,

[gevorg]

Originally posted by: K1052


Russia's conventional forces are large but they largely lack quality weaponry compared to the US and other NATO nations. They can't even suppress the Georgian anti-aircraft batteries for Christ's sake.

Wow, I didn't know we have here an expert on Russian military and its capabilities.

Georgia has some pretty modern anti-aircraft systems, acquired in recent years from Israel after all the NATO trainings. Take it with a grain of salt, but Saakashvili once even called some Georgian military bases as "NATO grade".

Regardless, Georgians of course are heavily outnumbered.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: gevorg

Originally posted by: K1052


Russia's conventional forces are large but they largely lack quality weaponry compared to the US and other NATO nations. They can't even suppress the Georgian anti-aircraft batteries for Christ's sake.

Wow, I didn't know we have here an expert on Russian military and its capabilities.

Georgia has some pretty modern anti-aircraft systems, acquired in recent years from Israel after all the NATO trainings. Take it with a grain of salt, but Saakashvili once even called some Georgian military bases as "NATO grade".

Regardless, Georgians of course are heavily outnumbered.

The vast majority of it is Soviet era missile systems and so far as I'm aware that's what's been downing Russian aircraft.

Pretty much every time Russian equipment has gone up against its western counterparts it gets thrashed and badly. The usual Russian tactic is to overwhelm with quantity and accept the losses. While still powerful this isn't the Red Army of the cold war where that's practical for a full scale conflict with something the size of NATO.

 

[Mardeth]

The whole situation reminds me of this song. (best game music theme evah!)

Seems like some have illusions about Russia.

 

[Aimster]

Russia is using Su-24s to bomb the Georgian army as well as T-72 tanks.

These are the same toys Saddam had in 1991.

Most of their military spending has gone towards air defense systems/missiles, navy and attack fighters.

Give the Georgian army a ton of RPGs and the Russian invading tank army is good-bye.

 

[senseamp]

Looks like Georgians may be lying through their teeth:
http://www.breitbart.com/artic...0e5p19r&show_article=1

Georgian officials said Russian troops had moved out of South Ossetia into Georgia proper, occupying the city of Gori while Georgian troops were retreating to the capital.

But US defense officials said they were unable to corroborate the Georgian claims.

"We don't see anything that supports they are in Gori," said a defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "I don't know why the Georgians are saying that."

Oh, and from same article, for those of you claiming Russia was planning this

But the official said there was no obvious buildup of Russian forces along the border that signaled an intention to invade.

"Once it did happen they were able to get the forces quickly and it was just a matter of taking the roads in. So it's not as though they were building up forces on the border, waiting," the official said.

 

[CallMeJoe]

edit: hasty post redacted

 

[senseamp]

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=150013

Looks like Georgian ceasefire to me. This is in South Ossetia, so the whole thing about Georgians saying they are out of conflict zone and Russians are following them to outside of Ossetia for no reason is a bunch of bunk.

 

[Mardeth]

senseamp, whats the reason behind not agreeing to a ceasefire and going into Georgia?

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Mardeth
senseamp, whats the reason behind not agreeing to a ceasefire and going into Georgia?

Why, so they can regroup and continue shelling?

 

[gevorg]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: gevorg

Originally posted by: K1052


Russia's conventional forces are large but they largely lack quality weaponry compared to the US and other NATO nations. They can't even suppress the Georgian anti-aircraft batteries for Christ's sake.

Wow, I didn't know we have here an expert on Russian military and its capabilities.

Georgia has some pretty modern anti-aircraft systems, acquired in recent years from Israel after all the NATO trainings. Take it with a grain of salt, but Saakashvili once even called some Georgian military bases as "NATO grade".

Regardless, Georgians of course are heavily outnumbered.

The vast majority of it is Soviet era missile systems and so far as I'm aware that's what's been downing Russian aircraft.

Pretty much every time Russian equipment has gone up against its western counterparts it gets thrashed and badly. The usual Russian tactic is to overwhelm with quantity and accept the losses. While still powerful this isn't the Red Army of the cold war where that's practical for a full scale conflict with something the size of NATO.

Wow, you're an expert on Georgian military too? And NATO? Wow!! Its an honor to have someone like yourself here. Please continue...

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Mardeth
senseamp, whats the reason behind not agreeing to a ceasefire and going into Georgia?

Why, so they can regroup and continue shelling?

And why would they do thta? To give Russia futher excuse for them to completely annex Georgia?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Mardeth
senseamp, whats the reason behind not agreeing to a ceasefire and going into Georgia?

Why, so they can regroup and continue shelling?

To give Russia world support. If you create a cease fire that is broken, those who break it would have our condemnation.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Mardeth
senseamp, whats the reason behind not agreeing to a ceasefire and going into Georgia?

Why, so they can regroup and continue shelling?

To give Russia world support. If you create a cease fire that is broken, those who break it would have our condemnation.

Well where was the condemnation when they were shelling Tskhinvali during their first so called ceasefire? I have yet to hear a western head of state condemn them for shelling civilians.

 

[Mardeth]

I take "details" like that with a grain of salt. So many sources saying so many things. Only reference I can find to that is the Russian commander. Georgia did say it would have a 3 hour ceasefire in order for the civilians to have time to evacuate. Either they broke it, it was never broken or Russia or someone else provoked them to break it.

Anyway, Medvedev has ordered a halt in military operations, if senseamp is right Georgia will regroup and ATTACK!!! If he is right, I will eat my pubic hair.

 

[Pastore]

Here's what I take from the whole thing.

REMEMBER, Ossetia isn't even recognized as an independent country. SO, they are a bunch of seperatists living in a pseudo democracy in the country of Georgia.

Ossetia sends a few shells over to their "border" where Georgian military is setup. STUPID MOVE.

Georgians say "oh shit, no they didn't" and shell the whole fucking city. EVEN MORE STUPID OF A MOVE.

Russia says "oh hey we want to play to!" and wages war against the whole damn country. YOU CAN SEE THE PROGRESSION HERE.

Everyone involved is stupid. Hopefully it doesn't escalate and my country (U.S.) stays the hell out of it.

 

[senseamp]

Told you Russia was not there to occupy all of Georgia. Not only that, but I don't even think they want to absorb South Ossetia.
It's much more useful to them as a permanent thorn in the side of Georgia and NATO than it is as a territory.

 

[dawheat]

If the US wants to maintain influence in this region and in Georgia, we'll need to take action. If we decide to remain out of this conflict, we will be ceeding influence to a country that is certainly no friend to the US. Russia's disproprtionate response is certainly intended to send a clear message to the region.

Georgia's willingnes to be an ally in Iraq should matter to the administration, but obviously getting into a shooting war against Russia is something not undertaken lightly, regardless of the fact that the Russian forces in the region would be decimated.

Why not a half step like keeping Russian aircraft out of Georgian airspace. It would be a straightforward undertaking for the US considering the poor condition of the Russian airforce, and might send a strong enough message to Russia to agree to a ceasefire.

 

[filetitan]

Guys, I am Armenian (connected to Georgia, and let me tell you for years we have watched the news, heard from civilians towards the atrocities that took place by the Georgian military against South Osettian and other such regions. It was about time Russia stepping in and stopped their Georgian criminal president.

Please watch European news, and hear what the civilians report to the media as the crimes that have been committed by the Georgian government.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Told you Russia was not there to occupy all of Georgia. Not only that, but I don't even think they want to absorb South Ossetia.
It's much more useful to them as a permanent thorn in the side of Georgia and NATO than it is as a territory.

CNN story:

Sarkozy said he and Medvedev agreed Georgia is an independent country and that Russia has no intention of annexing it, but Medvedev also said "sovereignty is based on the will of the people" and "territorial integrity can be demonstrated by the actual facts on the ground." "I think that these are some very good principles in order to resolve the problem which has arisen from this very dramatic situation and these principles can be used by Georgia and South Ossetia."

It sounds like the Freedom Loving Russian Peoples are leaving open their options to welcome the Ossetian and Georgian Peoples back into the Soviet sphere.

 

[senseamp]

Things are not always as they sound, especially in that region. Yesterday it sounded like Russia was going to occupy all of Georgia to a lot of people.
Just because Russia does not recognize Georgia's full sovereignty over Ossetia or its right to retake it by force, doesn't mean it will be annexing it. Like I said, a Georgia with active secessionist regions is better for Russia than a stable Georgia without those regions. Abkhazia at least has some nice beaches, but South Ossetia would just be a drain on Russian budget.

 

[jjones]

France: Cease-fire, not peace, reached in Georgia

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: senseamp
Told you Russia was not there to occupy all of Georgia. Not only that, but I don't even think they want to absorb South Ossetia.
It's much more useful to them as a permanent thorn in the side of Georgia and NATO than it is as a territory.

CNN story:

Sarkozy said he and Medvedev agreed Georgia is an independent country and that Russia has no intention of annexing it, but Medvedev also said "sovereignty is based on the will of the people" and "territorial integrity can be demonstrated by the actual facts on the ground." "I think that these are some very good principles in order to resolve the problem which has arisen from this very dramatic situation and these principles can be used by Georgia and South Ossetia."

It sounds like the Freedom Loving Russian Peoples are leaving open their options to welcome the Ossetian and Georgian Peoples back into the Soviet sphere.

Looks like Medvedev changed his mind;

New assault in Georgia despite Russian vow

TBILISI, Georgia - Despite a pledge by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that military action had been halted, Russian troops launched a new offensive Tuesday in western Georgia.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: senseamp
Told you Russia was not there to occupy all of Georgia. Not only that, but I don't even think they want to absorb South Ossetia.
It's much more useful to them as a permanent thorn in the side of Georgia and NATO than it is as a territory.

CNN story:

Sarkozy said he and Medvedev agreed Georgia is an independent country and that Russia has no intention of annexing it, but Medvedev also said "sovereignty is based on the will of the people" and "territorial integrity can be demonstrated by the actual facts on the ground." "I think that these are some very good principles in order to resolve the problem which has arisen from this very dramatic situation and these principles can be used by Georgia and South Ossetia."

It sounds like the Freedom Loving Russian Peoples are leaving open their options to welcome the Ossetian and Georgian Peoples back into the Soviet sphere.

Looks like Medvedev changed his mind;

New assault in Georgia despite Russian vow

TBILISI, Georgia - Despite a pledge by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that military action had been halted, Russian troops launched a new offensive Tuesday in western Georgia.

The article says they were Abkhazian, not Russian troops.
Georgia occupied part of Abkhazia, the Kodori gorge a few months back, now Abkhazians want to retake it while the iron is hot, so to speak.

 

[StageLeft]

Lost track of this thread, but did anybody see mccane say something like "I speak for all Americans when I say that we're all Georgians today." I couldn't believe what a fvcking stupid statement to make, so pointless and pretentious.

 

[filetitan]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Lost track of this thread, but did anybody see mccane say something like "I speak for all Americans when I say that we're all Georgians today." I couldn't believe what a fvcking stupid statement to make, so pointless and pretentious.

He did not speak for me, that fool.