,

[Jimmah]

My wife is working on this atm, gets to stay at work late and all weekend.

Damn Russian invasion messing up my weekend!

 

[jpeyton]

Q: What is a good day to launch a war?

A: When the whole world is busy watching the Olympics instead of news.

 

[senseamp]

Hopefully Russia will restore peace to Ossetia. It's very cynical and stupid of Saakashvili to try to settle old scores while the world is focused on the Olympics.
Russia should follow the precedent set by NATO in Kosovo
1. Bomb Georgia into the 18th century
2. Kick Georgia out of Ossetia
3. Hold Referendums in Ossetia and Abkhazia on self determination
4. Recognize Ossetian and Abkhazian independence

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Dari

Does that really matter? Do you think Western nations, America included, are going to fight and die over what is essentially a local issue, inspite of the international borders? The rule of law may take precedent in our part of the world, but history is a major factor in others.

Why not? We're fighting and dieing in Iraq over what didn't concern us. Even if Saddam had WMD they weren't a threat to the US, they were a threat to Europe, Middle East, Asia. Yet it isn't those countries/areas that are doing the majority of the heavy lifting as it were. No, we're the ones doing most of the fighting, dieing, and paying, so why not one more?

*note, not that I'm in favor of it you understand but your comment made it sound like our leadership actually takes into account who the conflict is actually affecting, which clearly isn't the case*

 

[CanOWorms]

Another European war... yet people on this forum will still say that Europe is a peaceful continent while ignoring the wars and genocides.

 

[lupi]

We probably have a nearby stockpile of tows and javelins that we could drop off in Tbilisi.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Another European war... yet people on this forum will still say that Europe is a peaceful continent while ignoring my incoherent rants about Eurpoe.

:thumbsup:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Another European war... yet people on this forum will still say that Europe is a peaceful continent while ignoring my incoherent rants about Eurpoe.

:thumbsup:

Bad form dude.

 

[AAjax]

Russia today youtube channel for up to date info (from the russian side anyway)

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: Dari

Does that really matter? Do you think Western nations, America included, are going to fight and die over what is essentially a local issue, inspite of the international borders? The rule of law may take precedent in our part of the world, but history is a major factor in others.

Why not? We're fighting and dieing in Iraq over what didn't concern us. Even if Saddam had WMD they weren't a threat to the US, they were a threat to Europe, Middle East, Asia. Yet it isn't those countries/areas that are doing the majority of the heavy lifting as it were. No, we're the ones doing most of the fighting, dieing, and paying, so why not one more?

*note, not that I'm in favor of it you understand but your comment made it sound like our leadership actually takes into account who the conflict is actually affecting, which clearly isn't the case*

we went to iraq for oil.

 

[senseamp]

This war started right after US "military advisers" finished training Georgian troops. The US is being reckless in a very volatile region. The status quo of de facto independence for those enclaves was not perfect, but better than the alternative, which will be demonstrated to Georga very soon.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Dari


we went to iraq for oil.

Obviously not or we'd have taken it by now and be pumping into our own tankers We're apparently planning on giving it to the Iraqi state for them to sell it back to us while we continue to pay to rebuild their infrastructure at our own expense.

All under the guise of 'Oh noes, Saddam has WMD and might hurt someone so lets spend a Trillion dollars and 5k+ soldiers lives and go stop him!", when the reality was that even if he HAD WMD's he wouldn't have been a threat to *US*

We didn't go over there for the oil - we went so GWB could say he finished what Dad started and so that the Repubs could pump money into the Defense Deptartment and make money coming and going: cash in on the Def. Dept budget with their contractor buddies AND on the run up in oil prices, both of which are shouldered by the American taxpayer.

As to how this relates to the Russian situation, I sincerely hope we're not involved in any way and that we DON"T get involved at all - its none of our business

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Another European war... yet people on this forum will still say that Europe is a peaceful continent while ignoring the wars and genocides.

What are you rambling on about now? Who exactly argued that 20th century Europe was more peaceful than North America with regard to wars?

 

[fallenangel99]

I wonder whether NATO will step in and help/assist Georgia... should be interesting.

 

[KIRBYEE]

.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: senseamp
This war started right after US "military advisers" finished training Georgian troops. The US is being reckless in a very volatile region. The status quo of de facto independence for those enclaves was not perfect, but better than the alternative, which will be demonstrated to Georga very soon.

What are you going on about? U.S. Soldiers were involved in an excercise with Georgian, Armenian and Ukrainian troops (another nation, as well - though I forget). It's a joint exercise. We have joint exercises with the Chinese, too.

Why did you quote "military advisors" and state that the U.S. was training the Georgians? What are you suggesting, exactly?

 

[OCGuy]

This is no bueno folks....


BTW: It only took a few posts for someone to blame the US for it. Some people are sad.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
This is no bueno folks....


BTW: It only took a few posts for someone to blame the US for it. Some people are sad.

Don't you wonder who will be supplying/selling the weapons that the Geogians would need to fight of the Russians. Just a thought.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: digiram

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
This is no bueno folks....


BTW: It only took a few posts for someone to blame the US for it. Some people are sad.

Don't you wonder who will be supplying/selling the weapons that the Geogians would need to fight of the Russians. Just a thought.

Apparently you arent familiar with how proxy wars always have/will work. It doesnt mean that we are at fault for it. Holy smokes....

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: senseamp
This war started right after US "military advisers" finished training Georgian troops. The US is being reckless in a very volatile region. The status quo of de facto independence for those enclaves was not perfect, but better than the alternative, which will be demonstrated to Georga very soon.

What are you going on about? U.S. Soldiers were involved in an excercise with Georgian, Armenian and Ukrainian troops (another nation, as well - though I forget). It's a joint exercise. We have joint exercises with the Chinese, too.

Why did you quote "military advisors" and state that the U.S. was training the Georgians? What are you suggesting, exactly?

Military exercises end and immediately after that, Georgians launch this adventure, and start shelling a city full of civilians from the exact base where they held the military exercises. Either Saakashvili is acting under explicit US support, or he is putting the US into an uncomfortable situation.

 

[ranmaniac]

The US has been backing Islamic Chechen terrorists, and a has given asylum to one of the major Chechen terrorist leaders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3542560.stm

The US has a history of using Al Qaeda like terrorist groups, from the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80s, in Kosovo, and using Kurdish terrorists to attack Iran. The War on Terror is a joke when the US continues to support radical Islamic terrorists. Now the US media is trying to portray Russia as the aggressor when it was Georgia who attacked Russian peacekeepers, and NATO continues to try to put ABM systems in Poland, and in former Soviet republics.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.../georgia_south_ossetia

 

[Genx87]

3rd page and here comes it is United States fault two countries half a world apart are fighting.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Genx87
3rd page and here comes it is United States fault two countries half a world apart are fighting.

If Saturn invaded Jupiter, the hippes would invade the thread saying we did it.


By the way, the seriousness of this situation is grave.

 

[senseamp]

You aren't really naive enough to believe the US had no hand in it? Main reason Georgia is trying to reoccupy Ossetia is because they cannot join NATO while they have a separatist conflict on their territory.
Plus their president is a US trained and supported puppet. Let's just say they weren't fighting for 10 years until this guy started stirring up the pot again.
To believe US had no involvement in this, you will have to believe that US military is dumb enough to be training with Georgian troops who were simultaneously preparing for an imminent invasion, and have no clue about it.

 

[DenisBoy]

Operation against South Ossetia was developed by the American military men
The event in South Ossetia shows ? aggression of the Georgian army goes under carefully developed plan, prevent which realisation only resolute reaction of Russia to last events can. However it is not necessary to create illusions concerning unexpectedly changed quality of the Tbilisi military men ? the operation plan on capture ??? has been developed not by them, and employees of the Pentagon still 13 years ago and for the first time ??????? on not recognised Republic Serbian ?????? (???), with 1991 for 1995 of present Croatia existing in territory. The destruction of thousand peace inhabitants and the ethnic cleanings arranged with "winners" became results of those events. The Russian citizens living in ???, without resolute intervention of Moscow the same fate waits.

Events around ??? remind defeat ??? even in details ? as well as then Croats, a present mode in Tbilisi of the beginnings «????????????» from a smaller part of disputed territory. In 1995 the first victim ???????? the Western Slavonia isolated from other territory ??? became Croatian, whose population and military power are quite comparable with ??????????????. Operation "Storm" has been begun on May, 1st, 1995: as the Croatian generals later told, the date choice was not casual ? calculation was under construction that Moscow, and other world, celebrating on May, 1st and preparing for celebrating of semicentenial anniversary of the Victory, not so will sharply react to an event. On the same logic Georgians operate also ? the full-scale beginning of war with ??? has coincided with opening of Olympic games on which ceremony also the prime minister of Russia Vladimir Putin, among other things, has gone.

Absolutely similarly Croatian and present behaviour of the Georgian management and military men ? as well as in a case with ???????, offers of an autonomy and the promise to spend amnesty for "separatists" are densely seasoned by shellings of inhabited quarters, bombardments of columns of refugees and capture of settlements. Has not changed for these years and the relation of aggressors to placed in a conflict zone to the international peacemakers ? as well as 13 years ago, on their bases and posts it is fired on defeat, and to contingent command ? in order to avoid "excesses" ? advise «not ?????????». As have shown events of spring-summer of 1995 in Croatia, any of these promises "winners" have not executed ? peacemakers, as well as now, killed in their own barracks, thousand killed peace inhabitants and ethnic cleanings became result of two operations on «????????????».

Thus, resulted above comparison unambiguously prove ? the Georgian armies operate the same as their Croatian colleagues in 1995 behaved. In this situation special interest cause those persons who has developed so universal plan on «???????????? the risen territories». As it has appeared, advisers at the Croatian Joint Staff during the period with 1993 for 1995 were retired generals of the USA John Gelvin (the former commander-in-chief of the American grouping in Europe), Charles Vuno (the former chief of a staff of land forces of the USA), James Lindzi (the former commander-in-chief of forces of a special purpose of army of the USA) and some more high-ranking in the past of "military pensioners». All of them were regular employees of company Military Professional Resources Incorporates (MPRI), engaged in rendering of services from area of military consulting. Easier speaking, it is a question of the hired strategists operating together with administration of the USA ? over coordination of work of group of generals in Zagreb John Svoul, the assistant on military questions of the then US State Secretary of Warren Christopher supervised.

However it is not necessary to think, that the given actions were made contrary to any of laws of the USA ? according to position of the internal instruction of Pentagon FM 100-20, the American military men have the right to rendering «of the necessary help in questions of internal defence to the allied state». Whether it is necessary to speak, what exactly employees MPRI which has concluded the contract with administration of Saakashvili, all these years were engaged in retraining of staff of the Georgian armed forces?

From told above it is possible to draw quite certain conclusion ? operation of the Georgian armies spent before our eyes against the citizens of Russia living in South Ossetia, it is developed not in Tbilisi, and in Washington. To avoid new victims, ethnic cleanings and full destabilization and without that fragile North Caucasus only resolute intervention in the conflict of Russia can ? otherwise already in the near future it is necessary to expect the beginning of the Georgian aggression to Abkhazia which consequences can become catastrophic.

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