Discussion 2024 USA Election Thread: Biden and Dems might have problems in 2024 swing states - The Gaza Issue

[Brainonska511]

Overton Window.

Universal Paid Healthcare - Technically it should be a pretty common sense center position, but we're not even there and it seems we've given up on it.. so we've moved Center-Right at the very least.

And I'm not stupid enough to just start believe Fox which labels Bernie/ AOC as the most extreme far left communist!

So you're making up definitions, got it. Nothing you've said demonstrates that Democrats are center-right.

Some positions might seem like common sense, but people will start kicking and screaming when you tell them they need to pay for it. And then we get all the other questions: What stakeholders are going to object when you start getting into the details? How are you going to control costs? Are Americans going to be happy when cost controls mean certain things are not covered? How are you going to protect the system from a SCOTUS who would immediately try to kill it, or a Republican that would use certain coverage choices as political footballs?

 

[manly]

Are the center-right Democrats in the room with you right now?

It's clear that Democrats as a whole have become more progressive (ie, moved left) since the Obama years, so not sure why people are obsessed with making this "center-right" claim.

LOL he says he's not stupid enough, but he claims there's no air between "center right Dems" and the GQP? WTF?

Depending on who you ask, Joe Manchin could be called a center right Dem. In the past, others could call Sen. Joe Biden center right. Now everyone knows Manchin is a DINO, but I'd never accuse him of being in lock step with the GQP. Manchin has tons of warts, primarily in fossil fuels, but he ultimately supported the Biden administration's IRA. Name one GQP legislator who did the same, and I'd be shocked.

 

[Brainonska511]

LOL he says he's not stupid enough, but he claims there's no air between "center right Dems" and the GQP? WTF?

Depending on who you ask, Joe Manchin could be called a center right Dem. In the past, others could call Sen. Joe Biden center right. Now everyone knows Manchin is a DINO, but I'd never accuse him of being in lock step with the GQP. Manchin has tons of warts, primarily in fossil fuels, but he ultimately supported the Biden administration's IRA. Name one GQP legislator who did the same, and I'd be shocked.

Exactly. Manchin would be a good example of center-right, and even maybe Biden in the past. No one would accuse Manchin of being a median Democrat. But if you look at the actual policies enacted through legislation and executive actions, it's clear that Biden today is a sort of dark horse who has incorporated many progressive ideas, because the party has moved left.

 

[Indus]

LOL he says he's not stupid enough, but he claims there's no air between "center right Dems" and the GQP? WTF?

Depending on who you ask, Joe Manchin could be called a center right Dem. In the past, others could call Sen. Joe Biden center right. Now everyone knows Manchin is a DINO, but I'd never accuse him of being in lock step with the GQP. Manchin has tons of warts, primarily in fossil fuels, but he ultimately supported the Biden administration's IRA. Name one GQP legislator who did the same, and I'd be shocked.

You just defeated your own argument.. he's a DINO.

What you're mentioning isn't centrist stuff, its corporate stuff and they want government to be hands off.. a form of Libertarianism!

And Biden has given a lot to fossil fuel companies. Don't be in denial that they made out like bandits. They're drilling. This whole we'll start drilling when Trump is re-elected is nothing but a farce for stupid voters!

 

[Indus]

So you're making up definitions, got it. Nothing you've said demonstrates that Democrats are center-right.

Some positions might seem like common sense, but people will start kicking and screaming when you tell them they need to pay for it. And then we get all the other questions: What stakeholders are going to object when you start getting into the details? How are you going to control costs? Are Americans going to be happy when cost controls mean certain things are not covered? How are you going to protect the system from a SCOTUS who would immediately try to kill it, or a Republican that would use certain coverage choices as political footballs?

They're pretty much kicking and screaming right now at Biden.

But he's limited in what he can do.. Scotus is the problem and the only solution is a national divorce. There's no other fix for it in our lifetime.

Red States.. please please.. go away with Trump!!

 

[manly]

You just defeated your own argument.. he's a DINO.

What you're mentioning isn't centrist stuff, its corporate stuff and they want government to be hands off.. a form of Libertarianism!

And Biden has given a lot to fossil fuel companies. Don't be in denial that they made out like bandits. They're drilling. This whole we'll start drilling when Trump is re-elected is nothing but a farce for stupid voters!

Manchin caucuses with the Dems, and he voted for the Biden IRA. You're even dumber than we all thought if you think Manchin = GQP. Virtually none of us Democratic voters here actually likes Manchin; but at the end of the day he stepped up and surprised us all by falling in line.

 

[Indus]

Manchin caucuses with the Dems, and he voted for the Biden IRA. You're even dumber than we all thought if you think Manchin = GQP.

He's more stupid than Sinema.. always calling dems evil and thinking there's a lane for that where he can be president. All he's done is sabotage dem priorities!

 

[nakedfrog]

Exactly. Manchin would be a good example of center-right, and even maybe Biden in the past. No one would accuse Manchin of being a median Democrat. But if you look at the actual policies enacted through legislation and executive actions, it's clear that Biden today is a sort of dark horse who has incorporated many progressive ideas, because the party has moved left.

Hm, what would our European friends say about how left-wing the Democrats are?

 

[Brainonska511]

Hm, what would our European friends say about how left-wing the Democrats are?

Don't ask a "left" European anything about immigration.

 

[Fenixgoon]

White people don't see what the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism is to their daily lives when they hear stuff about "whiteness" and "privilege" every day.

How is that supposed to benefit them in any constructive way?

Because solving those problems leads to better outcomes for everyone.

Tackling white privilege in the context of policing means better policing for everyone.

Tackling white privilege in the context of wealth inequality improves the economic opportunities for everyone.

Let's just take anti-discrimination laws as an example. You're a young, health employee who is suddenly diagnosed with a disease that is very expensive to treat.
Prior to your diagnosis, you did not benefit from anti-discrimination laws. Now, you do benefit because your employer cannot fire you due to the medical costs you incur as part of your employment.

 

[nakedfrog]

Don't ask a "left" European anything about immigration.

I think you've looked past the point being made, you and Indus are maybe using different frames of reference.
Besides, Indus is on board with that flavor of left wing politics, not too keen on immigrants and refugees.

 

[pcgeek11]

Excuse me?

Have you willfully ignored about 24,000 Christian Sharia being evil threads in here just like @pcgeek11 does??

What are you talking about???

 

[pmv]

These muslims are not our friends any more than the Russkies are republican party's friends! Once they get what they want.. they'll turn on us since it's in their nature!

It's in _everybody's_ nature. It's not something specific or unique to Muslims (is my point).

 

[Indus]

I think you've looked past the point being made, you and Indus are maybe using different frames of reference.
Besides, Indus is on board with that flavor of left wing politics, not too keen on immigrants and refugees.

I'm 100% keen on European left (or specifically Finnish left).

Their education and healthcare is the best in the world and totally single payer!

I could make 10,000 posts singing their praises and I'll willingly put up with it's problems if we could implement it here!

 

[hal2kilo]

He's more stupid than Sinema.. always calling dems evil and thinking there's a lane for that where he can be president. All he's done is sabotage dem priorities!

And what state is he running for office in? Think about that.

 

[IronWing]

I have to agree with Indus on the Dems being a center right party on economic issues. Biden has certainly moved to the left wrt to Obama but Obama was to the right of Reagan when it came to economic policy. On social issues, the Dems have moved to the left, better supporting civil rights for all people than they did in the past. Bill Clinton started the rightward (economic) stampede of the Democratic Party and it seems Biden is nudging it slightly back to the middle.

 

[gothuevos]

I wonder who Haley’s supporters will swing to…

They will swing to Trump, duh.

Party over country, remember?

 

[fskimospy]

They will swing to Trump, duh.

Party over country, remember?

So how do you explain the people who voted Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020? It was about 7% of Biden’s voters, which is actually a lot when you consider the numbers involved.

 

[gothuevos]

So how do you explain the people who voted Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020? It was about 7% of Biden’s voters, which is actually a lot when you consider the numbers involved.

That's much less than the third of voters you were speculating about in an earlier post.

And even with that 7%, it was an extremely close election in the battleground states.

 

[APU_Fusion]

That's much less than the third of voters you were speculating about in an earlier post.

And even with that 7%, it was an extremely close election in the battleground states.

It is the end. The end. Trump won. Run for Western Europe while you can. He monitors these forums for people like you. Watching, watching, watching ….


They are watching you. They know your truth. The best and most beautiful truth about you.

Watching, waiting and standing ready

Watching you

 

[nakedfrog]

So how do you explain the people who voted Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020? It was about 7% of Biden’s voters, which is actually a lot when you consider the numbers involved.

You forgot just one thing.

 

[fskimospy]

That's much less than the third of voters you were speculating about in an earlier post.

No, a third of Haley voters would be about that same amount, and that’s what I said. A little more actually.

And even with that 7%, it was an extremely close election in the battleground states.

Well good thing it looks like Democrats stand to benefit more than in 2020.

 

[gothuevos]

No, a third of Haley voters would be about that same amount, and that’s what I said. A little more actually.

Well good thing it looks like Democrats stand to benefit more than in 2020.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765461345808580786

 

[nakedfrog]

Hm, yes, seems legit, an 80 year old white woman that voted for Trump twice is the "median voter".

 

[APU_Fusion]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765461345808580786

They are watching you … they even put a Trumpolini AI CHIP IN YOUR TOOTH. Watching … watching


Yes, you will believe 80 year white women who voted for Trump is median voter. Yes, yes, continue to know the best and most beautiful truth that is Trump.

But know this, we are watching you.

Whispers of Trump loves you, fear the loss, feed the fear, yes, yes our little beautiful, bigliest and most beautiful purveyors of FUd. You will be rewarded


Watching you …. You are a good MAGAT pretending to be libtard. Very good but know we are watching you. Stand ready.