Discussion 2024 USA Election Thread: Biden and Dems might have problems in 2024 swing states - The Gaza Issue

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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,455
7,067
136
Except they dont do it to other "kafirs", only Israelis, their oppressors. Pretty silly to use ISIS as your template for all Islamic peoples behaviors. Hamas is not ISIS, although they are Islamist, their main motivating drive in the conflict is the liberation of their lands. They do employ terrorist actions (like many other terrorist movements regardless of religion), but its not out of religious ideology, its to free themselves from the heavy hand of a brutal occupying oppressor. Is it justified? Nope, no violence is justified in my view regardless of who commits it.

The Zionists (Irgun) employed very similar actions in 1948 massacring Palestinian men, women and children (Deir Yassin) in their ethnic cleansing drive. Their leader Menachem Begin became the PM of Israel decades later. And pretty sure I can fish out all sorts of Torah based texts permitting the killing of Goyim (non-Jewish 'kafirs') to make the same sort of stereotypical arguments you seem to thrive on, but nope, its just stupid.

Umm... you do know they killed other nationalities too right. And it's not just jews.. that were killed.

My wife has been showing me all sorts of videos showing where Thai's who were workers in Israel were massacred!

And there are tons of other religions and nationalaties killed in the name of destroying kafirs!

Don't get high on your own bullshit supply.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,455
7,067
136
WTF, bigoted much?

You can absolutely say that about Hamas, but don't generalize the entire religion.

FUCK YEAH I GENERALIZE THE ENTIRE RELIGION!

Show me any true blooded muslim who does 5 prayers a day say anything good about the LGBT community or protecting us.

They want us all exterminated so yeah they can go to hell for all I'm concerned.

PROUD TO NOT TRUST THOSE WHO WANT TO KILL ME!


Don't agree with right wing media at all but even a broken clock is right twice a day!
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136

View attachment 89884

View attachment 89886


When someone tells you who they are believe em, or you're just like people who don't think Trump is all bad!

They are well known for mistranslating to suit their viewpoint
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
Joshua Shanes, a professor of Jewish Studies at the College of Charleston, explained that the biblical animosity toward the Amalekites stems from what is described as the merciless ambush they launched against vulnerable Israelites making their way to the promised land. The attack leads God to tell Moses to wipe out Amalek. Hundreds of years later, Saul nearly fulfills the command by killing all Amalekite men, women, and children. But he spares their king, who keeps his people barely alive by having a child. Many more generations later, one of his descendants, the villain Haman, goes on to develop a plot to kill all the Jews living in exile under a Persian ruler. The lesson, when read literally, is clear: Saul’s failure to kill every Amalekite posed an existential threat to the Jewish people.



I've heard similar uses of ancient texts even from Buddhists. I doubt there's a religion or other ideology anywhere that doesn't have such traditions they can call on to justify whatever they want to do.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,054
136
FUCK YEAH I GENERALIZE THE ENTIRE RELIGION!

Show me any true blooded muslim who does 5 prayers a day say anything good about the LGBT community or protecting us.

They want us all exterminated so yeah they can go to hell for all I'm concerned.

PROUD TO NOT TRUST THOSE WHO WANT TO KILL ME!


Don't agree with right wing media at all but even a broken clock is right twice a day!

Don't be the assholes you hate. You're being a bigot.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,012
2,284
136
Umm... you do know they killed other nationalities too right. And it's not just jews.. that were killed.

My wife has been showing me all sorts of videos showing where Thai's who were workers in Israel were massacred!
Yes there were other nationalities killed, but in the heat of battle I doubt Hamas were checking identities of who is who or what. Look for a pattern in past terror attacks and not latch onto isolated occurrences. Virtually all their targets were Israelis.

And there are tons of other religions and nationalaties killed in the name of destroying kafirs!
By ISIS or what little remains of it today, sure. By Hamas? Link your sources to that specific assertion. You are basically saying or implying that Israels occupation, dispossession and murdering of 1000s of Pal men, women and children over decades has nothing to do with Hamas actions but rather solely driven into killing anyone who is not muslim.

As your sig states... Never underestimate the stupid part of the population. They outnumber the smart ones.

Yes, I am reminded of that whenever I see your posts.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,455
7,067
136
Yes there were other nationalities killed, but in the heat of battle I doubt Hamas were checking identities of who is who or what. Look for a pattern in past terror attacks and not latch onto isolated occurrences. Virtually all their targets were Israelis.


By ISIS or what little remains of it today, sure. By Hamas? Link your sources to that specific assertion. You are basically saying or implying that Israels occupation, dispossession and murdering of 1000s of Pal men, women and children over decades has nothing to do with Hamas actions but rather solely driven into killing anyone who is not muslim.

As your sig states... Never underestimate the stupid part of the population. They outnumber the smart ones.

Yes, I am reminded of that whenever I see your posts.

Funny.. unlike you keyboard warriors, I actually get out.

Philippines..
Bali..
Thailand..
China..
Burma..
India..
US..
France..
Belgium..
Norway..

What do these countries have in common? They're not Israel but were attacked by Muslims in order to eliminate kafirs.

Now I may not be smart like you and have a degree in religious tolerance but I have common sense even if you don't!
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
Funny.. unlike you keyboard warriors, I actually get out.

Philippines..
Bali..
Thailand..
China..
Burma..
India..
US..
France..
Belgium..
Norway..

What do these countries have in common? They're not Israel but were attacked by Muslims in order to eliminate kafirs.

Now I may not be smart like you and have a degree in religious tolerance but I have common sense even if you don't!

What does that even _mean_? You "get out"? Get out of what?

Generally I find anyone who resorts to invoking 'common sense' is admitting they have no rational argument to offer.

Anyway


 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136
ah the classics


Yes it is a shit state of affairs
Anyways to respond to @Indus

I have no doubt that some subset of Palestinians have unenlightened views about LGBT people. I have no doubt that a subset of every nation or ethnicity have unkind views about LGBT people, but that doesn't justify colonialism or the slow genocide that Israel's government is doing to Palestinians.

It's not at all helpful to anyone in combating homophobia by bad faith weaponizing of human rights discourse to advance the agenda of empire.

Isn't that tactic called 'pinkwashing'?
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,659
12,782
146
Can we just go ahead and say all abrahamic religions and every derivative of them is shit, cancel the whole lot, and go back to arguing and killing each other for rings or fish or shiny rocks or whatever we argued and killed each other for before they came around?
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,455
7,067
136
Anyways to respond to @Indus

I have no doubt that some subset of Palestinians have unenlightened views about LGBT people. I have no doubt that a subset of every nation or ethnicity have unkind views about LGBT people, but that doesn't justify colonialism or the slow genocide that Israel's government is doing to Palestinians.

It's not at all helpful to anyone in combating homophobia by bad faith weaponizing of human rights discourse to advance the agenda of empire.

Isn't that tactic called 'pinkwashing'?

I'm not washing any of their stuff or defending Jews or Israelis. I just simply do not trust Muslims giving their extensive track record of conversion or death and extermination of LGBT!

Christians aren't exactly that much better!
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,455
7,067
136
What does that even _mean_? You "get out"? Get out of what?

Generally I find anyone who resorts to invoking 'common sense' is admitting they have no rational argument to offer.

Anyway



And how often have you heard me singing praises of Britain to justify continuing your extremely rational argument?
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,970
136
While we are on this subject, Israel makes life even worse for LGBT Palestinians

Haaretz Article -


“As a soldier in Unit 8200, I collected information on people accused of either attacking Israelis, trying to attack Israelis, desiring to harm Israelis, and considering attacking Israelis. I also collected information on people who were completely innocent, and whose only crime was that they interested the Israeli security system for various reasons. Reasons they have no way of knowing. If you’re homosexual and know someone who knows a wanted person – and we need to know about it – Israel will make your life miserable. ... Any such case, in which you ‘fish out’ an innocent person from whom information might be squeezed, or who could be recruited as a collaborator, was like striking gold for us and for Israel’s entire intelligence community. ... During my training course in preparation for my service in this assigned role, we actually learned to memorize different words for ‘gay’ in Arabic.”

This is not new to anyone who is familiar with the way the Shin Bet operates and the sometimes despicable methods it uses to recruit collaborators to strengthen Israeli control in the territories. The members of the Shin Bet put a cruel choice before gay Palestinians: betray their people by spying for the regime and risk being cruelly put to death – all in exchange for keeping their secret – or have their secret exposed and be ostracized from their families, exposed to violent attacks and perhaps even murdered.

In practice, the defense establishment takes advantage of Palestinian gays’ “weak point” – their sexual identity. Because of their sexual identity they are allowed to be persecuted, abused and their lives put at risk, cut off from their families and their dignity trampled. Let us remember, too, that as all of this happens, the unfortunate person being forced to choose between a homophobic society and a society that makes use of homophobia has never done a thing to endanger Israel’s security.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
And how often have you heard me singing praises of Britain to justify continuing your extremely rational argument?

Who here is 'singing the praises' of Islam, come to that?

You are the one making gross generalisations. Should I be blaming 'capitalists' or 'Americans' or 'Christianity' on the basis of a laundry-list of countries 'attacked' by capitalists, Americans or Christians?

You seem monomanically fixated on "Muslims" as the source of all evil. The world is a bit more complicated than that.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,709
5,442
136
Can we just go ahead and say all abrahamic religions and every derivative of them is shit, cancel the whole lot, and go back to arguing and killing each other for rings or fish or shiny rocks or whatever we argued and killed each other for before they came around?
No.

It is just like anything else, take the good toss the bad.

Do you really feel -insert X religion here- does not have its own problems? It is not like atheism doesn't have its own problems. Once again, take the good, toss the bad.


Since we seem to live in a probabilistic universe, that probabilistic function is open to interpretation.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,659
12,782
146
No.

It is just like anything else, take the good toss the bad.

Do you really feel -insert X religion here- does not have its own problems? It is not like atheism doesn't have its own problems. Once again, take the good, toss the bad.


Since we seem to live in a probabilistic universe, that probabilistic function is open to interpretation.
Well, atheism isn't a religion... That's like saying 'people who believe in UFOs have problems, people who don't believe in UFOs have problems... same thing'.

That said you actually bring up a good point, all religions are shit so lets just bin 'em all, yeah? Religion isn't necessary for the 'good parts'. It's necessary for the bad ones that are justified with religion, though.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
Well, atheism isn't a religion... That's like saying 'people who believe in UFOs have problems, people who don't believe in UFOs have problems... same thing'.

Atheism isn't a religion. But religion is not the only thing people believe in with insufficient evidence, because they get some benefit (often psychological) from being a believer. Probably humans can't function without some form of 'faith'.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,659
12,782
146
Atheism isn't a religion. But religion is not the only thing people believe in with insufficient evidence, because they get some benefit (often psychological) from being a believer. Probably humans can't function without some form of 'faith'.
Sorry, are you claiming that atheism is something one has faith in? Or that there's insufficient evidence regarding? You can't prove a negative.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,693
2,155
126
No.

It is just like anything else, take the good toss the bad.

Do you really feel -insert X religion here- does not have its own problems? It is not like atheism doesn't have its own problems. Once again, take the good, toss the bad.


Since we seem to live in a probabilistic universe, that probabilistic function is open to interpretation.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods, anything beyond that is something else.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,557
27,861
136
No.

It is just like anything else, take the good toss the bad.

Do you really feel -insert X religion here- does not have its own problems? It is not like atheism doesn't have its own problems. Once again, take the good, toss the bad.


Since we seem to live in a probabilistic universe, that probabilistic function is open to interpretation.
I’m game, let’s list the problems with atheism!

- the music sucks
- ???
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
Sorry, are you claiming that atheism is something one has faith in? Or that there's insufficient evidence regarding? You can't prove a negative.

Huh? I just said "atheism isn't a religion". Did you misread it?

There _are_, however, a lot of things people believe on faith, other than religion.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,659
12,782
146
Huh? I just said "atheism isn't a religion". Did you misread it?

There _are_, however, a lot of things people believe on faith, other than religion.
I misunderstood your intent. Lots of people feel atheism is basically just as much a belief structure as an actual religion. At any rate, I'd question the reasoning behind anyone who actually gets something out of faith. I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong but my initial reaction is something psychological that should be dealt with instead.
 
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