a really dumb argument. But he keeps doing it. But then again, you seem to defend dumbfucks, as you have seen no pro-zionism in this thread. Maybe you and Leeea can go to the same eye-doctor and learn how to ready better? Make it a field trip.

 

[MrSquished]

The reality is that polling says Biden should support Israel more, not less.

If this is purely a political calculation then that’s the answer

i mean forget any basic human decency or doing anything right after having supported a horrific foreign policy for decades with Israel. it's a political calculation.

just nasty sick stuff. when democrats are not better than republicans, it is a sight to see.

 

[Leeea]

i mean forget any basic human decency or doing anything right after having supported a horrific foreign policy for decades with Israel. it's a political calculation.

just nasty sick stuff. when democrats are not better than republicans, it is a sight to see.

How dare our leaders do what the people want them to do!

It is almost like they are answerable to their electorate! What are they thinking?!

Maybe this whole democracy thing is a bad idea.



All hail God Emperor MrSquished! His absolute power and glory will show us the way! His most holy inquisition will purge the heretic from among us!

 

[Muse]

i mean forget any basic human decency or doing anything right after having supported a horrific foreign policy for decades with Israel. it's a political calculation.

just nasty sick stuff. when democrats are not better than republicans, it is a sight to see.

Aren't you just the ultimate authority on what's moral and what is not.

@Leeea said it better:

All hail God Emperor MrSquished! His absolute power and glory will show us the way! His most holy inquisition will purge the heretic from among us!

 

[nakedfrog]

Anybody who says that abortion is likely to not remain a salient issue in 2024 is simply not accounting for how totally nuts a majority of Republican politicians are over the issue.

Pundits: Surely Republicans will learn to stop leaping face first into the same political buzzsaw over and over.

Republicans: Hold our beers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1723055891132436783

I do get a little chuckle out of the phrasing there, "the God given rights with which we were born". An aborted fetus isn't born, BECKY!

 

[Muse]

I do get a little chuckle out of the phrasing there, "the God given rights with which we were born". An aborted fetus isn't born, BECKY!

That is the point. I heard this said by my cousin when I met her in her family's apartment in Manhattan. She said it as a matter of faith, as a matter of pronouncing a postulate that she could not prove but felt she had to accept as a premise for her behavior going forward: that a fetus was not a person until birth itself. I was 20 at the time, she about 18. I don't have anything like total recall, but it was one of those moments that sticks in the mind. She turned out to be a principle figure in Planned Parenthood in NYC.

 

[fskimospy]

How dare our leaders do what the people want them to do!

It is almost like they are answerable to their electorate! What are they thinking?!

Maybe this whole democracy thing is a bad idea.



All hail God Emperor MrSquished! His absolute power and glory will show us the way! His most holy inquisition will purge the heretic from among us!

We aren't talking about the sharpest knife in the drawer here, haha. My post had nothing to do with the merits of the policy.

He's just a sad, angry person. I learned a while back he's not worth responding to.

 

[MrSquished]

Aren't you just the ultimate authority on what's moral and what is not.

@Leeea said it better:

Oh stop being an idiot.

I'm not taking an unusual position here. Millions of people around the world including in the US understand the Israeli situation for how horrific it is and how they are just mass murdering people, and have never really stopped, as they have been oppressing the Palestinians for decades in an apartheid state.

I'm not some lone ranger here on my own horse. Plenty of people here agree as well, if you actually read the thread and ingest it.Get a fucking clue about basic world events before you chime in.

 

[pmv]

How dare our leaders do what the people want them to do!

It is almost like they are answerable to their electorate! What are they thinking?!

Funny how you lot (US liberals, and centrists in general) took a very different attitude to the Brexit vote.

 

[fskimospy]

Funny how you lot (US liberals, and centrists in general) took a very different attitude to the Brexit vote.

While I agree that politicians shouldn’t just mirror public opinion I think the issue with Brexit was the vote was very close and the consequences predictable and catastrophic.

Here, the public is very strongly behind Israel so it makes more sense.

 

[Muse]

Oh stop being an idiot.

I'm not taking an unusual position here. Millions of people around the world including in the US understand the Israeli situation for how horrific it is and how they are just mass murdering people, and have never really stopped, as they have been oppressing the Palestinians for decades in an apartheid state.

I'm not some lone ranger here on my own horse. Plenty of people here agree as well, if you actually read the thread and ingest it.Get a fucking clue about basic world events before you chime in.

Get off your high horse. You're offensive, get a clue.