,

[Pepsei]

georgia will probably pull from the olympics.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

I'm not saying that the Georgians or the Russians are in the right. They're both being retarded.

I do find it convenient however that Russia had strike aircraft and elements of their 58th Army (to included hundreds of heavy tanks) ready to roll into the area on such short notice.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

I'm not saying that the Georgians or the Russians are in the right. They're both being retarded.

I do find it convenient however that Russia had strike aircraft and elements of their 58th Army (to included hundreds of heavy tanks) ready to roll into the area on such short notice.

Georgia was amassing troops and conducting military exercises with US trainers in the area right before the invasion. Plus this is a volatile region for Russia in general, near Chechnya, and Beslan, which is in North Ossetia. It is absolutely not surprising to me that they had 58th army there. I was more surprised that it took them so long to launch aircraft to suppress Georgian forces shelling the capital. I think they were holding back so that the record would be clear that Georgia started this.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

I'm not saying that the Georgians or the Russians are in the right. They're both being retarded.

I do find it convenient however that Russia had strike aircraft and elements of their 58th Army (to included hundreds of heavy tanks) ready to roll into the area on such short notice.

Georgia was amassing troops and conducting military exercises with US trainers in the area right before the invasion. Plus this is a volatile region for Russia in general, near Chechnya, and Beslan, which is in North Ossetia. It is absolutely not surprising to me that they had 58th army there. I was more surprised that it took them so long to launch aircraft to suppress Georgian forces shelling the capital. I think they were holding back so that the record would be clear that Georgia started this.

US military advisers have been in Georgia for the past few years based on our closer ties and the expectation that they would be offered NATO membership this year. Even a cursory look at Georgia's military would dissuade anyone from thinking they they have the ambition to go toe to toe with the Russian army on their own initiative. Nor would the US ever support such action as it would be impossible to come to Georgia's aid in a meaningful way.

 

[judasmachine]

This troubles me, and I hope in the end cooler heads prevail. I know I'm not offering much to the discussion, but this just has me worried.

 

[fallenangel99]

Scary to think that tiny Georgia has, supposedly, knocked out 40 tanks and shot down 10 planes.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

I'm not saying that the Georgians or the Russians are in the right. They're both being retarded.

I do find it convenient however that Russia had strike aircraft and elements of their 58th Army (to included hundreds of heavy tanks) ready to roll into the area on such short notice.

Georgia was amassing troops and conducting military exercises with US trainers in the area right before the invasion. Plus this is a volatile region for Russia in general, near Chechnya, and Beslan, which is in North Ossetia. It is absolutely not surprising to me that they had 58th army there. I was more surprised that it took them so long to launch aircraft to suppress Georgian forces shelling the capital. I think they were holding back so that the record would be clear that Georgia started this.

US military advisers have been in Georgia for the past few years based on our closer ties and the expectation that they would be offered NATO membership this year. Even a cursory look at Georgia's military would dissuade anyone from thinking they they have the ambition to go toe to toe with the Russian army on their own initiative. Nor would the US ever support such action as it would be impossible to come to Georgia's aid in a meaningful way.

Russian military was prepared for Georgian actions, thankfully, otherwise Georgians would have succeeded in destroying a city full of civilians. But it's absolutely not surprising to me that Russians had troops ready in the area. Caucuses is the most volatile region of Russia, so they have a lot of troops stationed there anyways, plus most observers could see Georgia was preparing for action both in terms of amassing equipment and training on Ossetian border. I don't know why Saakashvili thought Russia would stay out. I think it's been made as clear as he could have been made that he would not be allowed to resolve this conflict militarily, especially not with the atrocity of shelling a city full of civilians in the middle of the night.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99
Scary to think that tiny Georgia has, supposedly, knocked out 40 tanks and shot down 10 planes.

Only according to Georgia though, not confirmed last I saw...

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
So Georgia decided to start a war on the day of the opening ceremony of the Olympics? Not that I like how Russia is flexing its muscles again (they looked at what Bush did and doesn't really care anymore), but isn't that an act of war? Why would a small country like Georgia pick a fight with Russia?

The history that spawned these problems between Georgia and the breakaway regions goes back a long way. Neither the Russians or Georgians have handled the situation really well.

It looks more like Putin is exploiting the situation as an expeditious way to curb further erosion of Russia's sphere of influence. Georgia was due to be offered NATO membership within the next year thus putting it out of reach.

Putin is now shaking the stick at Ukraine for the same reasons but there is no pretext there for military action and the Ukrainian military isn't a pushover.

Well yes, I don't know much about the history but I imagine that's the case. However, it was still Georgia who started the fighting.

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

I'm not saying that the Georgians or the Russians are in the right. They're both being retarded.

I do find it convenient however that Russia had strike aircraft and elements of their 58th Army (to included hundreds of heavy tanks) ready to roll into the area on such short notice.

Georgia was amassing troops and conducting military exercises with US trainers in the area right before the invasion. Plus this is a volatile region for Russia in general, near Chechnya, and Beslan, which is in North Ossetia. It is absolutely not surprising to me that they had 58th army there. I was more surprised that it took them so long to launch aircraft to suppress Georgian forces shelling the capital. I think they were holding back so that the record would be clear that Georgia started this.

US military advisers have been in Georgia for the past few years based on our closer ties and the expectation that they would be offered NATO membership this year. Even a cursory look at Georgia's military would dissuade anyone from thinking they they have the ambition to go toe to toe with the Russian army on their own initiative. Nor would the US ever support such action as it would be impossible to come to Georgia's aid in a meaningful way.

Russian military was prepared for Georgian actions, thankfully, otherwise Georgians would have succeeded in destroying a city full of civilians. But it's absolutely not surprising to me that Russians had troops ready in the area. Caucuses is the most volatile region of Russia, so they have a lot of troops stationed there anyways, plus most observers could see Georgia was preparing for action both in terms of amassing equipment and training on Ossetian border. I don't know why Saakashvili thought Russia would stay out. I think it's been made as clear as he could have been made that he would not be allowed to resolve this conflict militarily, especially not with the atrocity of shelling a city full of civilians in the middle of the night.

see earlier post:

Supposedly the South Ossetia separatists were attacking Georgian positions/personnel which re-ignited the conflict and led up to the Georgians shelling parts of the city. "Start" in the terms of this region is a very relative term.

The Russians now have loosed strategic bombers and missiles against military and civilian targets inside Georgia proper, attacked the main oil pipeline, and demolished the Black Sea terminus for one of them. Russian naval units are also closing in on the country to support Abkhazia's offensive which has now begun.

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

 

[senseamp]

Georgians were massing troops on Ossetian border. I don't buy for a second that they were attacked first, but even if they were, it would have been a justified preemptive strike in face of imminent invasion. Also, if Russians were targeting the pipeline, they would have hit it in multiple places and not missed. There is nothing stopping them from blowing it up to pieces right now. So that story does not make any sense either.
And yes, they are escalating it outside of Ossetia. Georgia should not assume that all action and damage will be contained to enemy territory if it launches an attack. It will have to pay a price too, hopefully heavy enough to teach it a lesson for a long time. Especially since it is launching shells and air raids from other areas of Georgia, those areas are fair game, and Georgian infrastructure that supports those actions are fair game too.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

Exactly, NATO and US in Kosovo set all the precedents Russia needs in this conflict, up to including recognition of Ossetian and Abkhazian independence. Russia was repeatedly ignored when it brought up the exact points being brought up by the West now, payback is a bitch.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

I suppose it might have been preferable to let Serbia systematically exterminate the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and risk the conflict spilling over into a still volatile region of the world that already had spawned one world war.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

I suppose it might have been preferable to let Serbia systematically exterminate the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and risk the conflict spilling over into a still volatile region of the world that already had spawned one world war.

There was no genocide, it was fabricated. It was merely a crackdown on a terrorist group that had been killing police officers.

It's besides the point anyways, an independent kosovo is doomed to failure. You can't run a legitimate country on trafficking drugs, arms, and people.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

I suppose it might have been preferable to let Georia systematically exterminate the ethnic Ossetians in North Ossetia and risk the conflict spilling over into a still volatile region of the world that already had spawned one war.

Fixed. Works just as well.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: K1052

They are escalating the conflict outside of the scope of the separatist area and in to general war between the two nations.

Kinda like how the US/NATO bombed all of Serbia during the kosovo conflict, huh?
Russia doesn't forget.

I suppose it might have been preferable to let Serbia systematically exterminate the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and risk the conflict spilling over into a still volatile region of the world that already had spawned one world war.

There was no genocide, it was fabricated. It was merely a crackdown on a terrorist group that had been killing police officers.

It's besides the point anyways, an independent kosovo is doomed to failure. You can't run a legitimate country on trafficking drugs, arms, and people.

The general idea was to run them out of the country by terror, the killings the Serbs staged worked to that end. Murdering a village full of people here and there to accomplish that wasn't beneath them.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: K1052


The general idea was to run them out of the country by terror, the killings the Serbs staged worked to that end. Murdering a village full of people here and there to accomplish that wasn't beneath them.

The KLA had killed ~1000 people in the year leading up to the action. You couldnt expect them to sit idly. There was no "murdering a village" here and there. There were only a few small scale incidents which are under some debate as to whether the people were civilians or rebels. The largest incident was racak, with 40-45 people.

And in the end, NATO killed a lot of serbian and albanian civilians. Using cluster bombs on civilian targets is very macho. You now have a soon to be failed-state, and 200k serbs displaced from their homes.

 

[Rebel44]

Could you please stay on topic ?????

 

[z0mb13]

since Georgia is a US alley, will US do anything about this?? bush is still in beijing for gods sake..

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
since Georgia is a US alley, will US do anything about this?? bush is still in beijing for gods sake..

If you want the world to be around longer than another week, I hope you want the US to stay out of this.


A direct conflict between Russia/US China/US China/Russia etc = Nuclear Winter.


In fact, this whole thing seriously scares the shit out of me. If this administration can do 1 fucking thing right, it will be to stay out of this conflict.

 

[Ballatician]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26...07/s/2/framenumber/10/

Edit: Just noticed the body to her right.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: senseamp

NATO just couldn't resist poking it with a stick.

Hey senseamp, why do you have such a raging hard-on for Russian military righteous justice? Do you have a pony in the race?

 

[DenisBoy]

ANALYTICAL PICTURE of DAY on August, 9th, 2008


Battle-field - "Open country"

"Under the message from sources in Tbilisi, operation of the Georgian armies on destruction of South Ossetia carried the code name« ?????? Conducted », that in transfer from the Georgian means« the Open country ». Curiously, what motives were at the Georgian strategists when they chose the name for the« the plan Barbarossa ». Whether what they were going to transform South Ossetia into the territory cleared of the Osset population?" - With such heading and the maintenance Osset radio and TV http://osradio.ru/this afternoon has acted. What it is possible to tell? - The extremely curious name. Which most likely also reflected an essence of the matter. Plans of Georgia and those who behind it stood and costs beads were simple, logical also - any forces to involve Russia in large-scale military operation. The second point of the plan put drawing of irreparable blow across South Ossetia. The purpose? It is rather simple - the same point the first, and the second - the territory control. If the mighty of this world of Russia would swallow this pill - it would be well, even better. Active campaign in under control mass-media, information war - on what also a teeth for a long time already has become skilled was ground off by "hawks" of the USA. All is simple and clear, to the ordinary.

We do not know you

So officials of the Pentagon in reply to evening requests of the help of Saakashvili have reacted. "The Georgian authorities did not address to the Pentagon with the request for the help in connection with events in South Ossetia. About it, informs AFP, the official representative of the American military department Bryan Uitman has declared on Friday. Thus he has confirmed, that the Pentagon is in contact to the authorities of Georgia and watches a situation in region as there there are American citizens. According to ???????, plans on a re-deployment of the American military and civil instructors staying now in territory of Georgia while is not present." Neither to add - nor to lower. Rigidly and ??????. We do not know you. A point.

The official representative of largest of American bank structures Morgan, and in combination US State Secretary Condoleeza Rice has given out to the surface the rigid statement. "The USA urge all parties of the conflict to stop immediately fire in the Georgian region South Ossetia", is spoken in the statement of the head of the American foreign policy department, promulgated on Friday late at night. " We urge Russia to stop rocket and aviabombardments of Georgia to respect territorial integrity of Georgia and to deduce the military divisions from the Georgian earth ", - has declared ????. The US State Secretary also has declared, that the world community should support the sovereignty of Georgia, its territorial integrity in frameworks is international recognised borders. ???. ???. All have rushed, erasing heels. To carry out it ???????????. That so madam Rajs was disturbed it was clear. Business was at all in the proud small Georgian people which were inflicted to inevitable punishment for the committed crimes. And business was that Georgia since recent times to please to Bush-younger greedy for any small flattery, has renamed itself into Georgia, conformable with similar American state. Evening and night reportings of leading American television channels have excited and without that the near American public. As there was at Vysotsky - "All absolutely from mind have gone mad, even who was mad" - here something was similar and in the State of Georgia. The people called in police, in 911, and in other services and were indignant, by what right Russian Ivan has entered the tanks into their favourite staff, were interested where these tanks are and when they will be beaten out by valorous American rangers.

 

[DenisBoy]

German newspapers have devoted on August, 8th the majority of comments to conflict escalation in South Ossetia.

Cologne newspaper Kölnische Rundschau writes:

Georgia aggressively reacts on wilful "world maintenance with military means" official Moscow in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As a result the situation becomes aggravated in one of the most explosive corners of the world. Here not simply in a new fashion cut a map. The numerous people in this region have so mixed up, that consequences of any aggression accept scale character. Saakashvili tries to involve in the conflict of the USA, Europe and NATO on the party of Georgia. Behind the back of South Ossetia - "the big brother" Russia. As a result there can be a new front between the East and the West.

Newspaper Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung marks:

If Michael Saakashvili fulfils the promise and will really put under a gun of ten thousand Georgian reservists, on caucasus new bloody war will begin. In it will lose all. On international scene the conflict will poison atmosphere even in the event that he will not outgrow in long military opposition.

And one of the main originators of present events - Michael Saakashvili who corrects Georgia more as the adventurer than as the statesman. And now also the Georgian involves in military adventure which can end for them with full accident.