20X DVD Burners!!

[Bozo Galora]

Looks like DVD is still truckin'

http://cdrlabs.com/#4168

 

[Bobthelost]

The difference between x16 and x20 will be negligable, the line you should be looking at in that is "the more profitable". Ie they make more money out of us.

Not a bad thing by any means, but rather irrelevant to my life

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I still burn DVD's at 4X using a 16X burner.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I still burn DVD's at 4X using a 16X burner.

Why?

 

[mb]

I guess it will be nice for new builders if they are priced the same as current 16x burners.. $40 or so. I can't see many people with 16x burners wanting to upgrade unless they do a whole lot of DVD burning.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I still burn DVD's at 4X using a 16X burner.

Why?

possibly because his burner makes a lot of errors when burning at 16X. mine's the same way, i can't burn at above 8x speed or the disc won't be useable. same with my CDRW drive, except the speed is 12x.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: guoziming

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I still burn DVD's at 4X using a 16X burner.

Why?

possibly because his burner makes a lot of errors when burning at 16X. mine's the same way, i can't burn at above 8x speed or the disc won't be useable. same with my CDRW drive, except the speed is 12x.

What drive? Personally, I'd return a 16x DVD if I could not burn greater than 4x or even 8x, assuming my drive throughput was not the cause.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I've actually never even tried to burn faster than 6X. I guess I could and then run a tool to check for errors.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: guoziming

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I still burn DVD's at 4X using a 16X burner.

Why?

possibly because his burner makes a lot of errors when burning at 16X. mine's the same way, i can't burn at above 8x speed or the disc won't be useable. same with my CDRW drive, except the speed is 12x.

What drive? Personally, I'd return a 16x DVD if I could not burn greater than 4x or even 8x, assuming my drive throughput was not the cause.

i'm using a crap memorex external burner. it actually only burns max at 8x and dual layers at 16x, but I still burn DVDs at 2.4x. runs through USB 2.0, but we got it for cheap on a black friday deal so i dont worry. we also don't have very many DVDs so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

Exactly. Get a quality burner and quality media and you'll be fine burning at 16X. The problem people have burning at high speeds is because they have crap media.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

Exactly. Get a quality burner and quality media and you'll be fine burning at 16X. The problem people have burning at high speeds is because they have crap media.

my question to those who burn @16x from files(4gb or more) is amt of time from click "Burn/Go" to finalize ?

 

[TSCrv]

ive had problems with burning at higher speeds with every drive except my NEC, i can burn at full speed, and only 1 coaster (due to power failure)... time for me to get the 3550 instead of the 3520 im using....

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: ScrapSilicon

my question to those who burn @16x from files(4gb or more) is amt of time from click "Burn/Go" to finalize ?

I think 6:30 or so.

 

[jackschmittusa]

I burn at 16x with both an NEC and a BenQ. I am not tempted to upgrade.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: ScrapSilicon

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

Exactly. Get a quality burner and quality media and you'll be fine burning at 16X. The problem people have burning at high speeds is because they have crap media.

my question to those who burn @16x from files(4gb or more) is amt of time from click "Burn/Go" to finalize ?

I think 6:30 or so.

2.4x = 22 minutes or so.. 4x = 13-14 minutes or so .. 8x = 8.25-9minutes or so .. 12x = 6:45-7.25 minutes or so .. 16x = 6:30 or so .. obviously 16x isn't actually 16x timewise ..its why I and a few others will burn @4x/6x/8x to get a more quality result ; easier to burn @ slightly longer time than to spend that time scanning the resulting disc ) ..have burned quite a few @ 16x but for readability(is that a word?) generally slower burns (also applies to CDRs) usually result in better compatability with other optical readers ..

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

Exactly. Get a quality burner and quality media and you'll be fine burning at 16X. The problem people have burning at high speeds is because they have crap media.

It's still not a good idea to burn "good media" @ 16x. Trust me. I read CDFreaks enough and I look at those blank media test graphs, and thank goodness someone here knows that Taiyo Yuden is the best, but you will see most people still burn around 8x because the errors are a LOT less.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

I've got a 16x NEC and burn at 16X all the time. Never had a problem reading in either a computer or a stand alone DVD. But whatever makes you happy.

Exactly. Get a quality burner and quality media and you'll be fine burning at 16X. The problem people have burning at high speeds is because they have crap media.

It's still not a good idea to burn "good media" @ 16x. Trust me. I read CDFreaks enough and I look at those blank media test graphs, and thank goodness someone here knows that Taiyo Yuden is the best, but you will see most people still burn around 8x because the errors are a LOT less.

Sure, if we are talking mission critical backups (but then you would not use DVD-R anyway). But for DVD copies and such, who cares if there are some errors? Error correcting is built-in and I personally can not think of any DVD that I've burned in the last 6 months that was affected by any errors.

 

[Tostada]

Don't you find it a little suspicious that DVD-ROM drives never made it to 20X, but now they're claiming you'll be able to burn at 20X?

CD/DVD media really shouldn't be spinning at more than 10,000 RPM, and DVDs are better off not spinning as fast as CDs. A 52X max (20.8X min) CD-ROM has to spin at a constant 10,400 RPM. A 16X max (6X min) DVD-ROM spins at a constant 9,200 RPM. 18X DVD-ROM is 10,300 RPM, and a few half-assed attempts have been made at 18X DVD drives, but I don't think any reputable company is still attempting to make them.

Even expensive media just isn't supposed to be spinning that fast. Anything that claims to be more than 6X min or 16X max is pretty suspect.

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I feel the burns are better off at a slow speed, I'd rather take a little more time if it reduces the number errors. To me it's no problem waiting 15 min.

Your "feeling" could be wrong... it is often the case that burning overly slowly actually gives you lower quality burns.

High-speed media is intended for high-speed burns. As long as you're burning at 4X it's probably not a problem. Burning at 1X or 2X with high-speed media can definitely give you lower quality burns. Still, there's no reason not to burn at at least 6X since every drive can do 6X CLV, and these days drives are all thesed and optimized assuming you're just going to be selecting max speed.

People who burned CDs at 1X thinking they would get better quality were usually wrong. This is more true with DVDs because high-speed DVD media actually uses different dye.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
It's still not a good idea to burn "good media" @ 16x. Trust me. I read CDFreaks enough and I look at those blank media test graphs, and thank goodness someone here knows that Taiyo Yuden is the best, but you will see most people still burn around 8x because the errors are a LOT less.

I'm certainly not going to trust you. The data at places like CDRLabs just doesn't agree with you. The quality of the media and the quality of the burner is extremely important. The speed you write at is several orders of magnitude less important.

Look at burn quality with a TY or Verbatim media on most Plextor/Pioneer/NEC drives. For the most part, errors are so low burning at 16X that it can be chalked up to variance. Now look at what you get from Optodisc or cheaper Ritek media. Those are the kinds of errors that mean the disc might be unreadable a year from now.

I burn at lot of things at 6X, but that's just because 6X is the highest CLV speed, it still burns in 10 min, and the drive never has to chance speeds and do its linking thing. Even that's not really a good reason, though.

I've cranked out hundreds of TY DVD-Rs at 16X and never had a single error reading any of them back a year later, no matter who's playing them. Lately I've had better results with 16X DVD-Rs than with store-bought discs -- I've actually run into several cases where an pressed disc would skip on a few players but a TY copy plays fine. I've also made about 250 Ritek discs which I burned at 1X, 2X and 4X, and they have serious problems after a couple years. Many are unusable, and the ones that are readable are only readable in a high-quality DVD-ROM.

 

[Looney]

16x to 20x is a very small increase, i doubt you'll really even notice it.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Tostada

Originally posted by: DLeRium
It's still not a good idea to burn "good media" @ 16x. Trust me. I read CDFreaks enough and I look at those blank media test graphs, and thank goodness someone here knows that Taiyo Yuden is the best, but you will see most people still burn around 8x because the errors are a LOT less.

I'm certainly not going to trust you. The data at places like CDRLabs just doesn't agree with you. The quality of the media and the quality of the burner is extremely important. The speed you write at is several orders of magnitude less important.

Look at burn quality with a TY or Verbatim media on most Plextor/Pioneer/NEC drives. For the most part, errors are so low burning at 16X that it can be chalked up to variance. Now look at what you get from Optodisc or cheaper Ritek media. Those are the kinds of errors that mean the disc might be unreadable a year from now.

I burn at lot of things at 6X, but that's just because 6X is the highest CLV speed, it still burns in 10 min, and the drive never has to chance speeds and do its linking thing. Even that's not really a good reason, though.

I've cranked out hundreds of TY DVD-Rs at 16X and never had a single error reading any of them back a year later, no matter who's playing them. Lately I've had better results with 16X DVD-Rs than with store-bought discs -- I've actually run into several cases where an pressed disc would skip on a few players but a TY copy plays fine. I've also made about 250 Ritek discs which I burned at 1X, 2X and 4X, and they have serious problems after a couple years. Many are unusable, and the ones that are readable are only readable in a high-quality DVD-ROM.

I never said media doesn't make a huge difference. It does. I have graphs showing TY media vs CMC vs. fake TY media, and the difference is astounding.

I'm not talkinga bout errors as in you pop it back in and see if the data plays back. I'm talking about the DVD burn quality with a scan. I run scans occasionally of my own discs. I have done tests of burning at 1x, 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x and 12x, and you definitely get better burn quality at lower speeds.

Whether its TY or not, you will see that corellation. Given that TY discs are damn good, you won't have too much of an issue at 16x, but burning at 8x is still better. Riteks aren't that bad either. Better than CMC discs at least.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Tostada
CD/DVD media really shouldn't be spinning at more than 10,000 RPM, and DVDs are better off not spinning as fast as CDs. A 52X max (20.8X min) CD-ROM has to spin at a constant 10,400 RPM. A 16X max (6X min) DVD-ROM spins at a constant 9,200 RPM. 18X DVD-ROM is 10,300 RPM, and a few half-assed attempts have been made at 18X DVD drives, but I don't think any reputable company is still attempting to make them.

Plextor has their 18X drive out and from what i remember, the reviews were pretty good.

 

[Bozo Galora]

I also used to think slower meant better.
But all current burners use kind of an artificial intelligence to create a write strategy for each media and store it in non volatile memory, using media MID to catalogue
I always make 6 or 7 DVD test discs in Nero with my fav media before I burn anything I need. on a brand new burner.
I am running 2 Pioneer 111d's in my latest rig, and I always burn at 16X, and the error rates are extremely good.
Just look at these PI PIF readouts.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/270/5
All you have to do is look at results for various media in a review for your burner model and buy what suits your needs/whats available.

However noticed lately that Made In Japan Fujifilm (TY) seems to have gone bye bye - they have these new silver labeled cakeboxes.
Guess I'll have to switch to Mitsubishi or Verbatim, I dont like the silver finish of TY branded TY.
Hopefully TY +R 16X will appear in US soon. (I dont use -R)